Neturalizing Acid Stain

[jerry]

I have just removed the old finish from a maple stocked flintlock rifle and am getting ready to re-finish it. I plan on using an acid base stain and have been told to neturalize it after getting the color i want . This is supposed to keep it from turning black as it gets older. Can anyone please advise me on how this is done or if its really nessesary?

[R.M.]

Jerry, welcome. Glad you joined us.
Is neutralizing necessary? Probably. Just mix up some baking soda and water and wash the stock. Now you're going to ask the amounts. Don't know really. I probably mix a couple of spoonfulls in a cup of water. I'd rinse with plain water after to get rid of the soda.
Hope that helps. I'm sure others might be able to give more info.

[Wyoming Mike]

It depends on how strong and how much acid stain you use whether it will go to black or not.  The acid will keep working on darkening the wood unless you stop it.  It will also darken the oil finish if left on.

The easiest method is to do what R.M. says.  Mix up a couple of tablespoons of Sodium Bicarbinate in a glass of water and use this solution to wash the stock.  Wash it with clear water afterwards to get rid of any leftover soda and you are finished.

[Captchee]

also remeber that your finish , if you use oils , will darken the color . linseed will  darken alot over time

[jerry]

Thanks guys... it does sound near as bad as I envisioned it being... puttin the stain on and keepin everything even will most likely be a lot more difficult. Whats the best way to apply the heat to maintain equal coloration the full length of the stock?

[cb]

Jerry - for heat a heat gun works good set at medium heat - nice thing is you can work a section at a time with AF and unless you scorch the stock it won't show variation. Aother option is hold it over a wood stove or an elctric range. Open flame can work but the chances of scorching are higher.

The vinegar based acid stain need no heat or netralizing, but the nitric acid based AF does - I find that washing soda, found in most laundry sections is a better neutralizer than baking soda - WS has a PH balance of around 11 and BS around 8.
Some folks prefer lye, but it's caustic nature is a mark against it for me.
Also after using AF if you want to tweak the color you can use regular wood dyes.
As Capt Chee noted all oil based finishes will darken over time due to oxydation - one of my favorite finishes which is close to the original linseed oil based varnishes is Tried and True Oil followed by their Tried and True Varnish. Apply in LIGHT coats and put in the sun to dry.

Done right using AF and the T & T you can get a final look like this:

[jtwodogs]

I heard of some putting small brad tacks in plum brown solution and using it instead of AF.  
I read on my PB sol. that it is nitric acid.
Can this be used for an acceptable substitute for AF.
Thanks guys for sharing all your wisdoms.
Jack

[Fletcher]

cb - that is a beautiful hawk.  Is that a working peace pipe?

Bet you don't play 'handles' with that gem  

[cb]

I heard of some putting small brad tacks in plum brown solution and using it instead of AF.
I read on my PB sol. that it is nitric acid.
Can this be used for an acceptable substitute for AF.

The top piece was my control - an old batch of Wahkon Bay AF.
Below - on the left is ferric acetate aka vinegar and iron, in the middle is ferric nitrate crystals (ferric nitrate is made by dissolving iron in nitric acid aka AF), on the right is iron tacks dissolved in BC Brown, which contains 10% nitric acid plus some other acids. As you can see it does work -
CAUTION: when working with ANY chemicals please use proper safety precautions - mixing iron in nitric creates toxic fumes, a properly rated mask and good ventilation are IMO necessities.

Is that a working peace pipe?

Yes sir it is - I make everything to be a working model albeit many are parts of collections rather than using pieces.....
Since it's two different pieces here they are all finished up....

Sterling silver mounts - head hand-forged by my late compadre Gib Guignard





This one I did the whole thing - the head is made up of a piece of wrought iron wagon axle for the bowl, the eye is wrought iron wagon wheel, and the blade is wagon whell spring - all of the metal was picked up along the Oregon Trail in Wyoming near South Pass City. This one has brass mounts.....

[Stryker]

I used Aqua Fortis on my Isaac Haines. According to Troy  Roope, who mentored me, all you need to neutralize it, is heat. Per his instructions I used a heat gun on low and while heating it, continually saturated the stock with linseed oil to keep the stock from scorching. He said he learned that from gun maker Jim Hash of Appomattox, VA. It's been a couple of years since I built it and nothing has turned green on me yet.

[jerry]

Thanks for all the information , mighty proud to have got so much help.