Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Hawks and Knives => Topic started by: RobD on June 27, 2019, 04:45:08 PM
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i cut off the business end of a 3/8" brass ferrule and stuck it in a piece of hardwood. i used that to smack down a .526 ball wrapped in .015 cloth. it worked well as a test. then i drilled into my patch knife handle and epoxied in the "ball smacker".
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the ramrod i used yesterday was 3/8" diameter aspen, with a 3/8" ferrule at the jag end ...
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... and a 5/16" ferrule at the ramming end. this smaller ferrule makes it easy to insert that end into the stock's rod hole, and its end is concave for pushing a patched ball down the tube. no need to fiip the rod for ball ramming, it's just an up down thing. I tapered the rod to blend in with that smaller ferrule. both ferrules are epoxied in as well as brass pinned. the smaller end also has a hole that will allow inserting a nail for hand leverage or for a cord for dry ball pulling.
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I do like the idea of cutting down on the amount of stuff we tend to carry around. Use your patch knife and forget the short started - great :bl th up
Aspen for the ramrod? First I have heard of doing that. Why not. You did a nice job on mounting the rod tips. I have found that using a tubing cutter on the rod will give a nice sharp edge to mount to, FWIW.
John
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i used oak for that handle and cut the scales from some home depot wood i had on hand. it appears i stained it with LMF colonial maple under some tru-oil. i really like that knife a lot, it's green river copy with a long rifleman's blade in thick steel.
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it rides in a front mounted sheath on the last bag i sewed up, always at the ready.
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Rob, I like that idea :bl th up
On those Denny Ducet videos there's a feller there that always uses the handle of his knife to start the patched ball. I'm now a wondering if he has something similar on his knife handle?
John, I too use a pipe cutter when installing tips on ramrods. It works great! :bl th up
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i'm NEVER gonna use a short starter, that just ain't my style. but i no longer have the thumb strength to force down a .015 patched ball, so i'll cheat a bit with the patch knife "starter" addition. once i can get the patched ball into the rifling, the ramrod will do the rest.
in the first denny vid, it's roddy who was seen using the handle of his huge patch knife dagger to get the patched ball past the muzzle. i didn't see any kinda wart on that handle so i'd say it was flat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArm7ObVs5c
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That's the guy! :hairy
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I have a couple of solid brass slabs on the handle of my "scalper" for startin' balls at the muzzle. :bl th up
(https://i.imgur.com/W4Vjo5p.jpg)
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that'll git er done. rondo. same as i used to do with the flat of the patch knife handle, and as roddy does.
there are two immediate drawbacks, though, in that if the patch/ball is tight the balls sprue flat is gonna get lots flatter, and the ball will get flush to the muzzle at best, and that won't facilitate cutting off the patching. unless, like how roddy used the rounded end of his knife handle to depress the ball a tad down past the muzzle in order to slice off the patch strip.
the knife handle "smacker nub" insures the ball goes down a bit past the muzzle, and its concave shape helps preserve the ball's forward roundness.
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that'll git er done. rondo. same as i used to do with the flat of the patch knife handle, and as roddy does.
there are two immediate drawbacks, though, in that if the patch/ball is tight the balls sprue flat is gonna get lots flatter, and the ball will get flush to the muzzle at best, and that won't facilitate cutting off the patching. unless, like how roddy used the rounded end of his knife handle to depress the ball a tad down past the muzzle in order to slice off the patch strip.
the knife handle "smacker nub" insures the ball goes down a bit past the muzzle, and its concave shape helps preserve the ball's forward roundness.
I guess I've never noticed that,.... I've been usin' the "scalper" to start tight patched balls since the late '80's.
As with many things "traditional-muzzleloading related",... YMMV. :bl th up :)
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Personally, I tend to like the thought that the ball and patch will go down a "smidgen" past the muzzle, for those times I am cutting at the muzzle.
Cuttin-at-the-Muzzle was the only way to roll for many years, especially when I subscribed to the Dutchman's thinking on all things lube.
But then I somehow allowed others into my thinking processes, and since than I have been riding that Roller Coaster know as "your mileage is sure to vary", because lube does indeed have a variety of flavors, just as ball starting, and doing away, completely, with that Short Starter has an appeal unequaled by recent developments that I have read about anytime lately.
In my way of thinking.....a good, tight, properly lubed, patch & ball, requiring a smidgen of swaging upon entering the rifled bore, will, in all likelihood, give a better performance by any measure, than whatever is in second place, and this appears to be another very simple method for doing just that.
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Personally, I tend to like the thought that the ball and patch will go down a "smidgen" past the muzzle, for those times I am cutting at the muzzle.
Cuttin-at-the-Muzzle was the only way to roll for many years, especially when I subscribed to the Dutchman's thinking on all things lube.
But then I somehow allowed others into my thinking processes, and since than I have been riding that Roller Coaster know as "your mileage is sure to vary", because lube does indeed have a variety of flavors, just as ball starting, and doing away, completely, with that Short Starter has an appeal unequaled by recent developments that I have read about anytime lately.
In my way of thinking.....a good, tight, properly lubed, patch & ball, requiring a smidgen of swaging upon entering the rifled bore, will, in all likelihood, give a better performance by any measure, than whatever is in second place, and this appears to be another very simple method for doing just that.
I'm in the same camp as you Russ... Truth be known, I can cut myself just looking at a knife it seems like anymore... :o
As you know, I've done some testing with smaller ball diameters and heavier patching for ease of starting patch and ball, but the accuracy one has to give up going this route is just not worth it. Truth be known, I really didn't see a lot of time saving anyway - in loading a loose fitting patch and ball combo,,, course, my life didn't depend on speed in my testing and the reality is, if it did,,, I'd just forget the patch and go powder and ball... After all - after that first shot a person's barrel is gonna be pretty fouled that the ball should stay down on the powder and your barrel just becomes a smoothbore at that point. So for me,,, I'm back in the tight patch & ball camp. :shake
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IMHO, there is no question that tight balls rule for best consistent accuracy. :shake
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This is yet another great thread. I love the ball smacker and tapered ramrod ideas and also like knife mounted on shooting bag. That's just nice work.
But the entire thread has a wealth of both interesting and informative comments. Once again, thanks to all for freely sharing. I learn something new every time I open up the Forum.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArm7ObVs5c
notice a few other things that roddy does during a load that i also do ....
* the ramrod goes up and down - it never gets twirled around
* he bounces the rod to ensure that the patched ball passes thru any bp crud in the chamber so there's no air space, it gets seated well on the powder, and it's given a consistent powder compression
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* the ramrod goes up and down - it never gets twirled around
* he bounces the rod to ensure that the patched ball passes thru any bp crud in the chamber so there's no air space, it gets seated well on the powder, and it's given a consistent powder compression
That's definitely the way I do it with the ol' ramrod. :bl th up
Twirling it extends the loading time for sure.
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I would like to share some thoughts on this same subject.
To bounce, or not to bounce?.....
That was a question, back in the 60's and 70's, that received more comments than Lube. While the question of Lube may never be resolved, because, to me, it's to much like picking your favorite child.
However, the question on bouncing the rod has been settled, at least in my mind.
I have favored bouncing so long, that I can now tell by the sound if I have a well seated ball.....of course, I always use a brass tipped rod just for that reason.
It hasn't always been that way! For years and years I listened to the masses, some theories were presented so eloquently you had no choice but accept it as fact...then another great theory came along, then another, and on, and on it went.
The difference between a "hard" seat and a soft seat is best seen on the target, with you doing the seating AND you doing the shooting.
Of course, time is always a factor!
I suspect a quick, follow-up shot or two rules out bouncing completely.
Or, a timed event of 5 aimed shots in one minute, or less.
But if you're punching paper for grins & giggles, bouncing can produce some pretty handsome dividends.
It's one of those things you just have to prove to yourself.
Having said that, I'll add that if you are perfectly content with with your present groups, and your current method of seating, please don't change anything.
At the same time, don't go changing lube when "hard" seating is what you really needed all along.
And, never, ever, change any two variables at one time!
Good marksmanship with a Muzzleloader does not come overnight, and no single person is gifted enough to turn-in consistent 10X targets, on every range session, which is TOTALLY different than ringing a Gonger, so don't let lesser Paper scores discourage you, keep at it. Keep ringing that Gonger, and keep shooting that piece of paper, it's good for the soul!
This my friends is what it's all about.