Traditional Muzzleloading Association

The Center of Camp => Camping Gear and Campfire Cooking => Topic started by: Cpl.Parker on December 31, 2010, 06:14:10 AM

Title: Camp suggestions
Post by: Cpl.Parker on December 31, 2010, 06:14:10 AM

Folks for the past couple of years I have been unhappy with my camp.   I have gone from a 16x12 wall tent to a 10x10 wedge tent and I still feel that I am missing the point.   I have ended up with a huge amount of items that are required to erect and maintain these types of camps.   I feel that I have veered away from the spirit of what a fur trade traveling camp would be.    I am thinking of going to a single tarp lean-to.   I have been using a wood-frame bed but I would like to make faux fur bales to kip on.   I have found that the plastic wrapped wood chip bales you find in feed stores are an approximate size of a bale.   I plan to cover three chip bales with  white canvas and label them as pieces.   These bales would provide my chair, table and bed.   My object it to minimize my camp to better reflect the conditions of the voyageur.   Any ideas, critiques or suggestions gratefully appreciated.

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Post by: Riley/MN on December 31, 2010, 10:24:26 AM

I have actually looked at those "bales" at Fleet Farm (aka "The Man Mall") with that very thought in mind.... well, not for a bed, but for sittin and workin on.

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Post by: 2 Locks on December 31, 2010, 01:32:19 PM

Cpl. Parker – In the case of Rocky Mountain fur trappers, at least those that went out with trapping brigades, they would have been outfitted fairly well in the beginning.  Brigades were divided into messes with 4 to 6 men per mess.  Each man would have started with two or three animals, usually a horse for himself and a mule or two for his equipment, and he would have been expected to carry his share of the camp goods for his mess.  In 1830 Bill Sublette took the first wagon based trading brigade (10 wagons) to the mountains.  Those guys would have probably camped in high style, relatively speaking.

Now I know little of the voyageurs, but I would imagine that they could take quite a bit with them in their canoes, and if they had a keel boat, that might have compared to the wagons.

In both cases, the Mountain Men or Voyageurs would have started out fairly well outfitted.  Exactly how well is up to you to figure out.  In the case of the Mountain Men there was near constant predation from the Indians, and they would often be reduced to what camp equipment they could still carry after they already had rifle & traps in hand.  And sometimes they didn’t even have that.  One could surmise that similar losses happened to the voyageurs over the course of an expedition.

I have thought about your same questions as to the items in my camp.  I decided that the minimalist camp might reduce my enjoyment of attending rendezvous & maybe even cause me to loose interest, so I decided that I would not go that way.  My own camp is based on setting out with mess mates using horse & mule. Basically I have a wedge tent & blankets covering a modern backpacker’s mat.  (Sorry guys but a good sleep goes a long ways to the next days enjoyment :rt th

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Post by: MrFox on December 31, 2010, 01:45:15 PM

Just so that you know, Fleet Farm established antigun no-carry (neither legally allowed open, not concealed (when it's allowed here at Wisconsin).

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on December 31, 2010, 08:49:09 PM

I am lucky to be a serjeant so I get to use a straw tick..., a cloth container that holds straw, or leaves or what have you, to use as a mattress.  I dump the straw when I am done and it rolls up nice.  Insulates better than just straw, and I don't have to hide a thinsulate pad.  

Do you not like the camp as it looks when it is set up, OR do you not like hauling it around?  If it's the set up would not a trapping brigade bring tools with it, and make furniture when they got someplace?  I don't know; that's why I ask.  If the British went into garrison some place and built a fort, they'd soon fashion benches and stools and tables.  Take a piece of split wood, plain one side to sit on, and add three hardwood legs.

Just some ideas...

LD

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Post by: 2 Locks on January 01, 2011, 01:09:13 PM

LD - The straw mattress sounds great.  How I manage to overlook some of the most obvious answers I'll never know.  

I'll have to get a few yards of pillow ticking & make one up.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on January 02, 2011, 11:30:20 AM

OK well some pointers..., Make it wide enough, and I use a 1/2 bale of straw (I'm 5'10 and wide at the tummy) and the "tick" is 6'6".  Shake the straw loose when you put it in; it will fill about half of the tick.  I put a small flap, as well as few buttons and button holes on the end, so it's easy to close.  Then I shake it around a bit to spread out the straw.  When I lie down it compresses to about 2" but it soft and insulates from the cold and damp coming up from the ground.  You may have to fluff-and-sqaush a few times to evenly distribute the straw and avoid lumps.

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Post by: Sir Michael on January 03, 2011, 10:03:53 PM

If I may toss my 2p into the fray.  Going light requires rethinking what you are doing.  My recommendation is that you layout everything your have and then start separating what you need from what you have.  When identifying what you need consider this what will fit on the back of one or two pack horses/mules.  Examine closely what you think you need.  You might also want to go over several different books on backpacking.  They will tell you what you need all you need to do then is translate this to the 19th century.

You'll be surprised at what you need vs. what you have or want.

One thing to consider for a mattress is that a Thermarest or other self inflating mattress wrapped in pillow ticking makes a great substitute for a straw pailliasse.

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Post by: Cpl.Parker on January 05, 2011, 01:53:13 AM

"Now I know little of the voyageurs, but I would imagine that they could take quite a bit with them in their canoes, and if they had a keel boat, that might have compared to the wagons."

In all the 19th century paintings I have seen of the Voyageurs their camps were very simple, canoe, tarp, wooden box and stick tripod.   My thoughts are to replicate a camp that would be carried in a canoe where space was a premium.

Sir Michael, I agree, I am to old and fragile to sleep on the ground:-)

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Post by: Captchee on January 05, 2011, 08:52:17 AM

I think it all boils down to what your wanting to do and the context in which your doing it .
 Are you in base camp ?
  If so you would probably see the fur bails ,  canvas , chairs and such .
 But away from base camp or a impromptu camp set up  for a day or two .
 Most likely not .

 When it comes to the voyager . I think one has to remember that these folks  primary  reason for being , was to carry freight. As much of it as they could haul . The more comforts you take , the less   room you have for product .

Myself , what I take to a Vooo, is no where comparable to what I take  when im hunting or on a 2 or 3 day trek.

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Post by: Sir Michael on January 05, 2011, 08:45:09 PM

What Capt said.

Title: Personas and needs.
Post by: Le Loup on January 25, 2011, 10:57:05 PM

Specific personas have specific needs as you well know. The Rock Mountain beaver trapper of the 19th century has to have a horse if you are historical trekking. The voyager should have a canoe, and a large one at that. But I guess if you only use your gear at Rendezvous, you can get away without it.
Oilcloth/tarpaulins were used to cover and protect the goods they carried, so I think that would be the way to go.

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Post by: Rick Villerot on January 31, 2011, 02:51:55 AM

I started with a bunch of stuff & have whittled down to the basics & still am very comfortable.

What I did was to start a journal writing down what I used & did not, what I ate & what I wish I would have brought. It has worked well. One problem I have is sleeping on the ground, It usually hurts my back. So I use a wedge with a cot. Unless I'am going real lite with some compadres.

Be safe, have fun !

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Post by: Puffer on January 31, 2011, 11:33:44 AM

Ahh the  voyageur.

Although their "camp gear" varied, when in the "canoes" VERY sparse.

A community cook pot,  & poss. a tarp. If they had a com. tarp then a lean to. (sometimes in conjunction with the canoe) Most often they, if the weather was "good", they just "hunckered on the ground or if it was not, then found shelter under the canoe.
Where there "tents" ? yes, but ONLY the Company "honchos" had them. That is why portray a "Comp. Honcho"

BTW, in my younger years I did a LOT of "roughing it' ( BSA, Mil. & until my 30s "back packing") But as I got older, I got "soft". Now in my "advanced years" COMFORT is the rule.
My rondy camp, if in the "time", would require a "few" mules to haul.
As Jim,Michael,etc, will attest, 1 mule just for my "attire"

Puffer

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Post by: Trois Castors on January 31, 2011, 08:23:10 PM

Quote from: "Puffer"

Ahh the  voyageur.

Sorry fellas but I have lost track of my books.....
IIRC you were only allowed 40 lbs. of personal kit on a trip.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: MeatStick on April 15, 2012, 03:17:57 PM

I don't do any of the reenactment stuff, but I do hunt and camp very basic with a 10x10 oiled canvas, 2 wool blankets, some twine and worry about finding what ever else I might need after I have shelter. I always say if you can't sleep on the ground, you're not that tired.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: No Rod on April 15, 2012, 03:27:56 PM

I like it!

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: Le Loup on April 15, 2012, 09:22:32 PM

I carry the same equipment all the time, regardless of my mode of travel. That way if anything happens, I know I can carry out what I brought in. I use sticks for a bed & cover it with bracken if there is any. Here is a link to my video, "Making Camp".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUHU1WgLjbA
Regards to all.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: greggholmes on May 26, 2012, 02:47:44 AM

Quote from: "MeatStick"

I always say if you can't sleep on the ground, you're not that tired.

Its not the sleeping thats the hard part, im thinking of going pro, its getting up and being able to walk the next day. I used to be able to sleep in the back of a truck with no pad. Not any more. I need to be able to work when i get home not in traction.

If its not comfortable its not fun,  if it cant be seen it doesnt matter what you sleep on.
For us older guys i would recomend a twin sized air mattres and just let the air out in the morning.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: Hank in WV on May 26, 2012, 10:47:38 AM

Quote from: "MeatStick"

I always say if you can't sleep on the ground, you're not that tired.

You won't always say that.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: Longhunter on May 26, 2012, 10:49:49 AM

Quote

For us older guys i would recommend a twin sized air mattress and just let the air out in the morning.

BLASPHEMY!!! .... :lol:

(http://shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Lake_trip5.jpg)

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: pathfinder on May 26, 2012, 12:01:24 PM

My MAIN reason for going to a rendezvous is to put the lead ball on the target! Everything else is extra stuff. Although at the last event I was at I was selling off a bunch of un-needed stuff,(I did buy a 20X20 Marquie with a covered "porch"(what the heck was I thinkin'?),I have it down to what I need to be comfortable for up to 7 day's. The one thing I WONT give up is my bed!

I have a wooden take down twin size frame that hold's a top shelf posture-pedic mattress. I once shot a match in my "Pack in" day's,if it didn't fit in my pack basket,it didnt go,and I was competeing agains guy's who stayed at a hotel the night before in a big comfy bed,while I spent the night with EVERY lump and bump that was on that rock hard ground and creepy crawley there was!

The next on the chopping block was my kitchen. I carried enough crap to cook a meal for an army,and supply them. now just what is neccasary to feed me and the girl's(Magg's and Bella) for the weekend. Intant coffee,instant oatmeal and cream of wheat and such at most shoot's. At the juried AMM event's it's quite different,that's back to my basic "Pack in" day's! At least there EVERYONE is on the same playing feild!

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: greggholmes on May 26, 2012, 11:18:26 PM

BLASPHEMY!!! ....

I know.

After 25 years on a forklift having my spine pounded into the bottom of my skull  i need a bed.  Also i need to use a CPAP to sleep.

Im thinking of buildng a hand cart/ wagon made out of my bed parts so ir breaks down from a hand cart to a bed.

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: Longhunter on May 27, 2012, 11:12:45 AM

Quote

After 25 years on a forklift having my spine pounded into the bottom of my skull i need a bed. Also i need to use a CPAP to sleep.

Im thinking of buildng a hand cart/ wagon made out of my bed parts so ir breaks down from a hand cart to a bed.

I hear ya Brother...When ya get that hand cart/bed made you could sell the plans to the rest of us old coots... :laffing

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: greggholmes on June 03, 2012, 05:01:00 AM

http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingasso ... 16&t=17203 (http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=17203)

Title: Re: Camp suggestions
Post by: huntinguy on June 06, 2012, 03:41:43 AM

Quote from: "Longhunter"

Quote

After 25 years on a forklift having my spine pounded into the bottom of my skull i need a bed. Also i need to use a CPAP to sleep.

Im thinking of buildng a hand cart/ wagon made out of my bed parts so ir breaks down from a hand cart to a bed.

I hear ya Brother...When ya get that hand cart/bed made you could sell the plans to the rest of us old coots... :laffing

That would be a Travois. Spacers near each end. Leather straps to hold it tight, or just a blanket in a tube shape. Kind of a marriage between the traditional travios and a folding cot.

And, a big dog to pull it.

this should give you some idea.

http://www.womenofthefurtrade.com/wst_page16.html (http://www.womenofthefurtrade.com/wst_page16.html)