Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Darren Haverstick on July 18, 2018, 08:23:30 AM
-
I have a 54 caliber flintlock rifle that has the Colerain 42" C-weight swamped barrel. Right now I am shooting 65 grains of FFF powder under a patched round ball for deer. Next year, I plan on taking this gun with me to British Columbia for a moose hunt and was wondering if I should start messing with my load. Please tell me what you all are shooting in your 54's.
Thanks,
Darren
-
I use 80 grains of 2f with a PRB in my .54 flintlock, but it only has a 26" barrel. This is my hunting load, dead on at 50 yards, and about 2" low at 75 yards, which is as far as I will shoot with iron sights, as the eyes are not what they used to be. For target shooting i use 70 grains of 3f. Pretty much the same trajectory, and I don't know why I don't use this load for all shooting. Force of habit I guess, cause I developed the 2f load first, it shot great. I will probably continue to use it until I run out of 2f, then I will resort to the 3f load for all shooting, hunting and target.
-
hi darren! :wave ;D
mine is 55 grains of swiss 3f under a patched .526 ball. right, i'm not hunting moose. 8)
all shooters, guns, loads, etc. will have variables. only true way to know what's gonna work is via testing. testing means finding a charge and payload that is reasonably accurate for the maximum ethical distance that you'd pull the trigger on a critter. since the patched ball won't and can't be changed much for weight, it will come down to the powder charge and how tight a load you wanna deal with in the field. increase the powder charge until either maximum range accuracy suffers or the fired gun is spitting out unburned powder. that's about it, imho.
good luck on the hunt and please do a write up on it here (with trophy pix, too!) :bl th up :wave :*:
-
I haven't shot a moose with a .54, but I have with a .58 and since moose are pretty heavy boned, a hardened ball will punch through bone (better than a pure lead ball) and keep going until it runs out of steam.
Of course that "steam" is generated by a healthy dose of powder.
If,.... I were to take a .54 moose hunting, I'd want a load that clocks about 1700-1800 FPS, and is accurate.
I would add a couple of wheel weights to my lead melt if I was casting from a 20# pot. The tin in the wheel weights would harden the balls a bit while retaining a big percentage of the lead needed for all the "weight" you can get out of that size ball.
Larry Pletcher did a penetration test with his .58 using balls he cast from recovered hard pistol bullets,... VS,... pure lead.
The pure lead balls penetrated and destroyed 3 (of the 10 water jugs he had lined up) and was found in the 4th. jug. (great for animals up to the size of elk :bl th up)
The hard cast balls shot completely through all 10 jugs of water and was never recovered. :o
I'd do a little experimentin' like that if I were you, and if you can work up an accurate load for your .54 that will shoot through 7-8 jugs of water, it should perform pretty well on moose and punch through bone if encountered. :bl th up
-
Darren, I shoot 80 grains of 2fg Goex & patched ball in my TC Hawken for deer hunting and have pretty much always had complete pass through even if I hit bone. However, my shots have been in the range of 30 to 70 yards... However you'll probably want a bit more energy for BC Moose.
I expect some folks will be along in a'while with Moose hunting information. :bl th up
I see Rollingb jumped in above me. That's good info! :hairy
-
I use 90gr-3fg with prb, for elk.Works just fine.
-
Never had a long barreled .54, but I did have one's with a 36" barrel. I used 85 grains of Ffg, .015 patch and a .530 ball. That was a prize winning combination for me, back in the day. Now? Don't ask.
As far as hunting for a bull moose goes, if it were me, I would trade that .54 in for something in the .60 to .70 caliber range. You are going to be hunting something that weighs in between 1,000 and 1,400 pounds, more or less. And you are going to be going after it with a 230 grain round ball that is barely over 1/2" in diameter? I know, it has been done before and it will be done again, but it can surely be done better. I think back on the bison I took with my .72 caliber sporting rifle. 100 yards or so, 200 grains Ffg, 555 grain round ball, dropped him from a standing position to flat on his back with his legs in the air. Pretty amazing for a 1,700 pound critter.
So, bottom line here is that regardless of the rifle caliber, you want to develop the most accurate load for the rifle that you can, and you will want to shoot at a range you feel comfortable with. Hail Mary shots really shouldn't be taken.
-
Here's a link to Larry Pletcher's test of penetration that rollingb referred to above: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49574.0
-
I haven't shot a moose with a .54, but I have with a .58 and since moose are pretty heavy boned, a hardened ball will punch through bone (better than a pure lead ball) and keep going until it runs out of steam.
Of course that "steam" is generated by a healthy dose of powder.
If,.... I were to take a .54 moose hunting, I'd want a load that clocks about 1700-1800 FPS, and is accurate.
I would add a couple of wheel weights to my lead melt if I was casting from a 20# pot. The tin in the wheel weights would harden the balls a bit while retaining a big percentage of the lead needed for all the "weight" you can get out of that size ball.
Larry Pletcher did a penetration test with his .58 using balls he cast from recovered hard pistol bullets,... VS,... pure lead.
The pure lead balls penetrated and destroyed 3 (of the 10 water jugs he had lined up) and was found in the 4th. jug. (great for animals up to the size of elk :bl th up)
The hard cast balls shot completely through all 10 jugs of water and was never recovered. :o
I'd do a little experimentin' like that if I were you, and if you can work up an accurate load for your .54 that will shoot through 7-8 jugs of water, it should perform pretty well on moose and punch through bone if encountered. :bl th up
This post from Rondo pretty much reflects my own thinking on this subject.
I fully realize "pure lead" is the desired material for round balls. However, I also realize the importance of penetration on a large animal such as a Moose, and a harder ball may be required for the best results. I also realize many moose have been killed with a pure lead round ball, but on such a hunt in this day and time, I would greatly prefer the advantage of a harder ball.
The secret here, if such could be said, is combining accuracy with speed 'cause they simply don't go hand-in-hand, as much as we would like for that to happen.
Much like all has been said here before, the shooter is the only one that can determine the best of both worlds.
As far as myself, I don't mind, not even a little bit, about shooting that "extra" powder out the barrel, with it ending up on the ground wasted, IF, and that's a mighty big "if".....should that load give me what I'm looking for.
My own experience tells me something 'good' is going to happen before we reach that point and that will be my load.
That load, sometimes refered to as "the sweet spot", is going to be different with every gun.....even with the guns all being the same caliber.
Rondo's words on "I'd do a little experimentin'" is sage advice IMHO.
Uncle Russ...
-
Disclaimer: this comes NOT from personal experience, never having shot a moose (although I've seen plenty when I lived around Fairbanks). What I have learned for other people who HAVE done so, is that moose aren't that hard to kill. Lots of them have been taken with the .30-30. Alaska regs used to require a minimum of .54 to hunt them with a muzzle loader, but that has been dropped back to .45 for all big game (although I would want something bigger for the big bears if I felt the need to shoot one of them, which I don't).
Having said that, the advice I was given w-a-y back, when developing a load use 1 1/2 times the caliber (in grains) and work up and down from there to get the most accurate load. I.e. 1 1/2 X 54 = 81 grains, with the appropriate powder for over .50 being FFg. But that is just a starting point. Find the most accurate load, then get close, aim 1/3 of the way up behind the shoulder and you should have no problems downing a moose. And be sure to post photos here, with your article about the hunt!
-Kees-
-
Thanks, all, for your advice! I'd forgotten about this thread and just now got around to checking it. I am intrigued by the hard lead balls. Does anyone know where I could buy some? I don't have the tools, or raw materials, to cast my own.
I've killed a caribou and a moose with my longbow and they both gave it up pretty quickly. I don't think there's anything as tough as a whitetail or a gray squirrel. They just don't want to die!
Darren
-
Most of the. 54 guns I have had seemed to like a heavy charge, usually 90 gr and up. One Lyman GPR liked 110 gr and a Lee Real bullet. One hole groups at 50 yards. Each gun is a law unto itself.
IronHand
-
Thanks, all, for your advice! I'd forgotten about this thread and just now got around to checking it. I am intrigued by the hard lead balls. Does anyone know where I could buy some? I don't have the tools, or raw materials, to cast my own.
I've killed a caribou and a moose with my longbow and they both gave it up pretty quickly. I don't think there's anything as tough as a whitetail or a gray squirrel. They just don't want to die!
Darren
Darren,.... how soon do you need the hardened balls?
In a couple of days I can cast some round balls up for you that contain a bit of wheel weights in the melt.
.530's or .535's (your choice) the harder balls do tend to cast a little bit on the large size. (just something to keep in mind) :)
-
Darren,.... how soon do you need the hardened balls?
In a couple of days I can cast some round balls up for you that contain a bit of wheel weights in the melt.
.530's or .535's (your choice) the harder balls do tend to cast a little bit on the large size. (just something to keep in mind) :)
rollingb, that is very kind of you to offer! I will be more than happy to pay you whatever you want. Since my moose hunt isn't until NEXT October (2019), I'm in no real hurry. However, it would be nice to shoot some of those balls this season so I can get my sights and load adjusted correctly. Whatever your schedule is will work for me. My gun seems to like .53 balls better than .535.
Thank you so much!!!!
Darren
-
Darren,.... since it's not an emergency, just PM me your address and I'll send you 100 hardened balls the next time I'm casting (probably 2-3 weeks, or maybe sooner). :hairy
-
In the vernacular, Rollingb, you're the man! :hairy
~Kees~
-
In the vernacular, Rollingb, you're the man! :hairy
~Kees~
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
-
Darren,.... how are those balls shootin' for ya, have you had a chance to try'em out yet? :)
-
While I live in the middle of moose and black bear country, Moose hunting requires too much activity that I'm no longer to physically accomplish. My only .54 is percussion with a 33" barrel. It has killed deer. I've found 60 grains of 3F to be super accurate in my .54 and I feel that is a good deer load. A deer I killed with it fell to 110 grains of 3F (excellent load) but that much is not necessary for deer. Moose are large enough that heavier loads and harder ball makes sense to me.
-
Speaking of Darren, he has an article in the latest Traditional Bow Hunter magazine on bagging a caribou. He is getting to be quite the author! :applaud : :bl th up
~Kees~
-
Speaking of Darren, he has an article in the latest Traditional Bow Hunter magazine on bagging a caribou. He is getting to be quite the author! :applaud : :bl th up
~Kees~
:hairy
Uncle Russ...