Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Craftsmanship => Clothing and Other Crafts => Topic started by: wwpete52 on November 16, 2008, 02:59:36 PM

Title: brogan?
Post by: wwpete52 on November 16, 2008, 02:59:36 PM
I always wore moccasins when I was a mountain man and colonial buckle shoes as a 1760's guy.  Now that I am back to doing the mountain man I'm thinking about loosing the moccasins. My old feet don't like 'em any longer.  What about brogans? I know that they had them back then. Do any of you wear brogans while being the mountain man?
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Post by: rollingb on November 16, 2008, 03:34:51 PM
Actually Pete, I've had the same thoughts run through my mind, several times. I've never pursued it, and I'm still in mocs, but that might change as I get (even) older. :)
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Post by: Loyalist Dave on November 16, 2008, 05:03:41 PM
Well the Civil War Brogan was really a post fur trade style shoe, similar to the Jefferson, and that was similar to the Hi-low.  In truth, the three are so similar I'd have to have them side by side and labeled to tell which was which, so I don't know who'd give you any hassle for the "wrong" footwear, eh??  I have Fugawee hi-lows, and I had a second sole put on them so I could have them properly hobnailed.  They make a big dif in ankle support as well as when walking on gravel.  The hobnails make a nice crunching noise when several in a group of soldiers march into town (all that's missing is music from The Empire Strikes Back).  

LD
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Post by: Mike Ameling on November 16, 2008, 07:09:47 PM
One gentleman (der Fett Duetsman) found a surprising resemblence between a Confederate "Blucher" shoe offered by the Missouri Boot Company and a 1790's German boot/shoe in contemporary paintings.  Check it out at
http://missouribootandshoe.tripod.com/id10.htm (http://missouribootandshoe.tripod.com/id10.htm) a little over half way down the page.  European paintings and context, but ...

And they also carry variations of that Jefferson Bootee.  Yes, they mostly sell to Civil War people, but so much of the CW stuff was from earlier times.  I've been contemplating a pair for late 1700's upper Mississippi River and Great Lakes fur trade era events.  Just have to scrounge up the funds - while still beating back the wolves scratching at the back door!

Just something to consider.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
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Post by: Bigsmoke on November 16, 2008, 11:27:41 PM
Another thing that you might want to consider is a simple pair of half Wellington boots with the round toe.  Leather sole and heels would make it even better.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on November 16, 2008, 11:35:19 PM
Whites boots sells a semi dress half boot that closely resembles a brogan and I tried a pair on a couple weeks ago when I was in their shop in Spokane dropping off a pair of packers to be rebuilt, needed it after 8 years of use, they are a bit spendy, but you get the legendary whites quality and they are totally rebuildable at half the original price, and... they are built to fit your foot! see their website for how they measure and such, might as well have the best if you can swing it!
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 17, 2008, 12:47:52 AM
I looked at the Whites Boots website.  Way out of my price range! They look like super quality though.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on November 17, 2008, 12:59:44 AM
If a pair of $100.00 work boots last me a year its a miracle, if I can get 6 years of constant wearing out of a pair of $385.00 boots its a win win, especially when there made for my foot and fit like a glove, they are spendy, wait till you look at the prices at fugawee! and their 1/4 the quality of whites!
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 17, 2008, 02:30:08 AM
I can appreciate that but sometimes a guy can only part with only so much $ at a time or do without.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on November 17, 2008, 12:09:20 PM
I can understand that pete! just stating some facts, hope ya find what your looking for, Beav
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Post by: Uncle Russ on November 17, 2008, 04:24:19 PM
Pete mentioned the fact that his feet don't get along all that well with moccasions any longer, and this is something I can appreciate.

Back in my younger days, I loved 'em...I wore mooccasion type "Desert Boots"...with the fancy little concho on the side, and I wore them every where I went, for years....Of course I didn't wear 'em while on duty, but that was definately my off duty shoe.

Now, fast forward 30 years and you will see a fellow getting older, gaining weight, and needing more support in his footware.
My feet are a great deal more tender, they are also swollen a great deal of the time, and my ankles practically scream for some kind of support....

Brogans, or low cut boots, have been a blessing for this old boy for years now. I suspect brogans may be at least somewhat PC, depending on cut or style, but that is no longer important.
What is important is being able to get around safely, and without discomfort.
And, I personally feel absolutely safe in saying this trumps anything PC.

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 17, 2008, 04:27:39 PM
Well put Uncle Russ!
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Post by: LightSeeker on November 18, 2008, 09:17:28 PM
Russ,
   I bought a set of brogans back when I was thinking of doing some CW reenacting, but it never came to pass.  I have found them to be a bit slick on grass- Suggestions?????
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 19, 2008, 06:45:23 AM
I've got it! You could attach football cleats to them!  :lol:
Actually, I wonder if hobnails and heel rims would help on grass?  I know that they are dangerous on concrete but they might act like cleats on grass.  Does anyone have any experience using them?
Here's what they look like:
http://missouribootandshoe.tripod.com/id7.html (http://missouribootandshoe.tripod.com/id7.html)
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Post by: Loyalist Dave on November 19, 2008, 08:34:57 AM
As an expert in hobnails and heel plates....., does falling down alot make you an expert?...., anyway, hobnails are fine on most concrete, asphalt, and grass.  In fact they are better than slick soles in grass.  They will mess up hardwood floors, so most historic homes don't like you to have them on inside.  

Hobnails and heal plates are not so good on cobblestones, slippery rocks in steams, and SUCK ON LINOLEUM.  I mean they are like standing barefoot on a layer of hydrolic fluid on glass when using hobnails on linoleum.    

I also have a pair of colonial shoes with modern no slip soles added, and partial metal heal plates.  You still get the proper crunching noise in a military shoe, but you don't kamikazi so much when going into the supermarket as you do with hobnails.

LD
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Post by: Captchee on November 19, 2008, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: "LightSeeker"
Russ,
   I bought a set of brogans back when I was thinking of doing some CW reenacting, but it never came to pass.  I have found them to be a bit slick on grass- Suggestions?????

 dont know much about Brogans  bit i know with my corframs  that i had in the service " read as highly polished dress shoes used for  dress blue events
 The bottom  were  so slick you couldn’t stand  with any frost on the  grass .
So what we did was sipe the bottoms  of the soles  to  give alittle traction .

 I whould also agree with beaver man about Whites . IMO no better boots
I have 3 pairs and only one has warn out .
 That was a set of Jump boots that  I bought  long, long ago .
they have seen mile after mile . took me half way around the world and back again .

 I have two pair of heavy work boots , both have to be maybe 20??25 years old . One the soles are just about gone on, I bout them though used at a yard sale for 5 bucks .
 The 3rd pair is the one I wear all the time  while hunting ,fishing , hiking . Anytime im not im mocs or  my tennis shoes  that I need for work . I seem to recall I paid right at 200 for them in 1988? Realistically , I think probably they are the last pair of boots ill ever have to buy
  IMO there simply is no better boot  on the market
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Post by: Mike Ameling on November 19, 2008, 09:28:20 AM
A few people have been using those tie-on ice creepers to help solve the "slick sole" sleighride - on their shoes, boots, brogans, and even mocs.  But they do tear up modern floors, and can hurt your arch in your foot when walking on cement/aslphalt/cobblestones/rocks.  If those points don't poke down into what you are walking on, then you will be walking on top of those ice creepers.

But you really need to get them made to fit what you are wearing.  Too tight and they will rub your feet.  Too loose, and they will twist/slide/shift on you.  Tricky to get that "good fit".  And keep them laced/buckled on tight.

They aren't the ... cure all ... that so many people think they will be.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
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Post by: Uncle Russ on November 19, 2008, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: "LightSeeker"
Russ,
   I bought a set of brogans back when I was thinking of doing some CW reenacting, but it never came to pass.  I have found them to be a bit slick on grass- Suggestions?????

I don't know of anything that you can do "after the fact"....the shoes that I buy, in this catagory, are normally not very expensive and if I should find out that I made a bad decision on selecting the soles, I toss 'em....my boots are a different story.
If memory serves me right, this has only occured on two occasions with shoes, and both times it was my fault for not reading the box or making a good visual check of the soles before buying.
The old saying that, "a good deal may be only in the stores favor" can certainly become fact when it comes to buying footware.

My budget has never been such that I can afford the real high end of footware, a pair of Red Wings is really "splurging" and Hermans is more in line of reality for this ol'boy.

Russ...
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Post by: Craig Tx on November 19, 2008, 09:13:21 PM
Up until recently I've been wearing mainly the Fugawee Hi-lo's.

But a coupla months ago I bought a pair of Robert Land Hi-lo's from Najecki Reproductions, and I love 'em.   :rt th

Still breakin' 'em in but they're a fine boot.

Craig
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 20, 2008, 09:26:56 PM
OK, here's a photo of the ones I ordered.  I bought them from Blockade Runner.  They are the black rough outs.  They were not the cheapest I could find but they were also not the most expensive either. I paid $79.99 for them.  Crescent City had a pair for $55 but they kind of looked cheap. So what do you think?  Did I screw up?
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/wwpete52/brogans.jpg)
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Post by: wwpete52 on November 25, 2008, 09:55:46 PM
The brogans came today. I was suprised to see that they already had steel heel plates installed.  The shoes seem to be very well made.
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Post by: Three Hawks on December 04, 2008, 05:22:42 PM
I dunno if these things are still on/for sale or not, but I bought two pairs.  They look for all the world like a Jefferson bootie.  The soles have white stitching that responds well to a bit of Black shoe polish as to the sides of the soles. The soles seem to be a pva foam and have traction on most surfaces I've walked on.  With my bionic knees and bad back, they've been a Godsend.

http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.a ... 1Prod=True (http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?ItemID=148e768&ItemTyp=G&GrpTyp=PRD&ShowMenu=T&ShopBy=0&SearchString=chukka+boot&RefPage=SearchDepartment.aspx&CmCatId=SearchResults&Search1Prod=True)

Good Luck,

Three Hawks
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Post by: wwpete52 on December 04, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
Wow! Those do look like a Jefferson bootie!
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Post by: wwpete52 on December 04, 2008, 10:26:55 PM
One thing that has me concerned about the brogans in slipping around.  I use to slide once in a while when I had the colonial shoes.  I wonder if I should put hobnails on the soles?  Now that I'm an old guy I really don't want to fall down.  I fell on my ass a couple of days ago when I went out to the barn wearing some slip on shoes.  There was some frost on the ground. It didn't feel so good. I think the shoes that Three Hawk just bought are a good idea.  Ain't period correct a bitch sometimes? There's a guy on ebay that sells great looking moosehide moccasins from the sole up but they have rubber soles.  I almost bought a pair.  I use to make all of my moccasins but I don't think my back could handle them now.  Getting old is fun.  It really is compared to the alternative!
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Post by: RichW on December 05, 2008, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: "wwpete52"
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/wwpete52/brogans.jpg)

You can cut these down.  Cut from just above the stitching in the back, to between the 2nd and third lace hole.

Not only was this popular during the Civil War, it also makes a shoe that is a dead ringer for those that were popular in the Upper Missouri fur trade.

You can drive ordinary carpet tacks into the heel for traction and longer wear on pavement.

Stay off linoleum unless your insurance covers hip replacement.  :?