Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: kev308 on January 24, 2017, 02:08:22 PM

Title: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: kev308 on January 24, 2017, 02:08:22 PM
Hello all, I was wondering who uses a rear sight on their smoothbore? I removed mine many years ago so I could shoot at the NMLRA events.

I was thinking of putting one on the gun for hunting season but I'm not sure
Was curious how you all shoot yours.
Thanks, Kevin
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2017, 03:18:59 PM
kev308,.... Welcome to our TMA forum.  :rt th
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: amm1851 on January 24, 2017, 03:23:38 PM
Quite a number of original trade guns were fitted with rear sights. Mine doesn't currently have one but I am thinking about having one installed.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Maven on January 24, 2017, 07:01:31 PM
kevin, My GRF 20ga. trade gun lacks a rear sight, and truthfully I don't miss it.  However, I did cobble one up from a pc. of ancient O scale brass rail (as in model railroading).  I used generic Crazy Glue to affix it to the bbl., but found I was no more accurate with it attached than without it.  Before you alter your bbl. or tang, think about making one and trying it.  If you don't like it, you can simply remove it.  Btw, another advantage of this [method] is you can experiment with how far forward the sight needs to be for you to get a clear/focused sight picture.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: kev308 on January 24, 2017, 07:13:27 PM
Maven, this gun came to me with a rear sight so the dovetail is cut.
Otherwise there's no way I would alter the barrel.
I'm just kinda kickin this around.....nothing is set in stone
Kevin
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: prairie dog on January 24, 2017, 10:05:27 PM
To each his own....

However, I use my trade gun as a shotgun as much as a round ball gun.  When wing shooting I find a rear sight a major distraction.  (Had a removable rear sight on a turkey gun once. Couldn't hit a clay target while that sight was on the gun)

When shooting round ball I use the slot on the tang bolt as a rear sight simply by setting the front blade centered on that slot.  It works well enough that I bang gongs out to 75 yards with no problems.  

I like the versatility of a trade gun with no rear sight.  When I want precise long distance shooting I take a rifle.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 25, 2017, 09:57:06 AM
I put a rear sight on the turkey gun I built, I wanted to have a positive reference in the heat of the battle when a turkey comes in, same for when I am shooting a round ball at a deer.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20006_zpspbh7e0rl.jpg) (http://http)

I have to say, if I shot this gun more I probably wouldn't need a rear sight but I don't get out with it much. Seems like I am more into building them than shooting them. I can shoot at my house but it rattles my neighbors windows for sure so I don't shoot as much as I would like to. The closest public range is 50 miles away.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: KHickam on January 26, 2017, 06:29:28 PM
Tried it both ways - not much difference in accuracy for me
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: amm1851 on January 26, 2017, 06:34:56 PM
I picked up some thin rare earth magnets and I plan to experiment with using those to attach a rear sight on my Northwest gun.  That way if there's no appreciable difference in accuracy,  my barrel will still be intact.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Hanshi on January 27, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
My smoothbore fowler was ordered with a rear sight; it takes all the effort out of switching from rifle to smoothbore.  I shoot a lot more ball than shot and don't do any wing shooting.  Shot is reserved for other critters such as bushytails and turkeys; but I'll admit the last time I went turkeying I took my rifle.  I don't shoot in smoothbore matches, either.  The rear sight puts ball right on and shot about a couple inches lower.  Easy peasy.

And, Kevin, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: RobD on January 27, 2017, 03:42:30 PM
i prefer a rear sight on a smoothie, but most woods walks or matches don't allow smoothie rear sights.  i have a new fowler coming and ordered it without a rear sight, to compete in my club matches.  if i need a rear sight i'll experiment with neodymium magnets - there's a neat one that's about 3/8" square with a 1/8" hole dead center.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: prairie dog on January 28, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
I ran a trade gun match for the past three years.  It was limited to flintlocks but we allowed rear sights just so we would have enough participants to host the event.   The course consisted of an equal number of round ball targets (steel gongs & bowling pins from 25 to 75 yards) and clay targets from a trap thrower.  We included one target for buckshot as a separate "fun" poker match.  

It's a small sample, 12 to 15 shooters, but I expected the shooters with rear sights would do better on the round ball targets and those without rear sights would do better on the clay targets.  Which is why I set the course with equal numbers of clay and gong targets.

Results from all three years; the overall winners were those with no rear sights.  
The best round ball shooter used a short canoe gun with a rear sight, but he did so poorly on clay targets that he didn't place overall.

On the course of targets for round ball the shooters with no rear sights did just as well as those who had rear sights.  On the clay targets those without rear sights did much better.  

I admit that all the shooters had done more round ball shooting than wing shooting and the first year the clay shooting was rather poor.  The second year all shooters were much improved at the clay targets.

My observation is on round ball shooting out to 75 yards a rear sight offers no advantadge.  

In wing shooting our shooters with no rear sights did considerably better.  But other factors besides rear sight could be in play here.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: rollingb on January 28, 2017, 12:07:42 PM
prairie dog,.... thanks for that interesting post! :rt th
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Hanshi on January 28, 2017, 03:06:49 PM
Prairie dog, you just deflated my balloon.  But I still like my rear sight; it helped me make a nice running shot on a doe just a few years ago. 8)
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: kev308 on January 28, 2017, 04:40:47 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys. And for the welcome to the forum.
I shot this smoothbore, it's a TOTW fowler 62 cal, for many years with no rear sight. At one point in time it was the only muzzleloader I shot. There are alot of dead squirrels at the front end of it also.
I started shooting it regularly again and have noticed that my point of impact at 50 yards is lower than in the past. Maybe it's because my eyes are that much older, or I'm just not holding it like I used to.
Whatever it is I was just kicking around the idea that a rear sight might help.
I think for now I'm just going to keep shooting it as is (gee won't that be a chore! ha-ha) and see how it goes.
But I'm still interested to hear your opinions on the subject.
Thanks, Kevin
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Maven on January 28, 2017, 04:43:20 PM
Yes, I'm used to a rear sight too, but PD's observation re distance & a rear sight is pretty much what I've observed and experienced.  In fact, I sometimes shoot with a fella who shoots  a 20a. smoothie with no rear sight and who does at least as well as some of the riflemen and sometimes better.  While I'm not nearly as adept as he is with the smoothbore (no rear sight), shots @ 50yd. gongs aren't impossible.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Mad Irish Jack on February 26, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Myself; I had a Tulle smoothbore I finished, from CenterMark. I could handle it, no sight, at basic ranges better than most :idea my own removable tang site (primarily for plinking long distances and hunting larger game w/ rb). It was 1/16"  by 1 1/2" brass flat the width of the tang. I bent it to not quite 40 degrees. I filed a point on the base end. Place on the tang pointed with the point back toward the butt, set at a position that puts the sight plate above the breach. Mark the tang screw hole center and drill a hole, centered in the base, the diameter of the tang screw. You may need to purchase a new tang screw slightly longer in length. Screw the sight in place. (SIGHT IN)using a pencil to find the center. SHOOT> move the base R or L to put the penciled center mark on the targets vertical center.  Also mark the tang where the point tip on the base is positioned. This needs peened, scratched or someway marked. Tighten the sight. Horizontal center is set. Find and file the sight plate to your horizontal center at your shortest sighting distance. This is the deepest groove cut. Make initial marks with pencil before filing. The plate top was my 100yds. I filed a thin groove for 25 yds, and a slightly wider one for 50yds. For giggles I filed a 150 yd mark on the front sight. :USA  :hey-hey
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/Mad_Jack/removable%20rear%20sight_zpsxzz5ss8c.jpg) (http://http)
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Stormrider51 on March 05, 2017, 05:22:47 PM
I've got two smoothies.  The Dutch Club Butt in the photo does not have a rear sight but the Tulle below it does.  I can't tell much if any difference when shooting shot loads.  Firing a single ball is a different story.  I have a tendency to string balls vertically with the Dutch Girl.  This has been true in the past with other smoothbores that lack a rear sight.  I think the problem is me and not the gun.  Thanks to the shape of the stock my face doesn't get a good cheek weld for repeatable shooting.  The rear sight on the Frenchie forces me to get the same sight picture even though my cheekbone is floating slightly above the sloping buttstock.  As the saying goes YMMV.
John
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/20170305_155611.jpg)
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Longhunter on March 06, 2017, 11:15:24 AM
Quote
When shooting round ball I use the slot on the tang bolt as a rear sight simply by setting the front blade centered on that slot. It works well enough that I bang gongs out to 75 yards with no problems.

Analogy....Why use crutches when you can walk just as well with a cane.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: rdstrain49 on March 30, 2017, 06:02:14 PM
I've only shot my smoothie out to 70 yards.  So far I'm well and truly pleased with the 70 yard three shot groups offhand averaging right at 2" center to center.  And no, mine doesn't have a rear sight.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: kev308 on March 30, 2017, 07:34:12 PM
Thanks everyone for your responses. As it turns out I bought a sight from TOTW. After much hemming and hawing, I put it on. To say the least I was pleased with the results.
The best part is the point of impact is only two inches low at 50 yards. So a few licks with a file and we are good to go.
When I shoulder the gun, I pick up the sight picture quickly and easily.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Stormrider51 on March 30, 2017, 08:56:02 PM
Glad you got set up in a way that works for you.  That's all that really counts.
John
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Hanshi on April 03, 2017, 05:11:45 PM
I found the rear sight on mine made a difference, too.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Jumpy on May 05, 2017, 12:28:43 AM
I have a rear sight on my virgina smoothie. So far I like it just fine.
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: Loyalist Dave on May 05, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
I use them on all of mine for hunting.  I bought a 4-pack of brass, 3/4 inch Everbuilt "angle braces" or "corner brackets"  I hold them in place with the tang screw, and I then shortened the upright portion as while the open hole made a sort of "ghost ring" when shooting shot, it didn't give me precise enough a sight picture for shooting ball.

LD
Title: Re: Rear sights on your smoothbores
Post by: AxelP on May 05, 2017, 11:13:58 AM
I don't have a rear sight on my fowler but I use the tang bolt slot as a reference and it seems to keep my windage pretty much dead on when shooting roundball so no official rear sight is needed.

In talking to to various shooters over the years, (both modern cf and traditional ml) I have noticed that generally speaking if you are a good rifle shooter you are not a great shotgun shooter. If you are a good shotgun shooter, you are not a great rifle shooter. I know that plays out for me. I can often get better groups with my smoothbore fowler shooting patched roundball than I do with my rifle. I know part of that might be because the stock on my fowler fits me better, but I also think it has to do with my shooting technique or lack thereof. I have little formal training, just what pops showed me when I was a kid so I am sure I have plenty of poor habits.

K