Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 11:21:06 AM

Title: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 11:21:06 AM: I just had a long conversation with Goex. I was surprised they spent so much time with me, but they had to go back to all the tests they did on the powders. We were talking at least 20-25 min.

Here's the deal, and now I know why the Old Enysford is smacking me compared to Goex.

70gr with a .495 ball.

Goex.....1550
OE.........1790
Swiss.....1814
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Hanshi on April 03, 2014, 02:04:12 PM: As I've been convinced for some time now, OE is the real deal. I just need to get my hands on a pound or two.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Fletcher on April 03, 2014, 02:20:52 PM: It appears that your numbers are muzzle velocity. As long as consistent, I can learn
to work with about any powder. What really concerns me is pressure and what the
manufacturers tolerances are. Did you get any comparisons on those?

Sure I would love to have more velocity for the same grain weight of Black Powder,
but I really need to know that pressures are in the safe ranges.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 03, 2014, 02:37:32 PM: Hi, Fletch, how's the marquee doin'?

Here's the deal. Most folks shooting OE or Swiss dial back the load to keep velocities and pressures in bounds, but the velocity ranges you are seeing in the post for 70gr seem reasonable (although he did NOT tell us about cal., ball size, patch thickness, lube...).

When you cut back on the amount of powder used, you get more shots per pound, of course. Both OE and Swiss are cleaner and more consistent from almost all the reports I read. There have also been some disparaging remarks made about the cost of both of these premium powders, but when you break down the real cost, it's pretty insignificant when you add up all the other costs involved in getting you and your kit to a shooting event.

One more thing. If you are hunting or gong shooting, "minute of deer" may be all you need. But if you talk to the folks who are competetive in chunk shooting and bench RB and slug competition (where Swiss predominates), a few thousandths can keep you well out of first place.

So, you pays your money and...
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 03:28:58 PM: I gave the ball size, which gave the caliber.

Old Eynsford is only $1.00 more per pound than Goex. It's a deal.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 03, 2014, 03:34:31 PM: Quote from: "Muley"
I gave the ball size, which gave the caliber.

And so you did. My age is showing, I guess.

Many feel Swiss is a bargain too.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 03:46:27 PM: I used to shoot 2 cases of Swiss a year, but it was way cheaper then. Graf's wants $24.99 lb now. Way too much.

Old Eynsford is $15.99. Much better.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: sse on April 03, 2014, 04:59:37 PM: Old Eynsford is $15.99. Much better.

Which vendor are you getting your powder from?
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 05:30:09 PM: I get it from Graf and Sons. Fast reasonable shipping, and good to deal with.

I made a mistake though. I was thinking of Goex with the price. Olde Eynsford is $16.99.

Graf & Sons - Black Powder & Cannon Fuse (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501)
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: sse on April 03, 2014, 06:37:42 PM: Thank you...good information, too...
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: sse on April 03, 2014, 06:42:15 PM: So, I take it, OE is intended by GOEX to take away from the Swiss market...???
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 06:46:44 PM: Exactly, they told me that was their goal.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 03, 2014, 08:59:24 PM: Not my hypothetical, but here goes. Figure a chunk gun that uses 80 grain charges. Should be about 85 shots per pound. Chunk match runs 13 shots--3 to dial in, 10 for score.

OE is about $.20 per shot, so $2.60 to shoot the match.
Swiss runs about $.30 per, or $3.90 for the same match.

Difference: $1.30 per match.

If you are consistently among the top shooters, is saving pennies really worth trying? Some are, but Swiss is still very popular among chunk, RB bench, slug, and BPCR competitors. I think OE has some proving to do. I'm even wondering if Goex is selling OE at a loss to try to swing folks to give it a try.

I've got no dog in this fight, but it's fun to watch the run up.

If I was a competition shooter, I might give OE a try, but bottom line, I'd only switch away from Swiss if my scores improved. Pennies wouldn't even begin to figure into it.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 03, 2014, 09:07:18 PM: I gave up competition shooting decades ago. I'm a hunter. Olde Eynsford is cleaner burning than Goex, and is the reason I bought it. It was a pleasant surprise to see the power it had too. I just thought i'd pass it on.

Nobody is asking anyone to give up Swiss, but it might be a change some might want to do who are using Goex.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 03, 2014, 09:15:46 PM: Yup. Different purposes. Glad you find OE cleaner and to your liking. I haven't tried it yet since I have plenty of Ol' Goex on hand for informal shooting and still have some Swiss to burn. If I could find a local source, I'd pick up a pound to try before my next bulk order.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Fletcher on April 04, 2014, 12:47:50 AM: Kermit - missed ya at Monroe. Still use the Marquis as my camp tent. My 'store' outgrew it.
Using my older big wall tent with extended fly - just have to cover up the 'modern'corners
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 04, 2014, 01:13:19 AM: And I'm still shooting all 12 of that dozen arrows I got from you the day of that handoff. Quality, of course, but also amazing I haven't lost or broken even one!
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 04, 2014, 11:51:37 AM: Not even close to on topic.

First class hijack for you boys.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: sse on April 04, 2014, 12:35:42 PM: to err is human to forgive is divine
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 04, 2014, 12:39:36 PM: No problem at all. I've been known to do some hijacking too.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Hanshi on April 04, 2014, 05:16:05 PM: Pennies DO make a difference to me; however I don't compete in matches. I've still got a fair amount of Goex and a good supply of Jacks Battle Powder. JBP is inexpensive and performs with excellence. For a premium powder OE is rather inexpensive. I don't worry over that last 1/4" on a target. I think OE would be just the thing for pistols and c&b revolvers. Pressures? It's all black powder and is safe for those of us who have a lick of sense. I NEVER worry about my guns blowing up.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: forest on April 04, 2014, 09:47:09 PM: Well I'm waiting for a new build I'm planing to try OE in it, and use it if it is as I have been hearing I will be useing it .
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: dmills on April 10, 2014, 05:02:44 PM: Quote from: "Muley"
I gave the ball size, which gave the caliber.

Old Eynsford is only $1.00 more per pound than Goex. It's a deal.

Where do you find OE? I don't like to buy online if I can avoid it.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 10, 2014, 06:26:03 PM: I have to buy it online at Graf and Sons. Nobody within 100 miles even stocks the subs, let alone BP.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Kermit on April 10, 2014, 09:32:27 PM: Powder purchasing is one really good argument for keeping a local BP club alive and healthy, even if a small group that meets sporadically.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 10, 2014, 09:44:37 PM: I hear rumors that we may have to do a background check to buy BP. One more expense added on top of the Hazmat fee.
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Riley/MN on April 11, 2014, 10:18:19 AM: Where'd you hear that Pete?
Title: Re: Powder Comparison
Post by: Muley on April 11, 2014, 10:40:15 AM: Different articles here and there. It was sparked by the Boston bombing which used BP as the explosive.

Do doubt from some politicians thumping their chest for votes.