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Author Topic: Magic Maple stain  (Read 1152 times)

Offline pintail_drake2004

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Magic Maple stain
« on: March 18, 2009, 09:39:30 PM »
Hello gents. I know i am prolly getting a lil bit ahead of myself, but i have not been around for the last few days and i need to get my "fix." This site is the best!

Has anyone here used the Magic Maple stain from Pecatonica? I love the dark stains on maple. I am not new to staining (i have literally stained millions of board feet of lumber in my 23 short years here) so mixing is no concern. How do ya like that stain? What sealer works best with it? I have never heard of it before, but absolutely love the photo of the rifle on the back of their book that was done with Magic Maple.
I would really appreciate some pix if anyone has any.  

thanks
Pintail

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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 09:48:46 PM »
cant help you with that particular stain, i use Aqua fortis on figured maple
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Offline jbullard1

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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 09:59:07 PM »
Pintail
if you have a scrap of your stock try it and see if you like it
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Offline pintail_drake2004

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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 10:06:50 PM »
ya i have plenty of scrap to practice on, but i was hoping to see some pix.

Offline cb

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 12:10:30 AM »
WARNING! IMO do not use Magic Maple unless you want your wood to turn green over time - plus it is VERY dangerous to work with...
MM stain is chromium trioxide and every old time maker I know that has used it has horror stories about stocks turning green on them  

THE period correct stain for maple is what is known as aquafortis aka ferric nitrate or a mix of ferric nitrate and ferric chloride - you can get the crystals from science supply houses and mix them up or just order some pre-made from Mike Lea....
WAHKON BAY AQUAFORTIS—2 oz. $8.95.
Continental U.S. ground shipping only.
MICHAEL LEA AND DAUGHTER
2109 Summit Street
Columbus OH 43201
Telephone 614-291-4757

AF is still a toxic mix, but less dangerouse than CT - AF is actually a chemical reagent the iron salt(s) react with the tannins in the wood to produce not only color, but an opalescence in the wood that is like nothing else especially when followed up with a period linseed oil based varnish

used properly here are some examples - these were all stained with AF and then finished with my own homemade pure linseed oil and rosin varnish...and these pictures are no way near as good as seeing them in person....







Another appropriate finish is Jim Chambers Oil Finish available from Chambers FDlintlocks.......
Chuck Burrows aka Grey Wolf

Offline jtwodogs

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Stain
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 06:50:02 AM »
Here is Wyosmith's method, I think I copied it from the gun build tutorial, but it may have been somewere else he had it posted for us to use, and his guns sure are purty.

Maple needs to be stained. I first make up a “wash stain” out of brown water soluble die that I buy from Brownells. It’s mixed with water and is thin enough to make a color, but that color on the wood is about 1/4 as dark as I want for the final finish.

I sand the stock down to 400 grit. Then I put on the wash coat of this stain, and let it dry. Water, as you know, will raise the grain, the "whiskers", and the light color will draw your attention to every little flaw in your sanding. That kills 2 birds with one stone.

So go back to 320 grit paper and sand out every little flaw you can see, and then sand the whole stock again so it‘s smooth and there are no whiskers left.

Now do the whole process again!

After a few of these cycles, you will find the wood doesn’t whisker anymore, and that you can’t find any flaws to correct.

When you are sure that it’s ready, put on your dark stain. I like the Laurel Mountain Forge stains, but you can use any that you like.
( A word of caution here:
NEVER USE ANY OIL BASED STAINS ON FIGURED MAPLE. ALWAYS USE ALCOHOL OR WATER BASED STAINS)

When the stain is dry, steel wool it back with 0000 wool, and your ready for oil.

Here’s where I use 2 oils.

Mix some boiled Linseed oil 50/50 with paint thinner and wet down the stock inside and out. Make it WET! So it’s dripping and running,, and keep it wet for at least 10 minutes. If the oil soaks in, add more, so it’s dripping wet.

After 10 minutes take a paper towel and dry it off. Now set it in the sun for 3 days in a window. Turn it every day, 2 times, so the sunlight can cure the oil.

After 3 days steel wool it off again with 0000 wool.

Now take your low gloss Tung Oil and spread a very thin coat on the stock. Do this every day for 3 days and then steel wool it back to even out the finish. Put on another very thin coat and another and so on, steel wooling every 3 coats until the finish is perfect.

If your wood is very hard, I find that you will usually be done after the first 3 coats, one steel wooling, and one more coat.

If the wood is less hard, it will take more oil. Just rub it back a bit to even things out every 3 coats, and keep the process going until it’s done. Your own eyes will tell you when that is.

Now.......... the reason for the way I do all this;

If you go to Tung as a sealing coat, the stock will be beautiful, but if you ever scratch it and need to touch it up you are in trouble. You see, Tung is such a good sealer that even wood alcohol won’t go through it. So you’d sand out a small spot and go get your stain. You’d put the stain on the repair, and you’ll get only about half the color to penetrate the wood. It just won’t get through the Tung.

If you seal with linseed oil, you can cut through it to the repair, and the stain goes through like it was tissue paper. You get a good color match and you re-seal with 50/50 Linseed and paint thinner.
Just use the same process on the repair that you used on the whole stock, and when you are done you yourself can’t find the repair. It will be a perfect match.
This is a gun finish for rifleman, and not just collectors. This finish is VERY weather resistant and tough, and it’s repairable
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Offline Mike R

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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 11:33:55 AM »
Basically I agree with cb who warns against CrO3 stains; however, I have been told that there is a way to use them without the 'greening' over time--many guns did turn green over time! below is a rifle made in 1974 that I am pretty sure used CrO3 stain yet has only the faintest trace of green tints [you cannot see in photo].
Ch Mbr#53 ,dues in Feb

Offline Riley/MN

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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 03:39:28 PM »
Man, that's a beauty, Mike.

I remember walkin in to TOW and looking at rifles and asking if they was s'posed to be green like that...

Looked like somebody was tryin ta do a camo job on a flinter...:lol
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Offline Billd

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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 09:14:38 PM »
Real Aqua Fortis made from nitric acid and iron. Nothing else added. Easy to make and easy to use.   Just remember to neutralize.

For use on maple and ash, may turn cherry and walnut black.

Bill

Offline pintail_drake2004

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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 01:32:22 AM »
thanks gents for the help!

Offline Kermit

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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 11:50:10 AM »
I would add this to Jack's post. Paint thinner is a general term. There's "mineral spirits" and there's "turpentine." I only use TURPENTINE to thin/cut boiled linseed oil.

I consider mineral spirits to be brush cleaner.
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Offline Wyoming Mike

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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 07:56:08 AM »
Quote from: "Mike R"
Basically I agree with cb who warns against CrO3 stains; however, I have been told that there is a way to use them without the 'greening' over time--many guns did turn green over time! below is a rifle made in 1974 that I am pretty sure used CrO3 stain yet has only the faintest trace of green tints [you cannot see in photo].

The only way I have found to stop the greening from Chromium Trioxide stain is to put a red maple stain over the trioxide after it has browned the wood.  The wood looks a little red until the trioxide starts greening up then it turns a nice brown and much of the red goes away.  I really like the way Sodium Dichromate brings out the figure in the wood but when it reduces down to the Chromium Trioxide state, which is the green color, it looks a little nasty.

I still have a CVA rifle and pistol that I used Sodium Dichromate on with a Colonial Red overcoat on and they have nice red brown finishes.  The pistol has a streak of green where I missed with the red stain.  The old stock on the rifle had greened up quite a bit and that's what made me try the red overcoat on the new stock.  The rifle stock is going good after thirty years and the pistol after twenty five.
Love the smell of black powder in the morning
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Offline pintail_drake2004

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 09:28:37 PM »
wyoming mike: would u happen to have a picture handy of the gun you are talking about? That sounds interesting.

Offline Wyoming Mike

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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 10:28:04 AM »
This is the Mountain Rifle that I used Sodium Dichromate on with an overcoat of Colonial Red.



The stock was a lot redder for the first couple of years but has mellowed out to a nice shade.  I don't have a picture of the green streak on the pistol.  The pistol itself is the second one down.  The one above it had the same treatment but I got everything covered.

Love the smell of black powder in the morning
Smells like fun.