Your TMA Officers and Board of Directors
Support the TMA! ~ Traditional Muzzleloaders ~ The TMA is here for YOU!
*** JOIN in on the TMA 2024 POSTAL MATCH *** it's FREE for ALL !

For TMA related products, please check out the new TMA Store !

The Flintlock Paper

*** Folk Firearms Collective Videos ***



Author Topic: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers  (Read 537 times)

Online rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 6957
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« on: July 04, 2013, 11:42:14 PM »
The February 1972 issue of the American Rifleman has an interesting article on what loads were used in Civil War .36 and .44-caliber paper cartridges for Colt revolvers.
   No mention is made of Remington or other cap and ball revolver charges but they were likely identical or nearly so.
   No granulation (FFG or FFFG) is noted in the article. Round balls were generally not used in paper cartridges, but were loaded with loose powder.
   There was a surprising disparity in bullet weights and powder charges in paper combustible cartridges for the Colts, according to the article.

    Conical bullets for the Colt M1860 Army .44-caliber revolver ranged from 207 grs. to 260 grs. Powder charges ranged from 17 to 36 grains of black powder.
   Conical bullets for the Colt .36 Navy ranged from 139 to 155 grs. Charges ranged from 12 to 21 grains.
   Nearly all of these variations are found in prepared, paper cartridges manufactured by private contractors. It appears that U.S. government arsenals made few paper revolver cartridges, preferring to contract this task.
   Union Army ordnance manuals of 1861 specify a load of 30 grs of powder with a .46-caliber, 216 gr. conical ball in Colt M1860 revolvers.
   The same manual specifies a .39-caliber conical bullet of 145 grs., over 17 grs. of powder.
   
   An official Confederate States publication specifies a 250 gr. conical bullet over 30 grs. of powder for the Colt M1860 revolver.
   The Confederate specification for the Colt Navy is the same as the Union (.39 caliber conical of 145 grs. over 17 grs. powder).
   In the 1860s an average load for the Colt M1860 .44 revolver was 25 grs. of powder with a 146 gr. (about 460" diameter) round ball or a conical bullet of about 230 grs.
   The average load for the Colt Navy was 15 grs. of powder with an 81 gr. (about .380" diameter) round ball or a conical bullet of about 146 grs.
   Old loadings will occasionally list a 218 gr. conical bullet with a 40 to 50 gr. powder charge. This is intended for the Colt Model 1847 Walker or the later Dragoons, which have a larger capacity than the Colt M1860 .44 revolver.
   
   Of great interest in this article is the dissection of original paper cartridges and the weighing of their powder charge and conical ball weight. The results follow:

COLT ARMY .44
Hazard Powder Co. - 211 gr. conical / 36 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 260 gr. conical / 19 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 242 gr. conical / 35 grs. powder
Unknown - 257 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder
Hotchkiss - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder

COLT NAVY .36
Hazard Powder Co. - 141 gr. conical / 21 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 139 gr. conical / 14 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 150 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 155 gr. conical / 12 grs. powder
Unknown - 149 gr. conical / 13 grs. powder

   The 2003 Dixie Gun Works catalogue recommends loads very closely resembling the above, but with a ball, not a conical bullet.
   All .36 caliber revolvers: .376 inch ball over 22 grs. FFFG black power.
   .44 Remington and Colt original gun: .453 inch ball over 28 grs. FFFG black powder
   .44 Remington and Colt reproductions: .451 inch ball over 28 grs. FFFG black powder.

   In A History of the Colt Revolver From 1836 to 1940 by Charles T. Haven and Frank E. Belden, the authors note recommendations listed by Colt in the 1850s and 1860s.
   Haven and Belden note, "FFG black powder is best for the large and medium-size revolvers, and FFFG for the small pocket models, but any grade that is available will work reasonably well."

   Colt recommended the following, more than 125 years ago:
1 dram = 27.3 grains (grs.)

   .44 Dragoon: 1-1/2 drams of black powder (41 grs.) and a round bullet of 48 to the pound (about 146 grs, which calculates at about .46 caliber) or a conical bullet of 32 to the pound (about 219 grains).
   .44 M1860 Army - Powder charge about 1/3 less than the Dragoon, or 27 grains. A conical bullet of 212 grains (33 to the pound) or the same round ball used in the Dragoon above (about .46-caliber or 146 grs. weight).
  .36 M1851 Navy - Powder charge of 3/4 of a dram (20 grs.) and conical bullet 140 grs. (50 to the pound ). Or a round ball of 81 grs. (86 to the pound, which would be about .379 or .380 diameter).
   .36 M1862 Pocket and Police - Conical bullet over 15 grs. of powder. No weight is given the conical bullet for this model but it's known that it had its own bullet mould, casting a shorter bullet than the Navy .36 revolver.

   .31 Old and New Model Pocket Pistols - Conical bullet of 76 grains (92 to the pound) over half a dram (13.5 grains) of powder, or a round ball of 50 grs. (140 to the pound and about .320 inch diameter).

   .265 M1855 Sidehammer: Ball of 35 grains (200 to the pound, about .285 diameter) or a 55 gr. (128 to the pound) conical bullet. No charge is listed, but I would guess that 10 grains of powder would be correct.

  Elmer Keith: taught by Civil War veterans
   The late gun writer Elmer Keith (1898 - 1984) wrote a book, "Sixguns" in the mid 1950s. In it, he included a chapter on cap and ball revolvers.
   Keith learned how to load and shoot these revolvers from Civil War veterans when he grew up in Helena, Montana. In 1912, at the age of 14, he began carrying a Colt 1851 Navy in .36 caliber.
   Keith recommended FFFG black powder for the .28 and .31 caliber revolvers, and FFG black powder for theh .36 and .44 guns.
He didn't list loads by weight, but he instructed to pour in the powder until it almost filled the chamber, leaving room for a greased felt wad.
   Keith punched felt wads from an old hat, and soaked them in a lubricant made of melted beeswax and tallow.

   Keith noted, "A percussion sixgun thus loaded will shoot clean all day if you blow your breath through the bore a few times after each six rounds are fired. It will also shoot very accurately if it is a good gun."
   "I had one .36 Navy Colt that had a pitted barrel, but with the above load it would cut clover leaves for its six shots, at 20 yards, all day with seated back and head rest and two hands used between the knees to further holding," Keith wrote.

   "For its size and weight nothing is so deadly as the round ball of pure lead when driven at fairly good velocity," Keith wrote. "Maximum loads give these slugs fairly high velocity from a 7-1/2 inch barrel gun."

   Keith knew two Civil War cavalrymen who had seen an enormous amount of battle in the Civil War. Major R. E. Stratton fought in the Confederacy's 1st Texas Regiment. Samuel H. Fletcher fought in the Union's 2nd Illinois Cavalry.
   "Both Maj. Stratton and Sam Fletcher told me the .36 Navy with full loads was a far better man killer than any .38 Special they had ever seen used in gun fights," Keith wrote.
   "Maj. Stratton said that for a man stopper he preferred the round ball with chamber full of FFG to the pointed conical bullet," Keith wrote. "Sam Fletcher also told me he preferred a pure lead round ball in his Navy Colts with chamber full of black powder, to the issued conical ball load.
   "Fletcher claimed the round ball dropped enemy cavalrymen much better and took all the fight out of them, whereas the pointed bullet at times would only wound and leave them fighting.
   "Fletcher stated, however, that when foraging and shooting cattle for meat, the pointed bullet was the best for body shots that had to be taken where penetration was needed. But that on all frontal shots on beef, the old round ball was plenty good and would reach the brain --- even on bulls.
   "Major Stratton claimed that while the big Dragoon was slower for quick-draw work, once you had it in your hand it was the best cavalry pistol of all," Keith wrote. "It would drop a horse as easily as a man with its .45-caliber round or conical ball and 50 grains of FFG black powder."
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7338
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 12:47:44 AM »
Great reading!    



Thank you, Rondo

Uncle Russ.....
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Roaddog

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1580
  • TMA Member: TMA Paid Member # 247 Expires 3/15 / 2019
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 06:14:01 AM »
That was a good read for sure.I'll look at my 36 Colt in a difrent lite.
 Thank for a grate post Rollingb. :rt th
Minnesota TMA State Representative

Member #247

Offline Sir Michael

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2754
  • TMA: TMA Store
  • TMA Member: Charter Member #132
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 12:37:22 PM »
You have got to love original data when it comes to bullets and powder.
Sir Michael
Charter Member #132

Online rollingb

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 6957
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 02:04:22 PM »
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
You have got to love original data when it comes to bullets and powder.
You got that right Mike!!  :rt th
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Offline Riley/MN

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5100
  • TMA Member: Charter Member #20
  • Location: Montana
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 05:03:27 PM »
Great stuff Rondo!
~Riley
><>


TMA Charter Member #20


Support Traditional Muzzleloading - Join the TMA!

Offline R.M.

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 810
  • TMA Member: 134
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2013, 05:09:37 PM »
Makes you wonder how they got 250/260 gr conicals in the loading gate. You can't do that with any of the repro's I've seen.
R.M.
 :Canada
TMA Charter Member #134   Exp. 11/14
Join the TMA. For the money, it's the best BOOM for your 15 bucks.

The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of tyrants and patriots alike..........Thomas Jefferson

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7338
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2013, 06:00:20 PM »
Quote
"For its size and weight nothing is so deadly as the round ball of pure lead when driven at fairly good velocity,"
I was just thinking and this is just a wee bit off topic, but relevant in a way....  

I have heard / read the above quote many times.
Although Elmer Keith wrote this, I didn't see him taking credit for it.

Throughout my younger years, much like many others my age now, I was a "dyed-in-the-wool" fan of Elmer Keith.
Along with Jack O'Connor, Maj.George Nonte, Col.Towsend Whelen, Warren Page, Jeff Cooper, and many many other notable writers of the day, but one thing stood out about old Elmer....he reported his experiments with truth.
Not necessarily what some fans might want him to say, and not necessarily what his publishers would have liked to have seen, but he wrote about what he saw and felt the honest performance really was.

It's unfortunate we no longer have such Writers on the payrolls of today's Publishers.

Thanks again for this fine post and great reading

 :lt th

Uncle Russ....
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Captchee

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6215
Re: Original factory loads for cap and ball revolvers
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 09:27:55 AM »
Quote from: "R.M."
Makes you wonder how they got 250/260 gr conicals in the loading gate. You can't do that with any of the repro's I've seen.

RM , they are probably talking about a heeled bullet  of that wieght .