Post by: peterh on January 23, 2017, 06:11:25 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 23, 2017, 07:07:09 PM
Other folks who've bought one, said they've had to return 4 or 5 guns in order to get 1 that was serviceable.
Again,... that's just what I've heard "through the grape vine",.... and thought I'd let you know.
Post by: Ohio Joe on January 23, 2017, 08:47:29 PM
I really think they're use is more geared to the Hollywood movie props myself. I just don't know if I'd trust a charge in one of 'em.
Post by: larryp on January 23, 2017, 09:55:57 PM
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on January 23, 2017, 10:04:07 PM
And they are kinda hit and miss on the finish of them
I looked at 3 and thought one was done very nice but the other two had a lot of proud wood around the lock and trigger guard etc
But the quality was there in parts
That's was at a local Cabela's
Post by: larryp on January 23, 2017, 10:07:36 PM
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on January 23, 2017, 10:09:57 PM
I would go Pedersoli
Plus I think it would hold its value better later on in life
Post by: rollingb on January 23, 2017, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: "Lonewolfe20"
Side by side there is no comparisonThat's for sure!
I would go Pedersoli
Plus I think it would hold its value better later on in life
Post by: Ohio Joe on January 23, 2017, 10:55:48 PM
How about a build? Parts from Track of the Wolf?
Post by: Ohio Joe on January 23, 2017, 11:05:40 PM
Quote from: "Ohio Joe"
Maybe see if Matt has any smoothbore kits left up there at North Star West? Unless it has to be a bess?
How about a build? Parts from Track of the Wolf?
Well, doesn't look like Matt is taking anymore orders at this time because of health issues, and I didn't realize the price of these have went up quite a bit. Not taking anything away from NSW, they're a heck of a trade gun for sure!
Post by: rollingb on January 23, 2017, 11:12:45 PM
Quote from: "Ohio Joe"
Maybe see if Matt has any smoothbore kits left up there at North Star West? Unless it has to be a bess?Pecatonica River Long Rifles, has Northwest Trade Gun "parts and components" for $528.00
How about a build? Parts from Track of the Wolf?
They also have "parts and Components" for an Early Fullstock Fowler,.... though I don't see a total price for those.
Northwest or Trade Gun, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply (http://www.longrifles-pr.com/northwesttradegun.shtml)
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on January 23, 2017, 11:13:58 PM
Post by: Ohio Joe on January 23, 2017, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Quote from: "Ohio Joe"Maybe see if Matt has any smoothbore kits left up there at North Star West? Unless it has to be a bess?Pecatonica River Long Rifles, has Northwest Trade Gun "parts and components" for $528.00
How about a build? Parts from Track of the Wolf?
They also have "parts and Components" for an Early Fullstock Fowler,.... though I don't see a total price for those.
Northwest or Trade Gun, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply (http://www.longrifles-pr.com/northwesttradegun.shtml)
That's not bad at all for a trade gun kit!
Pecatonica River Long Rifles has been a round for some time. Can't say as I ever heard anything negative about them.
Post by: rollingb on January 23, 2017, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: "Lonewolfe20"
Do you have any experience with pecatonica I have looked at their website acouple timesI've never bought anything from them,... but I've seen some pretty nice stuff built with their parts. (especially their gun stocks
)
Post by: Ohio Joe on January 24, 2017, 12:13:17 AM
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2017, 01:09:25 AM
Quote from: "Ohio Joe"
As I read over the prices, I believe that does not include the price of their stocks for each muzzle loader.You made me go look again,.... and I think you are right about stocks not being included in the price.
Taking that into consideration, I'd say Pecatonica and TOTW parts-kits, are going to cost about the same.
Post by: Hank in WV on January 24, 2017, 06:02:09 AM
Post by: rollingb on January 25, 2017, 10:53:05 PM
Quote from: "peterh"
I am thinking of buying a brown bess, as i have a very limted income for things that go bang(my other hobby needs money as well). I am thing of buying the 3rd model from Loyalist arms as at $599 it is just in my price range.If you are a little more concerned about the price rather than the "type" of smoothbore,.... I found this Northwest Trade Gun "kit" on Sitting Fox's site for $599.00
MuzzleLoader Guns (http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k-40/)
They've got other smoothbore kits too, but they are priced a bit higher.
Post by: Stormrider51 on February 10, 2017, 04:36:27 PM
Bear in mind that everything I'm about to say from here on is my experience with one gun from one importer. My India Bess arrived well packaged. The stock was oily and had enough extra wood to make another stock. Okay, just kidding on that but it was in need of some serious slimming. Wood to metal fit was poor with very visible gaps. There were splinters missing from around inletted parts. I later learned that the wood used was teak, a very dense, heavy, and hard to work substance.
Next I installed a flint and tried the lock for spark. At least I tried to. The trigger pull was somewhere off my scale and a man could get a sprained finger trying to get it to release the sear. When the sear did trip the hammer (cock) often fell into the halfcock notch. When the sear did clear and the hammer fell, it failed to open the frizzen completely. To me, these were all correctable problems although I did have cause to wonder about the claim of the lock having been checked before shipping. I treated the lock like a kit and went through it step by step. I noted that the steel seemed soft and too easily cut with a file. A couple of hours later I had a functioning lock. There was still a noticeable gap between the frizzen and pan but Peter at Middlesex assurred me that it should be fine as long as I used FFg powder. This turned out to be true provided I loaded and fired immediately. On a couple of early morning bunny hunts I learned that even FFg would manage to dribble away resulting in a misfire. The lock went back to Middlesex and they made good on their guarantee. Frizzen to pan fit was at least acceptable when I got the lock back a week later.
I said my experience was mixed. Once I had the India Bess shooting it turned out to be more accurate than a Pedersoli Bess I had acquired during this time. That's the only thing I can claim in favor of the India gun. Bottom line, and as noted based on one experience with one Made in India gun, I'd save my money and get the Pedersoli. Otherwise, accept that you may need to treat the lock of your Bess like a kit and correct its ills. Not bad if you have the tools and skills to do the work yourself. Not so good if you have to pay a gunsmith to do it.
Take care,
John
Post by: Uncle Russ on February 11, 2017, 02:23:53 AM
Uncle Russ...
Post by: peterh on February 11, 2017, 09:37:47 AM
I was also looking at Loyalist arms web site as they seem to have better write ups.
peter
Post by: greggholmes on February 13, 2017, 07:10:00 PM
I think its a good gun to get your feet wet and then trade up to a higher quality or custom made. again its my opinion that they are good starter guns. I really dont like it when people tell new people to save up for a Rolls. they may lose interest and move on to another hobby. thats not to say they shoud buy junk and get frustrated either. there has to be a happy medium.
i have no affiliation with Middlesex or any other gun maker or seller.
these pics are right out of the box before any cleaning. you can see the lock has been tested.
Brown bess - Google Photos (https://goo.gl/photos/oKXcyPp6YHrPVe2N8)
Post by: rollingb on February 13, 2017, 08:34:29 PM
Post by: peterh on February 14, 2017, 09:13:08 AM
I do thank every one for there comment's and info.
As some one said I don't need a Roll's Royce just some thing to get me from point a to b.
Post by: Stormrider51 on February 14, 2017, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Good post john! :hairy
Uncle Russ...
Thanks Russ. Always glad to see beginners on the forum and willing to help any way I can.
John
Post by: greggholmes on February 20, 2017, 01:40:27 AM
Post by: Rocklock on February 20, 2017, 10:21:08 AM
I don't know what your major is, mine was Economics and I spent a 40 year career in purchasing. From all of that experience I ask can you afford to throw away the cost of the junk gun (that you won't be able to sell for more than pennies on the dollar) and then buy a decent one? Or have you made up your mind and only looking for confirmation? Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.
Post by: MacRob46 on February 20, 2017, 10:34:26 AM
The only Indian made gun I own is a Scottish all metal pistol, a Murdoch, which I got from Middlesex. It has a slight resemblance to the original but the graceful lines of the originals are not there. The frizzen is poorly hardened and barely sparks. It eats flints like they were free, since the mainspring is far too strong. The trigger pull is horrendous. The bore is rough - the drill marks are readily apparent. I would not shoot it with ball on a dare. It is a wall hanger and nothing more.
Two or three years ago, one of the gun magazines did a comparison of an Indian made musket and a similar Pedersoli product. The first challenge for the reviewer was to get the Indian made gun to fire! The Pedersoli was good out of the box. After extensive modifications involving much time, effort and some money, he decided, quite correctly, that the Pedersoli was better and a better buy.
The Indian guns are not proofed, they are stocked in Teak, which sometimes has soft spots and voids, the metal work is mediocre, and in many cases the guns do not, IMHO, closely resemble the originals they attempt to duplicate. Add to that the unknown origin of the steel that goes into making the important bits of the guns and you have potential for many problems.
As someone else suggested, save up a bit more and look for a good used Pedersoli or even a new one. I think you will be much happier with it.
Post by: RobD on February 21, 2017, 06:27:36 AM
if you must have a bess, the best price for a Good new gun will be ... yep, pedersoli.
you have been well advised, sir! :bl th up
Post by: Mad Irish Jack on March 01, 2017, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: "Lonewolfe20"
I've looked at the PedersoliI had a Pedersoli back in the later '80s through the mid '90s. But, I bought the kit in the white; everything was fitted well and just some minor sanding and polishing. It's now being treated well in the hands of a British Sgt. out of Johnstown, PA. I don't know if he shoots live with it. I did. 90 gr FFg, .015 cotton patch around a .735 rb. This load was a target destroyer on the range. My shot load was 90gr FFg, OPC, 1/2 Cushion wad, 135 gr any size shot, OSC. With the roundball, I had to center the bayonet lug on the breech, and lower it until it disappeared. I had to pull the trigger the moment it left my sight. To soon, shot high; little late, low. The center was perfect. But the vertical was testy. So, I filed a 'V' in the center of the lug, and silver solder a piece of brass brazing rod into it. Now my front sight picture was set. I would lower the lug until I saw the top half of the brazing rod. Looked like a small bump on the breech. With my rb load 25 and 100 yards were the same sight picture. I could crack 8 of 10 clay birds at 100 yds on most range days. I was the range buster. If you didn't have solid, well built steel targets I'd break them. I harvested deer, pheasants, rabbits, squirrel, ruffed grouse, woodcock, and quail. One deer, a doe I shot, was hit on the bottom half of the spine above the shoulders. She flipped over one and a half turns from a 45 yard shot. The power surprised me. I got three deer with that gun. I've had 10 flintlocks and 1 perc long guns, and a pistol and revolver in the BP game. Not including handguns, I've harvested 28 deer in PA, all seasons, with BP firearms. And a lot more with other modern guns and bows. The weapon isn't as important as your proficiency with it.
And they are kinda hit and miss on the finish of them
I looked at 3 and thought one was done very nice but the other two had a lot of proud wood around the lock and trigger guard etc
But the quality was there in parts
Post by: greggholmes on March 02, 2017, 01:38:56 AM
Rocklock Enthusiasts Public Group | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/greggaholmes/videos/10155074225919529/)
Post by: MacRob46 on March 02, 2017, 07:44:54 AM
Quote from: "greggholmes"
this is my Middlesex Bess out of the box spark
Rocklock Enthusiasts Public Group | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/greggaholmes/videos/10155074225919529/)
Congratulations on getting one that does produce a significant amount of sparks. There are many which do not.
Post by: rdstrain49 on March 04, 2017, 09:15:16 AM