Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Cap and Ball Revolvers => Topic started by: chuckpa on November 11, 2008, 03:43:20 PM

Title: maxi ball in a Cb Revolver
Post by: chuckpa on November 11, 2008, 03:43:20 PM: I have a friend that told me he was very successful using a .45 maxi ball in a Remington CB revolver with .25 grains of goex. He re sized only the base so it would fit in the chamber and lubed the bullet with beeswax and alox. I would like to try this but I can't seem to find a mold in the area. I have a .54 which I would trade and I would be happy to buy one if someone has one for sale. Has anyone tried this and if so what were your results?
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Post by: R.M. on November 11, 2008, 03:51:14 PM: Lee makes a 220 grain mold meant for the Old Army. I've used it, and can't say that it performed any better that a RB. I suppose it might have more punch, but the paper I shoot, doesn't need any more punch than a RB can give. If you'd like, I could send you some to try.
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Post by: jbullard1 on November 11, 2008, 04:34:01 PM: I sometimes shoot a Lee like RM says but I drop my powder to 20gr
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Post by: chuckpa on November 11, 2008, 05:37:30 PM: Thanks men
For the information, I am trying to target shoot so I am not worried about punch. I didn't make that clear. My friend won a national match at the North South skirmish Assoc. shoot a number of years ago.
I won a ham at a local shoot this weekend using a RB. But I had to hold low at 6 o'clock. I have tried using reduced loads with corn meal and I have not been to happy with the results. I was thinking that the heaver bullet would allow me to shot closer to the under the bull standard hold at 6 o'clock. I went to the Lee Mold site after reading your posts and I see that they make a conical mold for the Remington. I use only traditional sights. Thanks again for your information.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on November 11, 2008, 05:55:49 PM: FEIW; I have never managed to get anything other than a round ball to shoot even half-way accurately in a revolver.

The diameter of a regular ball for the .44/.45 cal Revolver is actually .454 with a cylinder diameter of .452 (.002 is actually "shaved" off during loading in order to provide a seal.)

The length of a .45 cal Maxi-Ball is 0.735.... the depth of the cylinder on a 1860 Army Colt is 1.245... which leaves room for a max powder capacity volume of only .405 in length....not very much powder for that heavy of a bullet....I don't own a Remington right now, but I would suspect a cylinder of very similiar dimensions.

IMO, the Lee conical would be a lot better choice, and although I've tried them, I didn't care for their performance....but who knows, they just may be the ticket in your revolver.

As usual, your mileage may vary....considerably!

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: chuckpa on November 11, 2008, 07:25:34 PM: Russ
I just went down and miked the cylinder diameters on 3 cylinders and they all came out at .445 and I wish they were .452 because I could size about half or 3/4 of a Long Colt bullet to slip into the cylinder chambers and fit under the loading lever to shave down the rest of the .454 bullet.

I don't think the Maxi bullet will work in my revolver.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on November 11, 2008, 07:51:17 PM: .......I find that interesting.

Perhaps R.M. will jump back in here.
Is there that much difference in a Colt and a Remington?

I am "almost" sure I am using the same RB mould for the Colt that I was using when I had the 1858 Remington, but maybe not.

Anyway, it seems you have a better than average grip on the situation, and I feel fairly sure that whatever you end up doing, it will be done safely.

Uncle Russ..
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Post by: chuckpa on November 11, 2008, 08:50:05 PM: Russ
I feel the difference in dimensions is do to the manufacturer's. I have observed this before in Italian imports.

RM thanks for the offer of the bullets.
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Post by: R.M. on November 11, 2008, 09:49:03 PM: Hey Russ, yes the Italian guns seem to have cylinder diameters way small compared to the groove diameter. Doesn't make for good bullet/ball fit. I think it's to reduce pressure, as advised by some lawyer. I have reamed out cylinders to closer match the bore. helped greatly.
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Post by: hawkeye on November 12, 2008, 08:49:46 AM: I use a Lee 200gr bullet mould for my Remington. It says on the box it's for Remington revolvers and is .450 diameter. I cast up a bunch and am going to take it out to the range and see if I can get "minute of deer" accuracy at 25yds with it. I was thinking of carrying it as "back-up" to my 1861 rifled-musket during deer season.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on November 12, 2008, 11:12:35 AM: Quote
I was thinking of carrying it as "back-up" to my 1861 rifled-musket during deer season.

Both from the same era.... :shock:

And, if I remember correctly, my bud Hawkeye has one of them too!....now there is a handgun!

Uncle Russ..
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Post by: chuckpa on November 12, 2008, 04:34:01 PM: RM
I was thinking about having the chambers reamed last night after I miked them. What kind of accuracy did you get when you reamed them? What loads do you use for target shooting?
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Post by: R.M. on November 12, 2008, 04:56:09 PM: The gun I reamed was a .31cal. Before, the cylinders were .005" under the groove diameter. I reamed them Letter P (.323") diameter, and it also now uses the OO buckshot, which is .335"
This isn't what you would call a target gun, but you can at least keep it on paper now.
The ROA is a good example. .45 bore, .455" groove, and .455" cylinder diameter. Notice how the cylinder and groove match? These guns are as accurate as any modern pistol, in the right hands.
I use 25gr of fff, a card wad, a 9 mil case full of Cream of Wheat, a home-lubed felt wad, and a .457 RB. I've also chamfered the cylinder mouths so the don't cut a ring anymore, they swag the ball as it's pushed in. This gives a tad more bearing length to the ball, and none of those pesky little lead rings.
On a good day, this will produce 3-4" groups @ 25 yards.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 12, 2008, 08:39:45 PM: RM
I just slugged the bore and lands are .445 the grove is .438. If I want to experiment with the Maxi Ball I will have to buy another pistol which has dimensions like the originals. I guess with this pistol it is back to the corn meal and round balls.
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Post by: R.M. on November 12, 2008, 09:26:18 PM: Chuck, I'm a bit confused. The groove diameter should be larger than the bore.
I think the Italian guns have 5 lands and grooves, which makes it hard to measure.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 13, 2008, 07:28:49 PM: You are right I got it backwards.
I was having lunch today with a fellow black powder shooter that I work with and he is selling me another Remington which he believes has the proper dimensions. I will mike it tomorrow night and let you know what they are.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 15, 2008, 05:31:33 PM: RM
I picked up another Remington on Friday and had a chamber chamfered I hope to take it to the range tomorrow and do some experimenting with round balls and a .45 long Colt bullet cast from an original mould and lubed 50/50 Bee's wax and olive oil. I will keep looking for a maxi ball mould.
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Post by: twotrack on November 22, 2008, 08:57:55 PM: I believe most bp rev have under sized cly for insurance reasons. Slug your barrel and have your cly reamed to fit it isn't that expensive and you will have a more accurate rev.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 25, 2008, 05:22:06 PM: I was not able to get to the range to do any significant work with the first rev. I picked up a second one for $150.00 and slugged the bore and the best that I could figure it is .443 and the cylinders are .447.

I was able to pick up some maxi balls at a gun show and the base of the balls miked out to .454 and some variations between the bullets I don't think it was very significant.

I was thinking that I should get a .450 resizer die for the maxi balls.

I would also like to know if anyone has caste maxi balls from a lee mold and what do they mike out at approx. I know there is a variation with lead mixture etc.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 25, 2008, 07:39:27 PM: OK
I think I have the problem solved, I found a Lee .430 resizer die and I resized the first ring on the maxi ball and it slips right into the chamber. I am going to lube the grooves with 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Now all I have to do is get some time over this long weekend to test this combo out.
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Post by: chuckpa on November 28, 2008, 09:48:20 PM: I went to the range and the maxi balls did not work well at all as a mater of fact there was some key holing. I tried a few 454 balls and the results were better. I think I will have the cylinders reamed out to .451 and stick with the round balls and about 20 grns of goex 3f.
Thanks for your comments.
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Post by: FG1 on November 28, 2008, 09:59:06 PM: I had pretty good luck with pure lead cast 230 gr RN meant for a 45 acp . I lubed with spg lube and sized to .452 . They had more recoil than roundball but you new for certain when you wolloped a clanger !
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Post by: chuckpa on December 02, 2008, 05:02:10 PM: Thanks FGI for that information.
I took both of my 1858 Remington s and traded them in on one made by Umbertie. The owner of the store slugged the barrel and we miked the chambers. I do believe that this revolver will work a lot better. The revolvers that I turned in were made by other manufacturers and seemed to have tapered bores.
Now all I need is some range time.