Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: BEAVERMAN on July 02, 2023, 11:43:28 AM
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Hey fellas, I'm going to be ordering a Kibler Woodsrunner kit and I'm on the fence about ordering a Maple or a Cherry stock, I've worked Maple many times in the past both plain and high figure, never have done a Cherry stock, any thoughts, pros and cons?
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Jim, I've only worked with walnut and maple, but I've seen some nice cherry stocked rifles in my time... :shake
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All of my flintlocks are figured maple. I bought a highly figured cherry stock, and had it sent to Jim Kibler for my Woodsrunner as I wanted something different. I assembled it and finished all of the metal. It is now at a guy's shop who is doing the carving for me as I am not a wood carver. No patience for it and sharpening chisels is not something I have been able to master. Won't have it back until the end of the year as he has several builds in front of me. So, no pictures right now. I am a cherry wood fan and have a couple of countertops in my house made out of cherry. Good luck in whatever you decide.
:bigsmile: :hairy
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Well if I wuz me I'd order a maple if I were staining it a lighter color, cherry if dark. They're both beautiful woods.
But that's me.
Kevin
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I just ordered another Woodsrunner kit (yep, another .54) and decided to try cherry for the first time. I'm gonna ring up Jim and ask about his cherry wood - is it red heartwood or more white sap wood? Also, cherry can be kinda iffy with regards to hardness, need to ask about that, too. My dad was a fine cabinet maker by trade, but also a top notch engine mechanic, and when stationed down at Randolph Field, TX (Army Air Corps, 1942-45) during WWII, he carved a horse's head out of a large 14" block of cherry that he finished straight with oil, no stain, and the wood darkened lots over the decades to where it's a deep black cherry color now (my granddaughter rides horses, she's got the horse head). Anyhoo, lots depends on the genus of cherry wood and where the stock blank was cut out of the log, but I expect to just Tru-Oil it and let it do it's own darkening over the years.
Jim - yer gonna LOVE the Woodsrunner kit !!! :*:
Side story on the horse's head that might be of some general non-trad ML interest .... Dad won first place in a crafting contest with that "Strawberry Roam" (yes, "roam" and not "roan", I've yet to uncover exactly why) and shipped it off to his brother-in-law, Uncle Felix, as a welcoming home present of sorts. Uncle Felix was a jockey in his youth, before Pearl Harbor, when he became a ball turret gunner on a B17 - but that event is a whole 'nother tale. Where did Uncle Felix come home from in 1945? Stalag 17. He was a "guest" there for about 2-1/2 years ... and that's a whole 'nother story, too.
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I just ordered another Woodsrunner kit (yep, another .54) and decided to try cherry for the first time. I'm gonna ring up Jim and ask about his cherry wood - is it red heartwood or more white sap wood? Also, cherry can be kinda iffy with regards to hardness, need to ask about that, too. My dad was a fine cabinet maker by trade, but also a top notch engine mechanic, and when stationed down at Randolph Field, TX (Army Air Corps, 1942-45) during WWII, he carved a horse's head out of a large 14" block of cherry that he finished straight with oil, no stain, and the wood darkened lots over the decades to where it's a deep black cherry color now (my granddaughter rides horses, she's got the horse head). Anyhoo, lots depends on the genus of cherry wood and where the stock blank was cut out of the log, but I expect to just Tru-Oil it and let it do it's own darkening over the years.
Jim - yer gonna LOVE the Woodsrunner kit !!! :*:
Side story on the horse's head that might be of some general non-trad ML interest .... Dad won first place in a crafting contest with that "Strawberry Roam" (yes, "roam" and not "roan", I've yet to uncover exactly why) and shipped it off to his brother-in-law, Uncle Felix, as a welcoming home present of sorts. Uncle Felix was a jockey in his youth, before Pearl Harbor, when he became a ball turret gunner on a B17 - but that event is a whole 'nother tale. Where did Uncle Felix come home from in 1945? Stalag 17. He was a "guest" there for about 2-1/2 years ... and that's a whole 'nother story, too.
Rob, I just sold a Northwest Star early english trade gun kit that I bought from an estate for a song 12 years ago and made a tidy profit on it, enough to almost pay for the plain jane woodsrunner kit, please let me know what you find out about the cherry when you talk to Kibler, I'm going with a 45, thanks, Beav
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Hey Rob, have you had a chance to talk with Jim yet?
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Hey Rob, have you had a chance to talk with Jim yet?
He hasn't been around, maybe due to the holiday. I'll ring him up again tomorrow for sure, I'm very interested! Also wondering if he can also offer one of the .54 bbls as a .58 smooth rifle.
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Now that would be interesting and should be no problem to bore out
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Okay, the scoop on Kibler cherry wood stocks is that only the red heartwood is used, the densest part without pith inclusions.
The barrels are rifled by Green Mountain and then Jim does the profiling and flat work. So, no smooth boring available, gotta get Bobby Hoyt to do that.
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Thanks Rob!
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Thanks Rob!
Yer most welcome. I've got one on order.
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I need a couple more weeks, thinking about one of the carved stocks
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well beav, I dont know what you've decided on but I pulled the trigger, so to speak , on a cherry .54 this evening. plain, no carving
gonna grab a few extra shifts at work, so the wifey gave me the A OK . love that gal !
now we wait, I hate waiting.
seems a lot of people are talking about these kits. it was all the rage at rondy last weekend.
kevin
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Maple unless you like cherry. I don't care for it for stocks.
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My cherry stock is blondish after 4 coats of tru oil. No hint of " cherry"
I will have her completed by this weekend and I'll post some pics.
Kevin
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My cherry stock is blondish after 4 coats of tru oil. No hint of " cherry"
I will have her completed by this weekend and I'll post some pics.
Kevin
Cherrywood is s'posed to "cherry" itself over time, and perhaps exposure to sunlight. I'm going to only Tru-Oil mine, no stain.
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My cherry Woody arrived this morning ....
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Look at the waaay bent ramrod! I always make my own, so no big deal ...
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Congrats.
My RR was outta wack too ! easy fix.
Looking forward to your build.
Kevin
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:hairy here I sit broken hearted........., love the color, hope mine is that dark to start with.
Straightening that RR is a simple fix
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:hairy here I sit broken hearted........., love the color, hope mine is that dark to start with.
Straightening that RR is a simple fix
Yep, same as straightening a cedar or hickory arrow shaft. I make most of my own ramrods outta split pignut hickory.
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Dear James,
Great news! We have your kit gun ready to ship and you are all paid up. Would you like me to go ahead and ship it?
DUH! :applaud :applaud :applaud
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Dear James,
Great news! We have your kit gun ready to ship and you are all paid up. Would you like me to go ahead and ship it?
DUH! :applaud :applaud :applaud
:yessir:
WOO HOO!!! :bl th up :bl th up :*:
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Yippee, let the fun begin. Be careful with the forend.
Fra gee le'
Kevin
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My cherry Woody arrived this morning ....
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Look at the waaay bent ramrod! I always make my own, so no big deal ...
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Rob, that bent ram rod sure wouldn't fall out if you tilted the muzzle down! That is IF you could get it pushed all the way down to begin with!!!
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Yippee, let the fun begin. Be careful with the forend.
Fra gee le'
Kevin
Yes indeed, Jim's stocks are all of exacting and proper dimensions for their era, and that means THIN forestocks.
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My cherry Woody arrived this morning ....
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Look at the waaay bent ramrod! I always make my own, so no big deal ...
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Rob, that bent ram rod sure wouldn't fall out if you tilted the muzzle down! That is IF you could get it pushed all the way down to begin with!!!
You ain't kiddin'!! :luff: :Doh! :lol sign
It's a relatively easy fix, specially if yer into building woody arrows.
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Maple 100% and get the upgrade. Never seen good cherry that was as nice as good maple. :hairy
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Maple 100% and get the upgrade. Never seen good cherry that was as nice as good maple. :hairy
Got the cherry, plain Jane, already have a couple nice curly maple guns, a figured English walnut Haines style known as the prom queen, needed a Cherry to round out the collection, have been sitting on it since mid August, going to start it 1st week of December, take my time, enjoy the process and maybe , just maybe a little basic carving on it, looking for a dark Black Cherry finish, going to have to twist Robs arm a bit to let go of the process he used on that last Maryland rifle he built!
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Maple 100% and get the upgrade. Never seen good cherry that was as nice as good maple. :hairy
To be fair, the strongest and best of all wood species will be of the straightest most boring grain. Flames, tiger stripes and quilts are going to be weaker due to their cross grain "features". Now the strong grained wood is probably best for a war weapon, and a bling laden tiger stripe wood is best for those civilians who relish the art of the long gun. To each their own and for me I rate a trad ML thisaway in a prioritized order ...
1. function - fast ignition, accurate with a "loose ball" load, not fussy with 'tween shot cleaning, and just "feels" good
2. form - after all the bling wood guns I've stuck together I must admit a preference for a plain wood gun
Jim - which gun that I finished were your referring to?
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Rob, that last Maryland one you finished with the deep dark cherry red under tones,
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Rob, that last Maryland one you finished with the deep dark cherry red under tones,
Maryland? The Woodsrunner is Virginia, the SMR is North Carolina ...?
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No, it was a gun you last finished on the ML forum, went back and looked at it and that one is not the gun I'm thinking about, must be the cherry WR that TDM last finished
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For my last three builds - all Kibler rifles and all very fancy tiger stripe maple - I use heat gunned iron nitrate (aqua fortis) as the "stain" and Tru-Oil for the clear coats.
I'm undecided what to do with this cherry stocked Woodsrunner. I wish I'd asked Jim to send along some scraps for testing.
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I'm undecided what to do with this cherry stocked Woodsrunner. I wish I'd asked Jim to send along some scraps for testing.
You might give him a call and see if he won't send you some scraps if you refund the postage. Especially so since you have been a good customer!
~Kees~
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I've done some research, there's a lotta good cherry wood stock finishing posts on ALR. Finishes discussed have ranged from aniline dye, lye, iron nitrate, and nothing but clear coat only.
I'm gonna just finish with straight Tru-Oil, no staining of any kind, let it darken on its own by leaving it in sunlight.
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I've got some scrap cherry coming from Bree at Kibler's and I'll do some stain testing using lye, as Jim Kibler has suggested.
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I've got some scrap cherry coming from Bree at Kibler's and I'll do some stain testing using lye, as Jim Kibler has suggested.
I picked up a jar of lye powder from amazon, guess I'll wait for you to play first with the scrap and check results! I purchasing a soft case and some jax black from them next week, will see If I can get Bree to send some my way also.