Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: ballen1900 on November 26, 2017, 08:04:21 PM
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Hi All,
Been lurking here for a while, but just finished my first muzzleloader - Lyman .54 GPR in flint. I know, nothing period, but I wanted some relatively easy experience, and I wanted a flinter that was a step up from something like a Traditions.
Fired it 4-5 times today to get the flint sort-of working, but now I see why everyone says to replace the lock - it's hard to get consistent spark with the Investarms frizzen even with a good flint that's flat and straight. But I eventually got it to fire. Next up is getting it sighted in at the range.
Here's a couple of pics (hope they come through). Finish is 6 coats of natural Watco with 6 coats of satin wipe-on poly - quick and easy.
Bill
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Are you not sparking or is the prime not flashing?
Positioning of the flint in the jaws can make a LOT of difference.
Where are you located? There may be someone near by who can save you a lot of typing and frustration.
TC
Near Austin Texas
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Did you build from a kit ?
The finish looks Awesome :bl th up
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After the first few shots (or even after the 1st shot or throw) tighten your flint again to make sure it's not loose when striking the Frizzen, and it is sharp and has good leather holding it in the jaws.
If you're using "cut flint" switch to the Tom Fuller Black English flints from Track of the Wolf. (You can request "flat top flints)
Are you using real black powder? Flintlocks don't like the fake stuff.
At half cock, the edge of your flint should be no more then 1/16th inch away from the Frizzen with the pan closed - the striking edge located about 1/3rd down from the very top of the Frizzen. Sometimes you have to flip the flint over to get there.
Don't give up on that flintlock. You're in for a world of enjoyment! :bl th up
This video may be of some help;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rb0s3YAGOA&t=32s
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Thanks guys for the pointers.
Rocklock and OhioJoe: Not getting consistent sparks. I'm using Tom Fuller flints. I have been using them upside down (flat-side up), to get the strike up near the top.
On the first one, I didn't have it perfectly square to the frizzen, so it took a corner off. I may be able to re-knap it later. The next one worked better, but still only get enough sparks to light the powder maybe once every 2-3 hits. I'm using Olde Oxford 2F (real stuff) for both the load and the prime. When the pan lights, it fires every time. At half-cock, the flint is resting on the frizzen (it won't close completely), even though the flint is up against the clamp screw. I'm using a thin piece of suede leather to hold the flint so that I can get it back in the jaw as far as possible. It seems to be solidly held, without any movement.
I'm beginning to think that the cock isn't positioned on the shaft correctly, because it doesn't seem to make sense that nothing fits quite right.
Hylander: Yes, it's from a kit.
Oh yeah, I'm near Everett, WA.
Bill
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Even though you are using thin leather, you can get a few more .000" clearance by punching an appropriate size hole in the middle of the leather to clear the top jaw screw. That might or might not help, YMMV. Without seeing exactly what you have, it is hard to tell. Just an old trick i learned somewhere in the distant past.
Joe, that was a great video. Rather enjoyed listening to him talk, but closed captions would have made it easier. Been a while since I heard the frizzen called a hammer. Had to smile a bit.
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Rather enjoyed listening to him talk, but closed captions would have made it easier. Been a while since I heard the frizzen called a hammer. Had to smile a bit.
Yes, I noticed that too and over looked it. Just about the time I wanted to find something that may help on flint positioning - lol,,, this was all I could find. :Doh!
Other then a few word plays, it gives a decent walk through. I know there has to be something better out there in the youtube world. :shake
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Not getting consistent sparks. I'm using Tom Fuller flints. I have been using them upside down (flat-side up), to get the strike up near the top.
Hmmm, something isn't right. Anyway, can you post a picture of that lock with the flint you're using in the jaws? kinda like to see that front edge of the flint and the frizzen face. Sometimes pictures can say a lot.
Big Smoke has touched on something that maybe your problem. If that flint is to far forward - it very well may be knocking that frizzen open to quickly and the flint is not having enough time to drag down the face of the frizzen and create sparks into the pan. IMHO, the flint must be timed with the frizzen to create good sparking conditions.
Here's a good Video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVxK7ThHeEA
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If you haven't already, try turning the flint over with the bevel up. It just might need to be a little farther away from the frizzen.
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Rocklock and OhioJoe: Not getting consistent sparks. I'm using Tom Fuller flints. I have been using them upside down (flat-side up), to get the strike up near the top.
Try turning the flint over and see if you get better clearance. The strike doesn't need to be near the top; on both of my CVA and the L&R lock on my T-C the flint hits the frizzen somewhere between half way and 2/3 of the way up.
Also, I believe the GPR uses 5/8" flints, which gets confusing because that's the width of the rock but the length is also in relation to the width. If your flints are on the long side, besides punching a hole in the leather to allow them to back up against the screw, you can also knap a notch in the back of the flint to back it up even further.
~Kees~
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Hi again,
Here's some pics of the way things fit. First is to show where the flint strikes the frizzen when the flat side is up. Second is at half cock, flat side up. And third, is half cock, flat side down. As you can see, if you move through the arc from this position, the flint hits the frizzen pretty close to the bottom. I tried dry firing it like this and only got a couple of very anemic sparks. Doubtful it would light the powder.
I certainly do appreciate all the advice and help.
Thanks,
Bill
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Thanks for the pictures.
First thing that comes to mind is the flint is striking high enough when facing up. Second thing that comes to mind is trim some of that leather off the bottom of that flint jaw so it's even with the front part of the metal. It's possible it may be acting like a "bumper/buffer" not letting the flint scrape down and stay on the frizzen every time you pull the trigger.
May as well trim the leather at the top as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/hNqjhoq.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hNqjhoq)
(http://i.imgur.com/LeAUHHh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/LeAUHHh)
Give that a try and let us know. :shake
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When you do get sparks, what color are they? If they are red, your frizzen is probably too soft. (boy, my spell-checker sure doesn't like the word frizzen).
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One last thought.
I would also try knapping that flint and getting it as far back as possible against the Jaw Screw so that the Pan closes completely... If none of this works, try a flint that is not so "humped-backed" and try a little thicker leather to hold it in the Jaw.
Okay. one other thing. Is it humid where you shoot? If so, after the prime going off in the pan (I use a q-tip to wipe out the pan and the other end to wipe around the vent hole, and frizzen foot that covers the prime.) It doesn't take long in humid weather for failure to ignite the prime (or ignite the prime and not have the charge go off). In short, keep the ignition area as dry as possible.
My routine in humid weather if this is your case?
Wipe pan and vent hole area, wipe frizzen face and foot
load
wipe pan and vent hole area again, wipe frizzen face and foot again
pick & prime (I fill my pan with prime keeping the powder level and just beneath the touch hole. (Everyone has their own technique, but it's what you find that works for you - then keep it that way all the time.
Check out what Hank suggested on the spark color. You never know, a frizzen not hardened enough may have slipped by when manufactured?
good luck
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ballen1900, A few more suggestions if you can stand them: (1) Add a 1/8" pc. of wood (old paint stirrer) or leather (old belt) to raise the flint (bevel down). (2) Use a new 1/4" drill bit spun with your fingers to cone the outside of the touchhole [liner] for better ignition. (3) Open the touchhole to 5/64" if none of the other suggestions (mine & everyone else's) solve the problem. Lastly, it's possible that your frizzen needs to be rehardened, but that's pretty much a last resort if nothing else works. Good luck and let us know how things go.
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ballen1900, A few more suggestions if you can stand them: (1) Add a 1/8" pc. of wood (old paint stirrer) or leather (old belt) to raise the flint (bevel down). (2) Use a new 1/4" drill bit spun with your fingers to cone the outside of the touchhole [liner] for better ignition. (3) Open the touchhole to 5/16" if none of the other suggestions (mine & everyone else's) solve the problem. Lastly, it's possible that your frizzen needs to be rehardened, but that's pretty much a last resort if nothing else works. Good luck and let us know how things go.
(3) Open the touchhole to 5/16"
Hey Maven, I think you meant to type 5/64ths?
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Good catch, Joe: I surely didn't mean 5/16" :Doh! Fixed it though! Btw, did you notice how low & thin the front sight on that Dickert rifle was?
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Good catch, Joe: I surely didn't mean 5/16" :Doh! Fixed it though! Btw, did you notice how low & thin the front sight on that Dickert rifle was?
I did notice that Maven. I think every rifle and smoothbore that Hank in WV and I looked at when we were at the Fur Trade Museum this past year (Chadron Nebraska) all had those low Rear Sights and low thin Front Sights. Now I found that interesting and I'm tempted to try a low sight set,,, but I don't think I'd be able to see the front sight clear enough anymore.
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Ok, I managed to do a bit of work on it this afternoon. (1) trimmed the leather back to the edge of the jaws, top and bottom. (2) Knapped a notch on the back of the flint and got it back about another 1/16", now the frizzen closes all the way; and (3) lightly sanded the face of the frizzen with #100 to get the whole face down to clear, bright metal.
It fired the primer 6 out of 6 times, but by the time I did all that it was too dark to actually shoot it. It seems to be getting there. I'll go to the black powder match at my local range this Saturday and see how it goes.
And yes, Western Washington at this time of year is extremely humid - we grow moss in our arm pits (and elsewhere). I thought of that, too, and have been wiping down the pan, frizzen and flint with acetone in between tests to help keep things clean and dry. I know, they didn't have acetone back then, but they did have moonshine :toast, so close enough!
And really, thank you for all the help. I'll probably have more questions after Saturday, but it seems to be headed in the right direction now.
Bill
:hairy
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we grow moss in our arm pits (and elsewhere)
:lol sign
Sure good to hear you're getting good results now. :hairy
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I expect that 100 grit sandpaper might work on those armpits also. Handy stuff. :Doh!
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I expect that 100 grit sandpaper might work on those armpits also. Handy stuff. :Doh!
:Doh! Hank, Hank, Hank.....what's a mother to do??
And yes, Western Washington at this time of year is extremely humid - we grow moss in our arm pits (and elsewhere). I thought of that, too, and have been wiping down the pan, frizzen and flint with acetone in between tests to help keep things clean and dry.
Ya may be having a small problem with that GPR, but you sure do have the weather down pat!
It ain't no better here in the Columbia Basin either, but we do have a nice stock of sandpaper should it decide to get as bad as the coast side.
That side of the Mountain has 3 seasons, July, August, and Rain....with no change in sight.
Keep yer chin up, right now 6 outta 6 ignitions, on that side of the mountain, is something worth crowing about this time of year!
Yer going to whup this puppy, I feel it in my bones......just keep yer powder dry.
Uncle Russ..
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(2) Use a new 1/4" drill bit spun with your fingers to cone the outside of the touchhole [liner] for better ignition.
Maven, I've always liked the idea of coning that touch hole a tad... I've got a pointed counter sink bit I use and I just touch the face of the vent hole with it. Have to admit I've not done my Lyman GPR vent hole as yet (I've only had it 12 years, ha!!!), but I've coned all my other flintlock vent holes.
I don't live in a high humidity area, though I do run into it from time to time and I've found carrying some cotton balls in my shootin' bag can come in handy at times. I've even twisted them onto my patch puller and ran them down my bore. The cotton balls can actually work better then the q-tips at times for the lock areas on high humidity days I've found out. Just some food for thought. :shake
Oh, and I almost forgot,,, "Pipe Cleaners" another great item to have with you for running into the vent hole.
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One more option once you get your flint adjusted correctly.
I spoke with a flint knapper this past May. He also shoots a flintlock.
He knapped up a flint for me and while he was doing it he mentioned he found if the flint leading edge had teeth or a knapped look, like an arrow head does he gets better spark over the straight knife edge.
I have shot this flint over 75 times. Readjusted as needed & knapped it up a few times as needed. I spoke with him and had 12 more flints hand knapped by him.
So far he is correct the rough straight edge cuts steel far better than the flat straight knife edge.
Also make sure the bore /breech touch hole area is clean clean clean.
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ballen1900, A few more suggestions if you can stand them: (1) Add a 1/8" pc. of wood (old paint stirrer) or leather (old belt) to raise the flint (bevel down). (2) Use a new 1/4" drill bit spun with your fingers to cone the outside of the touchhole [liner] for better ignition. (3) Open the touchhole to 5/64" if none of the other suggestions (mine & everyone else's) solve the problem. Lastly, it's possible that your frizzen needs to be rehardened, but that's pretty much a last resort if nothing else works. Good luck and let us know how things go.
I drilled out my vent like said above, but of course, that doesn't make better spark, my gpr was a good sparker and accurate to boot. good luck, experiment with different flints, my guess.
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Well, my day at the range was a bit of a bust. I think the biggest strike against me was that it was dumping rain. We have a covered shooting area, but it was cold and really damp none the less.
In the 2 1/2 hours I was there, I think I got it to fire 4 times. And those 4 shots were pretty much a surprise each time, so needless to say, sighting it in was just not in the cards.
So, the problems were basically the same - no spark, and when it did, I usually just got a pan flash. When it actually fired, I think all of them were pushing close to a hang fire, or at least a very noticeable delay.
From the advice I got from a couple of other flint shooters there (although they were all shooting caplocks yesterday!): (1) experiment more with the flint - different types - agate, etc. until I find something that sparks consistently; (2) go to 3F powder (I've been using 2F), and go to a lighter load if need be (3) bevel the touch-hole bushing and finally (4) get a caplock, and save the flinter for summer!
Not sure about the last one, but I am thinking about a L&R replacement lock. At least the frizzen would be a known good item.
Bill
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Bill, You may not need a replacement lock, but may want to have your frizzen properly rehardened so that it throws the proverbial "shower of sparks" in the pan.
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Hmmm.... No sparks hitting in the pan, hang fires,,, and all this in high humidity/rain...
I'm sure your groups advice is sound, they've been shooting in these conditions and recommend the caplock in these current conditions. Now in a controlled area (like the other day when you got 6 good pan flashes - no moister conditions), I just kinda think it's "moister" related. I like the idea of 3fg powder.
Now,,, could the frizzen need re'hardened? Possibly... Drilling out the vent hole to 5/64ths (most certainly I would)... Giving the face of the vent hole a small bevel, absolutely...
Will a new replacement lock solve all the above problems??? Maybe, maybe not??? Will re'hardening the current Lock's Frizzen help??? Again, maybe - maybe not...
I would suggest (but it's entirely up to you),,, when the opportunity presents itself to get your rifle out to the Range in "not so humid" conditions, take advantage of it and see if after enlarging the vent hole and beveling the face of the vent hole a tad - see if it helps...
Now, one last thought. How much priming powder are you using? (Full Pan, 2/3rds Pan, 1/2 Pan, 1/3rd Pan, a combination of all?) I've got locks that work great with very little prime, and others that require 2/3rds Pan of prime. Just have to find what works best for your flintlock ignition.
Flintlocks are finicky in wet weather, there's just no two ways about it. Your best bet is to keep that vent chamber as dry as possible and free of oil and moister. Same goes for the pan. One thing you can do is plug your vent hole before and after loading - then pull that vent plug (feathers work great) - pick the vent hole - wipe the pan - prime - and then aim and fire... Work a pipe cleaner into the vent after firing - wipe the pan - then repeat the loading and firing process.
Again, I do think your results would be better in dryer conditions, but for now it's all guess work and don't feel you're all by yourself with this current problem, we who shoot flintlocks have all been there at one time or another. :shake
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Thanks Joe!
I'm off today, so will start on the mods to the touch-hole insert. Also, we're actually supposed to have dry weather this week (unheard of at this time of year!), so might be able to try things out under drier conditions. I have a little bit of 3F powder, so will try that in the pan, once I get everything done.
The 3F for the load will have to wait till I can get up to the Hawken Shop on Widbey Island (only place to get BP around here).
And thanks to all for the suggestions and advice! I'm pretty sure our ancestors figured out how to hunt in the winter, so where there's a will there's a way.
Bill
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You are welcome Bill.
Let me throw in one more thought here... After cleaning your flintlock, run a pipe cleaner through the vent hole as far as it will go, then store your rifle with the barrel pointed down... After a'while (let's say an hour or better) - remove that pipe cleaner and run a dry patch down it then store it muzzle up or muzzle down (but muzzle up should be okay). You never know there could be just enough moisture in that GPR anti-breach to give you fits with load fouling at the vent.
It's an old trick for both cap and flintlocks to get every drop of possible moisture/oil out of the breach and bore... :bl th up
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Joe,
OK, that makes sense. Should I store it (say muzzle up) with the cleaning rod, jag and dry patch left down at the breach? That might assure that there's no moisture or oil down there. Just a thought.
I made the mods to the touch-hole insert today. Also installed a new flint (Tom Fuller from TOTW) and cleaned everything with Birchwood-Casey bore cleaner and then acetone. I tried some 3F in the pan, and it fired the pan just fine, but it's dried out a lot today compared to Saturday. I can shoot on my property (only about 30 yds), but had a roofing crew here all day, so didn't want to scare the crap out 'em! Once they're done, I'll try a few shots and see if the mods make a difference.
Thanks again,
Bill
PS I assume from your moniker that you're originally from Ohio (but now Nebraska)?
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Should I store it (say muzzle up) with the cleaning rod, jag and dry patch left down at the breach?
No, do not leave the jagged dry patch in the bore. Patches are cotton and cotton draws moister. I'd just store the rifle, muzzle down, it won't hurt it a bit. :bl th up
PS I assume from your moniker that you're originally from Ohio (but now Nebraska)?
That is correct. I know a bit about humidity from the 860 foot elevation I lived at in Ohio near 30 years ago. Out here in the northwest corner of Nebraska I'm at about 3700 ft. above sea level. A whole lot less humidity out here, and a nice place to live. :bl th up
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OK, Thanks.
I lived in Columbus from1982-1990 while going to OSU, so know Ohio pretty well. Liked it, but don't miss the winters. :laffing Course up here in Washington, we have three seasons - July, August and Rain.
Bill
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In North Idaho we had four. July, Rain, Snow and Mud.
We always enjoyed the change of seasons, especially when they don't follow any particular pattern.
The other sub season we had there was road building season but that was not in any particular place, so we'd just say, "and road building season". :lol sign
In 1967 I was stationed at Ft. Lewis from April to October. During the summer we went over a month without rain. People were starting to talk about drought conditions. Really.
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bigsmoke,
I know. Growing up in So. Cal., hot is anything over 105 or so, but here they start complaining about the terrible heatwave when it hits 80. :laffing But then on the other side of the coin, I'm freezing my arse off when it gets below 45 and the natives just run around in tee shirts and say what nice day.... Oh well.
Bill
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Bill, you're right on all accounts regarding the weather In WA State.
The other thing that likely should be mentioned regarding the weather, is the fact that Washingtonians, especially the Seattleites, are the mother of "Flip-Flops and socks", in the dead of winter.........
Can you say "Dorkey"? :Doh!
However, it's 'the thing' amongst the younger group, as it supposedly goes well with their low slung shorts, that is always showing their underwear....Hanes, and Fruit of the Loom, have never had so much free advertising.
Jus'sayin
Uncle Russ...
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:laffing :laffing :laffing
Just saw yur post Russ! I crack up about all the folks on this side of the hill too. I guess they think its cool to be cold, haha! Tough guys...
Just an update on the flintlock. I think I've got things sorted out a bit better. The current flint seems to making good sparks, and drilling out and counter-sinking the touch hole bushing has made a world of difference in the speed of ignition. I also think I was over-filling the pan - it really seems to like 6 grains (2 pumps from my priming flask), which looks like way to little, but it goes off fast and reliably. I shot it a few times yesterday, and it worked very well. The weather here has been cooperating too, so that helps.
I think now I can start sighting it in at the next BP range day. BTW, what is everyone's opinion (I know everyone has one) on the sight picture for old-fashioned buckhorn sight (the adjustable one that comes with the Lyman GPR)? I know from reading that a lot of you don't like them, but that's what I've got for now. I've been trying to hold with the front sight right just filling the rear groove, but it seems to be so low that I'm completely missing the paper at 50 yds. (although from the last outing at the range, that might not be a fair judgement since I couldn't get the d**n thing to fire reliably).
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill, I personally like the rear fixed sight, but that's just me. I would suggest sighting in at 25 yards first before sighting in for 50 yards. I like to end up at one inch high at 25 yards and then I use a 6-o'clock hold offhand (guessing as best I can one inch low of center) for our Annual TMA Paper Silhouette Shoot that's shot from 25 yards offhand, but again - that's just me.
My hunting rifles are sighted in for two inches high at 25 yards and at 50 yards I just aim center (perhaps shading just a bit high), and at 100 yards I then just aim (what I perceive to be) 4 inches high of center.
Now this all comes down to caliber and charge no matter if you're shooting - say a .40, .45, .50, or .54,,, but find the best load that will work for you at the distance you want to shoot and be sighted in for.
Volumes could be (and have been) wrote on this subject, but in the end it's what works best for you. :bl th up
I'm one of those "windage & elevation" guys - taking my best guess at where to aim at different distances. After a'while it just becomes secondary and you just seem to know.
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Joe, Very sage advice on the use of those GPR sights, IMHO.
I do the very same thing to a "T", been doing that for many years, and it seems to work just fine. I have no desire whatsoever to change the sighting, or try something different.
(Did we ever discuss this in years past? Somehow seems we did.)
Bill, when you say; "The current flint seems to making good sparks, and drilling out and counter-sinking the touch hole bushing has made a world of difference in the speed of ignition. I also think I was over-filling the pan - it really seems to like 6 grains (2 pumps from my priming flask), which looks like way to little, but it goes off fast and reliably." ....Those two things right there, my friend, is a little something that many will go through life looking for, even after being told that it works, and works well for most folks....
You hang in there, you're well on your way to becoming a real "Rock Lock Addict".
Uncle Russ...
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It doesn't take a whole lot of prime. You want the flame to come up to the touch hole. Too much and the powder can block the flame, or even the burning powder can suck the flame away from the touch hole. You might see what just one pump will do - I'd bet it will work just as well as two pumps.
I tried one of those priming chargers when I was in Ketchikan. The humidity was so high that the powder in the charger would turn to paste. I would empty it out when I got home and leave it that way until I went shooting again, and even then it would gum up and the spring inside would rust. I gave up on it and went with a nasal spray container. That was over 20 years ago and I still use it when I'm not priming from the horn. Not terribly PC, but I don't think Ted Cash's charger is either (although it looks the part).
~Kees~
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Joe, Very sage advice on the use of those GPR sights, IMHO.
I do the very same thing to a "T", been doing that for many years, and it seems to work just fine. I have no desire whatsoever to change the sighting, or try something different.
(Did we ever discuss this in years past? Somehow seems we did.)
Uncle Russ...
Russ, I kind'a recall a discussion about this very thing sometime back. How far back escapes me, but I'm sure we had a thread on it at one time. :shake
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Back to the original questions. I forgot to mention in my last post that many folks tip the rifle so the prime ends up away from the vent, for better ignition. I think this depends on the individual gun, and the only way to determine if you need to do it is by doing it for a while so you can compare how the rifle shoots that way with how well it functions without doing so.
Here is a photo I took today of how much primer I put in the pan. It often is a little less, sometimes a little more. It gives you some idea of what will work.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
My experience with an adjustable rear sight has been that, somehow, it will get adjusted out. I've done it when cleaning the rifle and wanting to make sure the barrel is greased under the sight. In fact, (and this is a true story!) I missed the Easter Bunny by just that process. I had raised the rear sight to get a greased patch under it, then neglected to bring it back down. Several days later I walked out of the cabin and saw a bunny - well, varying hare (Snowshoe Rabbit) but let's not split hairs - sitting about 20 yards away. I duck back inside, grab the rifle, step out, get a firm rest and touch off my first shot. Bunny doesn't move. Reload and try again. Bunny still does nothing. Once more into the breach and this time the little guy hops on down the bunny trail. I figured with such a charmed life, it must have been the Easter Bunny! :laffing Only then did I notice the rear sight was at maximum elevation. :Doh! So I prefer fixed sights which are a lot harder to get out of adjustment!
~Kees~
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Say Bill (ballen1900), I was just doing some clean up and going through some stuff on my desk and I found one of my old Lyman GPR User Guides. Anyway, on page 5 they show the flint edge to the Frizzen facing up (like, you, me, and who knows how many more GPR Flintlock owners probably do). Just thought it was interesting and would pass it on.
Sounds like those flint wow's may be a thing in the past for you. Good to read your last outing was successful. :bl th up
Hope everyone enjoys a happy Christmas and great New Year!!! :shake
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I just never worry about tipping the rifle to get prime in the right place. To keep it there one would have to carefully tote the rifle in a particular position which is impossible in the bush.
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I just never worry about tipping the rifle to get prime in the right place. To keep it there one would have to carefully tote the rifle in a particular position which is impossible in the bush.
That's a good point, Hanshi. I don't worry about it either, I just use what works for me and not worry about it. :bl th up
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I think it's more to do with shooting in a match rather than when out hunting.
~Kees~
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I think it's more to do with shooting in a match rather than when out hunting.
~Kees~
I could see that. They always say to keep everything the same that works for you, so the prime wouldn't be any different I would think. :bl th up
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I think it's more to do with shooting in a match rather than when out hunting.
~Kees~
I can see that....in fact, in a Match, I actually do that very same thing...slap that side of the lock a time or two, with the gun tilted to the right.....at least I think that's what I do.
Then I cross myself 3 times, say a couple of Hail Mary's, and let 'er rip.
Nooo, just kidding.
But I actually give two little plunges of 3gr dispenser to the center right of the pan. I suspect I do that whether I'm in a match, or hunting, or just punching paper.
I can clearly see Hanshi's point.
Think about it.....After I have packed that thing at that just right balance point for an hour or two, than carried it over my shoulders with one hand on the rifle barrel, the other on the stock...with lock up, and then hung it off my shoulder with a sling and the stock down, unless it's drizzling rain, then I carry it with butt up and the barrel down.
:Doh!.....it's amazing that thing ever shoots! Think about what that powder is doing in the pan all this time I'm doing all this nonsense!
Here in Washington State, rain or shine, during the late season if you ain't dumping that prime and re-priming, at least every 45min or so, that flinter ain't going to shoot properly...in fact that prime will look like mush.
I hunt with a flinter 'just about' as much as I do with a cap buster, maybe just a little bit less, but I always take two guns, and I never leave home without a flinter.
I fact, thinking about that right this minute, I honestly believe my Penn Longrifle is my all time favorite carry rifle for hunting...the balance on that thing is absolutely amazing. I love that old girl!
It's just the luck of the draw that I have shot considerably more game with a cap buster, I don't think I ever shot an animal that I couldn't have just as easily taken with either gun, it's just when I pulled the trigger I was toting a capper on that particular day.....
Russ...
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This does make one think of how much prime our forefathers used for prime? I would guess a soldier when priming his musket probably didn't care so much - just get it in the pan and the rest of that charge/load down the bore.
Wonder how much prime Boone & Crockett used?
I guess when I think about it, after I prime my flintlock, I do roll the lock in toward me - then back out away from me - and then back to its upright position when target shooting. Couldn't say how much prime I use (maybe a 3rd of a pan?) Don't seem to have any issues on ignition, but the area I live in here in Nebraska is less humid... Back in Ohio it was always humid it seemed like...
In this picture my priming smoke is hanging, but the ball is well on its way to the target... Perhaps a bit to much prime on this shot / or the timing of the picture was just right to make it look so?
(http://i.imgur.com/IxFF1MU.jpg) (https://imgur.com/IxFF1MU)
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I read somewhere that some soldiers of the line used more prime than was necessary and let the overflow go to ground so there was less powder for the main charge--in order to lessen the recoil of their brown bess. Not sure how often that occurred.
I use whats in my horn for prime UNLESS I get a misfire, then I will dig into my bag for my little ffff primer horn and use that. I rarely use ffff priming powder when hunting because it seems to attract more moisture than coarser powder. I too will change out my prime about every 45 minutes or so when hiking in the woods. I will generally use 6 to 9 grains of prime. This fills the pan up to the bottom edge of the vent hole and maybe a tad more depending on how generous I am at the time. If I am in a rush, I might end up with more or less prime. Most times it eventually goes off either way.
anyone have their flintlock go off without any prime at all? I have heard that can happen too.
K
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Ken, Long ago in a galaxy far away, which would equate for me to the late 70's up in Idaho, I had a Brown Bess and if I closed the frizzen before loading, the touchhole was so big it would self prime (even with Fg powder). Guess that could equate to going off without priming? It would also consistently fire upside down.
Regardless, selling that old musket I do consider a mistake. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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anyone have their flintlock go off without any prime at all? I have heard that can happen too.
I haven't had that experience. I have had an unprimed rifle with powder and ball in her, which the State of Ohio considers unloaded, where while driving enough powder jiggled through the touch hole that it had a prime.... The vent is hand drilled out to 1/16" and it had FFFg Goex for the charge. After that I make sure that the lock is UP when driving to another hunting area!
I have also read that the Bess had a large enough touch hole that the soldier could pour powder down the barrel from the paper cartridge, then bump the butt on the ground several times to get powder into the pan, and then seat the paper cartridge w/ball. I don't know the truth of that claim, though.
I suppose a spark from the frizzen could bounce out of the pan and through the touch hole (vent), so one would not want to drop the cock on the hammer of a loaded piece, just for safety's sake!
~Kees~