Post by: Stormrider51 on February 19, 2015, 06:54:14 PM
Storm
Post by: prairie dog on February 19, 2015, 08:03:44 PM
I need to try some 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce loads on clay targets.
I'm new to shot loads and smoothbores and there is a lot I haven't tried yet. Pattern boards will tell you a lot.
Post by: biliff on February 19, 2015, 08:23:06 PM
Post by: Feltwad on February 20, 2015, 08:14:21 AM
Feltwad
Post by: Loyalist Dave on February 22, 2015, 10:59:25 AM
LD
Post by: Fort Greene Ville on February 28, 2015, 10:04:36 AM
If I may chime in here? First off I will post this link:
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/
Bob's Black Powder Notebook, Bob has a wonderful site that gives excellent information on shooting and smoothies. Add it to your favorites because you will want to return!
As for what I load; I have a heavy Colrain barrel 42", I only shoot 3fg Goex (never got great ignition from 2fg).
for a shot load for turkey or pheasants it is 55 grain powder 1-5/8 oz of a #4/6 shot mixed 50/50
for round ball it is 70 grain powder behind a .600 patched ball.
I load as described in Bob's writings which is always; powder, thick card, shot or ball and thin card over shot.
I have never patterned the shot but I have taken a pheasant flying away at 40 yards as well as cutting the top of a deer's heart at 35 yards. Now I'm not bragging here, just examples of what has work. I have been shooting only flintlocks for the last 12+ years.
Like I have said earlier Bob's Notebook is essential reading!
Good Luck and Enjoy !!!!!
Post by: lefty41 on February 28, 2015, 10:50:47 AM
Post by: Kermit on July 06, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
If you spend time patterning, I think you'll find, as did Starr, that heavier charges and felt cushions tend to blow holes in patterns. Most folks would be well advised to lighten up and stop imitating shotshell loads. If a 20ga won't do in a given situation, go to a 16 or 12.
Post by: greyhunter on July 07, 2015, 08:36:16 AM
Post by: Feltwad on July 07, 2015, 11:34:31 AM
I have always used a volume load on all bore sizes of shotguns the only time that I may change is on the big 4 bore these guns are proofed for 10 drms of black powder 1Fg or coarse is the best to 4oz of shot to shoot half of that load is quite ample.I use 2number 1/8 card wads over the powder and 1/16 card over the shot Never use any wads that are thinner than 1/16 because they can become lodged on the bore wall this then becomes an obstruction which will result in a bulge or burst barrel {see image}
Feltwad
A burst barrel caused from a thin card
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/Ramrod_2006/P1010010-3.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Kermit on July 07, 2015, 03:20:37 PM
Post by: cyotewa on July 09, 2015, 11:51:37 PM
Post by: RobD on August 07, 2015, 05:52:41 PM
"Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead.
More powder, less lead, kicks hard, wide spread."
Post by: Loyalist Dave on August 20, 2015, 07:50:14 AM
LD
Post by: Joel/Calgary on August 31, 2015, 06:02:14 AM
Quote from: "Loyalist Dave"
That's a nice rhyme....defies Newton's laws...but catchy, none the less.Newton's laws say nothing about pattern density, which is what this is about. This has been "common knowledge" since at least the early 18th century. The equal-volume load has always been the starting point, but it's often been found (then and now) in unchoked smoothbores that having more shot than powder (by volume) increases pattern density at some cost in velocity. As with most things in muzzleloaders, each combination of gun, components, and loading technique can be a law unto itself, but lots of us have found that our optimum compromise between velocity and pattern density comes with more shot than powder, often something close to the old recommended ratio of 4:3 ("1/3 more shot than powder"), and I've seen turkey loads cited where the shooters are using 1/2 more shot (3:2 ratio), often with larger shot like #5.
Regards,
Joel
Post by: Loyalist Dave on September 06, 2015, 11:53:37 AM
LD
Post by: Joel/Calgary on September 06, 2015, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: "Loyalist Dave"
Less powder, more lead = less MV so less range (so not so very "far" and reduces penetration)....,This presumes that the only factor limiting effective range is penetration. With unchoked barrels and traditional loads, breech- or muzzle-loaded, pattern density often runs out before penetration. Traditional load development in unchoked barrels is an optimization problem in penetration and pattern density, with the variables of shot size, shot-charge weight, and powder charge (both granulation and weight), and with recoil one of the limiting factors and a generally inverse (but complex) relationship between velocity and pattern density. Adding choke into the equation drastically, perhaps fundamentally, changes the relationship between velocity and pattern density, and consequently drastically changes this optimization exercise.
Regards,
Joel
Post by: Loyalist Dave on September 11, 2015, 07:26:46 AM
Quote
This has been "common knowledge" since at least the early 18th century.
Really, well I'm not the first to find fault with proverbs of this sort,
"Although proverbs are generally true, or at least possess some portion of truth; yet nothing is so glaringly absurd, or less founded in rational principles, than that old adage, “sparing of powder, and liberal of shot:” a saying, which is not only in the acquaintance, but in the constant practice of most sportsmen."
Cleator 1767
LD
Post by: Joel/Calgary on September 12, 2015, 01:32:01 AM
Quote
Really, well I'm not the first to find fault with proverbs of this sortOK, forget entirely about what was reported as observation back when these were the only firearms and components in use. The same observations about shot size, shot charges, and powder charges are frequently reported today in achieving a balance between pattern and penetration for maximum range in unchoked muzzleloaders. You can have all the penetration you want, but when you run out of sufficient pattern density, you've run out of effective range. What is sought is an optimum balance between pattern density and penetration for a particular set of applications. This more-powder-than-lead for maximum effective range not universally observed, but is common. As is often observed, every combination of gun, components, and loading technique is unique, and nothing in muzzleloading is universal except variability: what works for an individual works, regardless of what some one else may find. Naturally, chokes and other devices/methods to tighten patterns change the dynamics of the shot charge - choked guns often shoot tighter with more velocity, at least up to a (somewhat variable) point.
Regards,
Joel