Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: mark davidson on March 05, 2009, 02:00:20 PM
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I got a fowler coming soon. Can I use shotcups to hold the shot? I mean, do I just get some proper guage shotcups like I use for shotgun shell reloading and put the shot in them and drop them in on top of a felt over powder wad and top it all off with a shot card to hold it all down?? Is that how it is done?? I have read here about how to do it without shot cups. Some say the shotcups will melt and ruin or mess up my barrel. Others seem to think the shotcup is a good way to get good patterns. I need some info and some education here before my toy arrives. Help please?? How do I load a fowler????
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I think you should stick to the old ways. Don't put plastic in your barrel. It makes a mess.
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Mark...Remember that this is from someone with no great amount of smoothie/shot experience :(
I'm sure one of the real shooters will happen by in a short while, and we can both learn from them...
Al
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The modern cup is made to fit inside of the shell, not to be close to bore size.
I have to take exception Al. The inside of the shell IS the bore size... The shell won't fit in the bore, but the cup/wad/whatever- guts-is-in-yore-shell does fit the bore.
Now all that being sed-I wouldn't (& don't) use plastic in the bore. I tried the two-part things that CVA marketed, but won't try plastic agin... :shake
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There is a co. that will supply you with the proper size cup to fit your fowler ,"but" i can't remember the name.As was said you can roll your qwn from paper. If you are going to use other yhan lead shot (for waterfowl) the shot cup will help protect the bore from the harder alloy steel shot. If you use a commercial shot cup (plastic) you'll only need an over powder wad as the cup has a built in cushion.
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To clarify, my interest in the plastic shot cup is two fold. One I have read that it improves pattern. Secondly, just as Gordy said, I want to shoot some steel at ducks and wish to protect the bore with the shot cup. Where can I get some fiber cups or how can I safely use the plastic ones without melting them in the bore and making the "mess."
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mark, I don't think melting is going to take place in a muzzleloader anyquicker than in a cartridge using smokeless powder. but a certain amount of plastic will "rub off" each time one is used. Over a period of time there will be a build-up. there are solvents available that desolve plastic , copper and lead. With cylinder bores the chance of splitting the muzzle is hardly a problem but if there is ANY choke at all there is a great strain put on the last few inches of barrel. the steel shot will NOT deform and wedges itself against the other pellets and the bore.
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FWIW, most of my experience with BP and plastic wads has been doing cowboy action shooting, but I have done a fair bit shooting muzzleloading shotguns with plastic wads or shotcups.
The bad news is plastic wads shot with BP leave WAY more plastic fouling in the bore than the same wads shot with smokeless. Theory is the BP is melting the base of the wad where the smokeless doesn't. When cleaning my CAS shotguns after less than two boxes of BP loads I get long strings of plastic fouling. I have to shoot 1000 rounds of smokeless to get noticeable plastic buildup and that's at the choke in guns with screw in chokes. (I shoot a lot of skeet, too.)
The good news is the plastic doesn't adhere to the bore like it does with smokeless. It comes right out with normal soap and water cleaning.
More good news. You can prevent it altogether if you protect the base of the plastic shotcup with a fiber wad.
If you're going to shoot steel shot, you need to use shotcups designed for steel.
You can improve patterns to a certain degree with plastic wads. The same principals apply as with smokeless, the cups protect the shot from deformation by the barrel walls and the cushion section protects the shot from setback deformation. Just don't expect to turn a cylinder bore gun into a long range fowler.
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Thanks to all, especially biliff for the experienced advice. I will at least try the fowler both ways and see which is handier and which patterns best. If a felt cushion wad will prevent the plastic fowling then I see no reason no to use it in a hunting load for turkeys or whatever. On the other hand if standard loading practices work just as well then I will stick to that.
Just for "in case" what kind of solvent will break down the plastic and clean it out of the barrel if I do get plastic fowling? What do you guys use? soap and water, alchohol, gasoline, .....????
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I want to shoot some steel at ducks
Well the steel wads are a bit different than the basic reloading wads. I have tried AA and Remington plain wads, and they do melt. FYI soap and water, NOT! That's a function of the smoothness of the barrels, so in the previous post, your ability to remove plastic wll be directly related to the smoothness of the interior of the ML barrel. If soap and water worked that person was indeed fortunate.
Second, there is a big dif between using a BP shell in a breech loader, and ramming a load past plastic fouling. Knock some of that fouling loose with the ramrod movement down and back, and you may have a barrel obstruction. (Use a felt wad to protect the shot cups is again, a very good idea.)
Solvents..., original Hoppe's #9 had Benzine, which would melt the plastic in one swipe, which is how it made its name...., but Benzine causes cancer, so OOOPS, but they refomulated it after the use of BP and Cordite had dropped off in sporting shells so the lack of the Benzine didn't hurt the product so much. I tried copper, I tried bronze, and I tried steel brushes on my shotgun, the plastic was still there. Finally I had a chemist friend who had given me an vintage bottle of Hoppe's, and (when I found where I had put it in my basement) I got the plastic out. Best is to avoid the plastic fouling all together.
LD
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LD, Thanks for the input. I too am completely out of the old Hoppes #9. Boy the smell of that stuff does bring back memories! :-)
I wonder....if you had some plastic fouling, would shooting a few loads of shot without the plastic cup i.e. the more traditional load maybe scrape out or clean out the plastic fouling?? (I promise I am not being hard headed here, just gathering all the information possible. :-)