New (to me) Uberti "Hawken", looking for information

[sclearman]

I made a trade yesterday, that I almost feel bad about.  I'm pretty sure the guy had no information or interest in what he had.
What I got was an Uberti .54 caliber half-stock cap lock rifle.  I have done a bit of reading, here an elsewhere, but can't find information on this particular rifle.  I am aware of the Uberti "Sante Fe Hawken", and the other versions, but my understanding is all of those have other markings on them.    I'll post some photos if i can (not sure of the board rules on that).
So, let me describe what I have;
Half stock of what appears to be stained Walnut
Barrel is roughly 32" and deep blue
nose cap appears to be steel and browned
2 wedges appear to be blue steel, and are mismatched
2 wedge mounting plates appear to be silver(ish), maybe sterling?
Butt plate is color case hardened, not sure if it is true CCH, or a fake finish
Toe plate (I assume that what it is called, a separate piece of steel on the bottom of buttstock and against butt plate is also steel and CCH
Blued double triggers
Trigger guard is CCH
breech plug and nipple bowl are CCH
Tang (where barrel tilts in) is also CCH
Flat sided hammer is CCH
Lock plate is CCH
Barrel is 1"
 Silver blade front sight
non-adjustable buckhorn rear sight in dovetail.

the only markings on it are on the barrel, on top it says "A.UBERTI-MADE IN ITALY" and "54 CAL"
One flat has  "BLACK POWDER ONLY" and several proff marks on both barrel and breech plug.
another flat has what I assume is a serial number "A20851" on it.

So, What have I got?  Is it anything special? There are some features I dont like on it, but before I did anything I wanted to make sure I got an idea what I have.
Trade also came with a really nice leather possibles bag from Leatherman.  

Love to hear your thoughts and if possible I will answer questions if I can.

[prairie dog]

Don't know which Uberti rifle you have, but Leatherman bags are nice.  About $190 for the ones I have.

[rollingb]

Hi Scott,.... if your rifle is indeed a Uberti "Santa Fe Hawken", it's probably a .53 caliber (rather than .54), and shoots a patched .520 round ball.
The rifles themselves are very well made, good shooters, and are a pretty authentic copy of a real "Hawken".

Pictures would really help to identify what you have,... and if I remember correctly at least one of our TMA members (ridjrunr) has a "Santa Fe Hawken", so he may have more information about your rifle.

[sclearman]

I thought all the Sante Fe versions had "Sante Fe NM" on the barrel.  This one doesn't. I'm wondering if this was a kit gun?

[sclearman]

I'll get some pics of the thing, might be a bit.

[rollingb]

I thought all the Sante Fe versions had "Sante Fe NM" on the barrel.  This one doesn't. I'm wondering if this was a kit gun?

Nope, I'm sure of that.  :rt th

[Bigsmoke]

That was the only version of the Hawken rifle, to the best of my knowledge.
If it says Uberti, that is it.
I don't recall seeing the Santa Fe, NM stamping on the barrel, but it could have been there.  IIRC, Santa Fe was where the primary importer of the Uberti firearms was located, back in the day.
Here is what I found in the 6th edition of Bluebook of Black Powder Firearms
Allen Firearms
Previous importer located in Santa Fe, NM, importing Uberti and Co reproductions and replicas until early in 1987.
After Allen Firearms closed, Old West Gun Co, now Cimarron FA Co, located in Fredricksburg, TX, purchased the remaining inventory.  Since all guns sold by Allen Firearms were manufactured by Uberti, they even used the same catalog...
The listed value of one of them at 100% was $395 in 2009
Anyway, great rifle.
The only other Uberti rifle listed was their St. Louis rifle.
I have shot .530 in them, but loading was accomplished with a hammer.  Use .520's.
I am not aware of any being delivered as kit rifles, but could have been.
There you go.
John

[freddy]

I have the "kit" version of your rifle. Purchased from TotW in 1980's. Came in a styro box, metal parts finished but not blued, stock ... well, I can't tell but certainly not walnut, perhaps plain maple. Essentially "in the white" as all parts fit together nicely. I browned the metal parts myself.

I also bought from them a 0.520" mold labelled "Palmetto" and "Italy". Quality as nice as Lyman, fits Lyman handles.

Fine barrel, loads go down smoothly, shoots OK, used it in cross-stick matches where it performed well. Lock is snappy, set triggers OK.

Could be the factory version has a walnut stock and color case hardened metal parts.

[sclearman]

Photos now:

The total trade package


The bag


The rifle


















The muzzle is white as opposed to the rest of the barrel, almost like it has been cut, very little crown

[Bigsmoke]

That is exactly the way they came, with the muzzle that way.

Incidentally, that is one of my powder horns that I made a while back, MSRP probably was about $60.00 or so.  Silly me, I never really kept track of what the horns sold for, had price lists and computers to do that for me.  Pretty nice horn.  Should remember it as I made very few black horns.

[rollingb]

Are there any balls in the ball-bag that you can mic to see what size they are?

Your rifle isn't the first Italian-made rifle I've seen with a muzzle that looks as though it's been "cut off".
Your's seems typical.

It also looks as though one of the wedge-keys may a "replacement".

[sclearman]

Incidentally, that is one of my powder horns that I made a while back, MSRP probably was about $60.00 or so.  Silly me, I never really kept track of what the horns sold for, had price lists and computers to do that for me.  Pretty nice horn.  Should remember it as I made very few black horns.

Seriously? How can you tell?  Very cool though.

[sclearman]

Are there any balls in the ball-bag that you can mic to see what size they are?
........
It also looks as though one of the wedge-keys may a "replacement".

It came with a new unopened box of Hornady .530" balls.  inside the ball-bag are .520".

Where would i find correct replacement pins?

Also, what would be a reasonable value on this outfit?

[rollingb]

Are there any balls in the ball-bag that you can mic to see what size they are?
........
It also looks as though one of the wedge-keys may a "replacement".

It came with a new unopened box of Hornady .530" balls.  inside the ball-bag are .520".

Where would i find correct replacement pins?

Also, what would be a reasonable value on this outfit?

.520's are the correct size for your "Santa Fe Hawken".    

You might measure the length, width, and thickness. of the wedge keys in your rifle,... then visit the "Track of the Wolf" online catalog and find what closely matches those dimensions and order 2.  

[rollingb]

Lee offers a .520 "gang" round ball mold, at a very reasonable price (IMHO).  
   Lee .520" round ball mold, six (6) cavity mold blocks, with cam-action sprue plate, for Santa Fe Hawken rifles, and other tight .53 and .54 bores, requires Lee handles - Track of the Wolf