larger caliber southern mt. rifles

[IronDawg]

Or for some of you "medium sized" calibers....

It's come to my attention in my reading of books on the subject as well as posts here on this site that the majority of southern mt. rifles were between 25-44 calibers.

Now I realize this was mainly done due to the fact that "back in the day" you could take the powder and lead needed for ONE SHOT in a 54 caliber and turn it in to "TWO SHOTS" in a 40. therefore it was way more economical to shoot. But with that said. I would think this design or type rifle sort of evolved and grew up with the focus on smaller calibers. To me this would translate to a rifle designed NOT for bigger bores.

I've saw some examples of tennessee "bar" rifles and know a few of you guys have ten. guns in the 50s and 54 cals.

But my question is this. Would a 50 or 54 caliber so. mo. be as accurate and maintain it's handling abilities as well as it's little brothers?

There are rifles out there that were originally built and designed for larger calibers such as 50-62s. This was the emphasis the builders had in mind when they built the rifles. Would they be a better option for the larger bores than a southern mt. in a larger bore?

I guess what I'm asking is would the design of a southern mt. rifle have it's parameters pushed for a larger caliber like 50 or 54  and would a different type rifle be a better option for this sized caliber?

I know my my poboy just balances and feels like nothing else in this world and shoots better than anyone (especially me) expected it to. But it's a small caliber. I also know my plainsman shoots great as well and is built like a tank and actually "feels" like it was meant to be a big ol fat 54 cal.

I know alot of this is because I'm feeling the balance difference in a 44" long swamped barrel of medium small bore versus a 32" straight barrel or larger bore. But should I expect a 50 or 54 caliber so. mo to balance and feel like my 44 cal so mo?? Or should I look at another design? Other than my lyman my so mo is pretty much all I know. And as I research and read and try and find info and parts for my next one......it's hard for me to look in any other direction for my "big flinter"

[FG1]

I have an original Bean style rifle built by one of his reletives J Gross and it has a heavy 1.125" swamped barrel that was around 38 cal. . The bore was rough and I had it bore cleaned up to 45 cal. and there is still lots of meat on the barrel . It doesnt have a real radical swamp to the barrel like a C wt. barrel of a 54 of todays standards and is quite heavy in comparison but sill balances well . So in my opinion a Tenn. Bean style would balance out quite well in a C wt. swamped 50 or 54 cal. rifle .

[pathfinder]

My go to rifle "Pox" is a So. Mt. in .50 cal and off the bench at 50 yards it cuts a clover leaf. 7/8" green Mountain barrel,42",70grs 3F,.495 ball and pillow tick patch. Balances perfectly and if I do my part,We are hard to beat.  

I recently traded away a .50 smoothbore So. Mt. with a swamped Colrain 42" barrel and it to handled wonderfully. I've re-barreled Dixie So. Mt. guns with a 15/16ths barrels in .54 cal and they to shot and handled very well. It's my humble opinion the the southern guns are the most pleasing to shoot,no matter what caliber and barrel.

[IronDawg]

oh WOW! gee thanks Pathfinder! ya makin this even harder!!

I was thinking along the lines of a 36" swamped barrel. almost regardless of the type rifle I chose. Not sure of the wieghts. I'm gathering ABCD constitutes varying thickness or wieght sizes of barrels?? does this relate also to the actual measurements (13/16ths, 7/18ths, 1") as well

[James Kelly]

The late C.W. Slagle had a southern mountain rifle for sale, on his website as late as january this year, described as:
"
52 caliber flintlock, 45" octagon barrel, “London Waranted” on original flintlock.Iron bent trigger guard and one forward ramrod thimble. Curly maple stock with check piece, and grease hole. Made without a butt plate."

Really primitive style, I liked everything but the $4500 price. Looked just like it had been made using a hatchet & likely a draw knife, but no rasp.  I have the photos as word doc's.

[pathfinder]

Yes IronDawg, the rest of the measurements will follow the breech dia. I would stick to 1" as being the largest breech, any larger and it tends to throw off the Balanced look of the gun,especialy if you want to use a shorter barrel.

[david32cal]

i gotta agree with Pathfinder,the southern mountain style rifle is the most pleasing to shoot and to look at,i love the looks of them. my .50 has the same 42" 7/8 Green Mountain barrel as Pathfinders and is very well balanced.i shoot a pillow ticking patched .490 roundball over 70grs of 2FF and she is deadly accurate.











'

[rickevans]

David, that is a fine looking kit!

[pathfinder]

Some mighty fine plunder there David! The Dixie is going to make yer fine lookin' piece there AWFULLY jealous!
I may as well say it here,I've kinda invited myself to David's fer some squirrels next year, and since I'm a Who*** when it comes to muzzleloading,I'm going to do the TMA shoot at Swamps place and David's. Perhaps we can logisticly work it out to have a Tma  shoot at both location's? Just throwin' it out there. We can move it to events if we need to.

[tg]

I am not sure how the heavy breeches of a larger bore gun would look like with the narrow slim lines of a S. MT gun I would use a late flint period English lock.

[Pete_Sheeran]

Iron Dawg,
I, like most people, think of the So. Mtn. Rifle as a small caliber, relatively long and plain iron mounted rifle.  Not all were light in weight.  There were earlier forms of the SMR that were larger caliber with long barrels, iron mounted and also rather plain but of an earlier styling with larger butt plates and trigger guard more resembling the Early Virginia rifles.  You might want to consider using an earlier style for .54 or larger caliber.  The stock is better suited to a larger diameter breech.  That style rifle would have been built and used during the initial settling of the trans Appalachia area and would have looked more like an early and plain “Kentucky” rifle.  It was a more dangerous area with larger game at that time.  That would also be more apprioate for the "Long Hunter".

There must have been some of the larger caliber SMR in Tennessee even in the late 1820’s.  Davy Crocket in his biography (the one dictated by him, not the two others that forced him to “set the record straight”) had a whole chapter about the year that he killed 105 bears!  I don’t think he did that with a small caliber rifle!

Pete

[IronDawg]

Pete,

Some of the books I have here show several tennessee mt. rifles on 50, 54 and even 58. They called em "bar rifles"

I know most of you guys are more in to "period correct" than stylistically suiting. So I'll ask this. Is there any limitations to drop in comb and at the butt that would rule a rifle incorrect?? I think the reason i shoot southern mt.s and tenns and such so well is the drop fits me better than some of the straighter rifles.

[Pete_Sheeran]

I think you have your answer to the question on large caliber So.Mtn.Rifles!  And on the comb drop question, I have seen originals with lots of drop.  One of the mountain made  Gelispie rifles in Bivens book on Carilonia guns had 4 inches of drop in the butt!  If it fits ya, it can't be wrong.  I think that is why so many people love to shoot them.

Pete

[IronDawg]

Mt so.mo is made from the exact specs of an original Gillespie built in Union county Ga. To the point that the original was so far beyond repair that *MY* so.mo. sports the originals butt plate and trigger guard.

On the above 50 flinters. are they a "c" type barrel?? or are they a barrel size that can be attained in 54??

[Mike R]

Many of the southern rifles we see today were made late when calibers on average had declined along with the big game--you see alot of .38s and such [hog rifles]. But bear rifles were made up to at least .58.  Deer rifles were commonly in the .40s. I have handled Tenn rifles of .54 and they were finely balanced, but the slim lines are often sacrificed. My .45 Tenn is real slim and light--lighter than my .32 ['cause the hole is bigger!], but the bigger bore barrels start to get thick and end heavy.  I had a .58 half stock with a 36" bbl that weighed a ton, but I traded it off...