Traditional Muzzleloading Association
The Center of Camp => The Campfire => Topic started by: Hawken on January 13, 2018, 02:38:25 PM
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this turned out???
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4627/27892883379_b253532dd8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JuNjsp)bear-huntsman-forest-tree-river (https://flic.kr/p/JuNjsp) by Sharps Man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr
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:hairy
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Well??? I expect we will never know... :shake
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Like Joe said, "We may never know".... but my best guess is two Trappers end-up killing a big "Griz" shortly before changing their underwear.
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
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I was kinda thinking that the guy stradling that log better not lose his footing.
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And I was kinda thinking......never/ever have your rifle out of reach!! :Doh!
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And I was kinda thinking......never/ever have your rifle out of reach!! :Doh!
Good thought, fer sure!
Anyone else ever wondered just how they actually 'managed' their rifles during that era?
Even in the heyday of the fur trade era, many of their rifles were flinters, even though the caplock was gaining ground in popularity. When they were in the water, as they often were, was the rifle primed or capped all the time?
Did they use a hastily made sling from leather, or rope?
Where was it tied off? On the barrel and the wrist, or did it perhaps cover the entire stock and tied off on the barrel providing an extra few inches of room, much like we often see available today?
Not that such wondering has ever bothered me, because I 'think' I know what I would done.
In fact, I 'think' I know for sure that I would have used any means available to keep that rifle over my shoulder, at all times.
Why would I say something like that?
Have ya ever tried to drag a Deer, or carry an Elk Quarter, while still trying to carry your rifle?
Of course it can be done, but a simple sling makes life a lot easier.
Uncle Russ...
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In reading journals like Osborne Russells, and in my reading about trapping companys in general, Seems to me most trapping was done brigade fashion where there were different duties allocated to different men. I suspect not all of the men carried a long gun at all times--hard work for two hands... I also think of the French Canadian Voyaguers. I suspect that their was an arsenal of guns ready to hand out in case of need, but only a few guards that carried guns. I think the painting was probably fairly accurate in its depiction of the man in the water working traps to not have a gun. After all, he had his pard who was well heeled and on watch. As for the free trappers who trapped in smaller groups? They too probably split up into a buddy system of sorts and had one guy doing the work and another on watch.
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Back to the original question. From my limited experience, and having sat through a lot of bear avoidance training sessions, I would hope the guy with the rifle holds his fire. The bear is standing up which means he wants to satisfy his curiosity. He is not a danger. He may decide to turn tail and run, or not. When he drops down to all fours is when he's in position to run, either away or towards the two men.
Thinking back to the Lewis & Clarke expedition, they were vexed by grizzlies quite a lot and it took more than one shot to kill them, even with .54 rifles. If the guy shoots now it will probably only anger the bear into charging. If he holds his fire the bear could turn around and run off.
Back in the early 1970s I worked with a guy, first name of Roger and I don't remember his last name. He and a friend were backpacking off the Denali Highway when a grizzly charged down on them from a draw 1/4 mile away. Roger pulls his .44 magnum, waits until the bear is about 20 yards away and opens up on him, all five shots. While the bear is killing his buddy, Roger is frantically kicking out shells and reloading. He got three more rounds in when the bear came at him and he got all three rounds off. He said the bear dropped with his nose literally a foot from Roger's toes. Fish & Game did an autopsy on the bear and all eight rounds could be covered by a paper plate, and all would have been fatal over time. Roger promptly traded in his revolver for a .458 Winchester magnum rifle for more stopping power.
Alaska regulations used to be a minimum of .54 caliber muzzle loader for round ball if you were after big game other than deer or black bear, or .45 caliber with at least a 250 grain bullet. I don't see that restriction anymore, but I really wouldn't want to face one of the big bears with anything lighter than .62 in my personal opinion, unless someone were backing me up!
-Kees-
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The image seems to show two seasoned trappers, later in the era, so I would imagine the shooter does have a big bored rifle (or smoothbore trade gun). If the bear turned and ran, then the trappers survived and all that was left was to clean out their breechclouts. If the bear chose to attack, then the trappers did not survive and all that was left was for the buzzards to clean up the scraps.
In reading Lewis & Clark's journals about their bear encounters, The men survived every encounter, which I think tells us something about the outcome of this painted encounter. They often had to retreat into deep water etc... and the encounters ending in a dead bear, seemed to always involve more than one or two shooters. Then we have the Hugh Glass story and it ended with a dead bear and a nearly dead Hugh Glass, and of course the Jed Smith bear encounter where he survived the mauling.
I think most modern encounters end in the bear and men retreating from each other. But there are some that end in a mauling. Not so many end in a human death which probably has meaning as well.
K
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I'll bet that most of the free trappers had a large bore pistol in their sash when setting traps and the rifle was left on the bank with the rest of their traps. I read one account, where the trapper shoved the barrel of his gun down his back and inside his sash with the stock up at his shoulder blades. This seems to me to be pretty uncomfortable, and hard to access, but then again I wasn't there.
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Osborne Russel in his journal speaks of carrying a large smoothbore horse pistol at one point. You may be onto something. There were probably loads of old smoothbore muskets and second-hand guns that were handed out to the company trappers and camp help. I have always been a fan of the brown bess and can certainly imagine an old wore out bess, maybe shortened due to a blown muzzle being a good security gun for a trapping camp back in the 1830-40s.
K