Your TMA Officers and Board of Directors
Support the TMA! ~ Traditional Muzzleloaders ~ The TMA is here for YOU!
*** JOIN in on the TMA 2024 POSTAL MATCH *** it's FREE for ALL !

For TMA related products, please check out the new TMA Store !

The Flintlock Paper

*** Folk Firearms Collective Videos ***



Author Topic: Speaking of "Short Starters"  (Read 2455 times)

Offline AxelP

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2019, 11:59:48 AM »
I have often loaded while walking, (both my smoothbore and my rifle) but never tried it at a run...

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7338
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2019, 03:46:28 PM »
I have often loaded while walking, (both my smoothbore and my rifle) but never tried it at a run...

Interesting thread!  :bl th up

I have also loaded while walking.
It's not as difficult as some might think it is.

My own .69 smooth bore, while Quail hunting, has been reloaded several times while "moving around', sometimes walking, sometimes just kicking at brush.....often putting the shot directly on the powder, and sometimes even forgetting the OS Card, and several times having to look around to find my ramrod.
It's very aggravating to me, and some may say it's even dangerous, but I have done it quite a bit while when hunting California Valley Quail,.... Quail that often prefer to run on the ground instead of flying.
I'm pretty sure Steve Sells is very familiar with this crazy bird.
And, they can get out-of-range pretty dadburn quick, so you need to move around quite a bit yourself...loading while you move.
In the excitement you will immediately recognize the fact you forgot the Over Shot card....often a Wooosh, and smoke is about the most you get, while you hear the shot falling on the brush/leaves/dry mesquite, whatever, not that far in front of you.

I can pour a "pile" of powder in the palm of my hand and get enough, whatever enough may mean, at the same time I will recognize too much, or not near enough. Black Powder is just NOT that critical IMHO, extreme accuracy will require more precision when using PRB, but shot is a whole 'nother world.
(I have practiced this quite a bit over the years by simply dumping my 80gr measure in my hand, then cupping my hand a bit and pouring it down the barrel.
In fact, I remember shooting a match in Las Cruces, NM back in the late 1970s where everyone had to do the same.
Nothing remarkable came of that match as far as my accuracy.
Back then I think I was a registered B Shooter, and anything over 20 hits out of 40 was a good day.
There was also little change in the  A, AA, and AAA shooters score on that day, so I decided right then and there that, while a powder measure was nice to have for own piece of mind, it would never be a an absolute total necessity.)   

Some "stories" I read, such as that of Wetzel is hard to believe once I think it about it a bit, but both the Wetzel, and Kenton stories I do believe happened, and not only that, but I can imagine it has happened more times than what has shown up in print. .
This is not only possible but very doable, once you've tried it a few times.....insofar as accuracy from such shots, I would never put too much stock in that.  The "target" would have to be pretty close to even expect very much.
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Online Winter Hawk

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2428
  • Location: Chauncey, OH
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2019, 04:14:05 PM »
My comments are more directed towards riflemen behind stockade walls or from some form of cover, be it rock, tree, hill, or any combination mentioned.

Roger that, but if it came to close quarters combat just dumping some powder down and dropping the ball on top of it, maybe some type of wad to keep the ball on the powder could save the day.  And if it got too close it was time for the tomahawk!

What I remember from my reading over the years, inside a stockade or fort the riflemen were on the wall while the rest of the people (women, kids, wounded) were reloading guns and handing them up.  Just don't ask me for a reference, I'm just pulling this out of the dim recesses of my memory.  :laffing :laffing :laffing

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2025

Spotted Bull

  • Guest
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2019, 05:28:54 PM »
I believe that there are several references to doing the whole "loading on the run" thing in the Journals of Lewis and Clark, as the men raced to both evade and overtake bears...

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2019, 07:28:21 PM »
The fouling in the barrel should also aid the ball staying on top the charge - and granted it would depend on the circumstances you would find yourself in whether or not you'd have time to ram something down on top the ball regardless if rifled or smooth bore. I mentioned leafs as my mind pictured Kenton in an eastern woods setting.

I too have read accounts about hunting buffalo from the back of a galloping horse such as been mentioned... In the end, one does what one needs to do to get your food, or save your life from a wild animal, or keep your hair on your head...

I also agree with Kees,

 
Quote
And if it got too close it was time for the tomahawk!

One last thing I want to mention after reading Uncle Russ' post, which got me to thinking,,, I don't know if it would even be possible for a "todays" muzzleloading barrel to blow with a bare ball load if the bare ball rolled forward in the bore...  After-all, the undersized ball is not really obstructing the gasses from the powder charge as those gasses build (but at the same time) they should also be "being blown" past that undersized ball. Now with the old barrels our ancestors used - the way those barrels were made may very well present a questionable out come.

Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2019, 10:37:01 PM »
I sure wouldn't try it. Just me, unless my life was at stake

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I would not recommend trying it either.  :shake
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline JB67

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • TMA: Supporting Member #833
  • Location: NY
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2019, 07:56:25 AM »
Something else I was going to mention in my post above but completely forgot.

The subject of lead used today for balls -vs- the pure lead used 200+ years ago for balls.

Now I'm no expert on lead - but was the lead softer 200+ years ago through no additives as I understand we use today and yet maintain a soft enough ball to fill today's modern barrel grooves?

If their lead was a softer lead through no additives - that would fill the grooves very effectively and even make loading a patched ball easier to load as well.

Do we have a lead expert that could jump in here and give us some thoughts on this?
I've been wondering the same.
All men have fears. The brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death but always to victory.

Offline AxelP

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2019, 11:40:14 AM »
Isn't it the patch that actually engages the rifling? The obturation of the ball does help seal the bore that is true. But I think the idea is for the patch to fill  and engage the rifling.

I know when paper patching a lead bullet in bpcr, the paper patch protects the bore from getting leaded due to the soft lead used and it also engages the rifling. actually the rifling cuts the paper off the bullet which makes sure the paper does not alter the flight of the bullet as it exits the barrel.

K

Offline AxelP

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Speaking of "Short Starters"
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2019, 12:20:43 PM »
practice... I am reminded of the famous marine saying “If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan properly."