Post by: ross on February 16, 2017, 10:15:43 PM
Post by: prairie dog on February 16, 2017, 10:39:47 PM
Breaking in is simply polishing or lapping with mild abrasives to remove any sharp edges that can cut the patching.
The idea of seasoning comes from seasoning cast iron cookware. Fill the pores with grease to prevent rust and food from sticking.
When rifle barrels were made from iron there might have been an advantage to do so.
The modern steel used today isn't the same. I don't believe any type of grease will penetrate into pores of steel barrels. I don't believe modern steel has pores like cast iron.
Some lubes will leave a film of stuff on the surface of the steel barrel but I don't think it can soak into pores in steel.
One particular patch lube which is "known" to season barrels does leave a coating on the steel. My Lyman GPR would not group with that stuff in it. I had to get every last trace of it cleaned out of the barrel before it would shoot acceptable groups.
Some folks swear by it, but it doesn't work for me.
I don't trust it to stop rust either.
Post by: ross on February 16, 2017, 11:06:16 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on March 06, 2017, 01:01:51 PM
Like PD said, the idea of seasoning a barrel came from cast iron which is porous. Modern steels don't need it.
John
Post by: Bigsmoke on March 06, 2017, 01:45:26 PM
I then took one of my rifles out for a day's worth of shooting, using their branded pre-lubed patches and my regular charge of 85 grains of Ffg and a Hornady .530 RB. At about the 10th or 11th shot, I was starting to be really glad I brought my brass range rod instead of the hickory under gun rod. I probably got another two shots out of it before progress ground down to a halt. the last load put in the barrel was so difficult to push down I decided the experiment was over. Big fail.
I later happened to visit the patch/lube manufacturer's place of business and asked the plant manager just what the load of the test rifle was, but he would not answer. I further asked if it might be something like 25 grains of Ffffg. All he would do was smile, but no reply.
My take on the whole thing? Simply a marketing ploy, nothing more, nothing less.
On the other hand, I noticed that my big bore rifles had a tendency to shred patches with heavy powder charges. I experimented with lubed cushion wads and found they were the cure for that problem. I also found that by using a heavy load, like 200 grains of Ffg, then the wad, then the PRB, I could fire countless shots without cleaning. I went to a RDV once and shot the trailwalk of about 25 shots, never wiped the bore and the last shot loaded as easily as the first. This was with the patch lubed with the super duty, better than anything else on the planet, lubed patches. But the cushion wad went in first, thereby cleaning the bore as it loaded. Accuracy wise, I saw no difference plus or minus.
Post by: Ohio Joe on March 06, 2017, 02:11:15 PM
Post by: Loyalist Dave on April 10, 2017, 08:57:02 AM
But what about the steel used today for most of our barrels? It's not porous as one would find with iron, though it might have some roughness when machined. So would "seasoning" work? It might..., but not as the proponents think. If the barrel bore is already polished..., then no, there would be no advantage.
If the barrel was a plain barrel, without a factory polish, could a shooter build up a layer of carbon in the bore? Could that hard layer of carbon also act to fill in any microscopic imperfections from machining? The same principal as one sees on a steel wok, a layer of carbon deposited from the oil used in the wok gives the steel a very non-stick surface. Such a layer might be possible in a barrel, BUT...., a wok is heated to a high, even temperature while a barrel is hottest at its breech. A wok is heated hot enough for a long period of time for the oil to carbonize compared to the split second that heat is applied to a barrel, and the carbon layer only appears where the heat is applied, so the barrel would only get such a layer at and close to, the breech, not its whole length. When we clean our barrels, a lot of us use a light of some sort to perform an inspection, and do we see a blackened or browned surface within the barrel down at the breech, OR is the bore silver and does it shine, and what about the face of the breech plug? Shine = no "seasoning" taking place (imho).
I think you'd have a better chance fire-lapping a barrel, or hand lapping, or better yet buying one from a manufacturer who factory polished the bore.
LD
Post by: Hanshi on April 10, 2017, 06:36:50 PM
Post by: Maven on April 10, 2017, 06:50:08 PM
Post by: AxelP on April 14, 2017, 12:04:24 PM
Post by: Winter Hawk on April 14, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
Barrel seasoning, just what is it? Does it work? How do you do it?The idea is that as you shoot with natural lubes (not petroleum based) the heat from the powder charge will melt the lube into the pores of the bore, thus seasoning it like a cast iron frying pan. How-sum-ever, 1) the cast iron frying pan has the seasoning on the inside, not where the fire hits it (although I've seen them with enough crud built up on them to be a health hazard, but that's not the seasoning); 2) cleaning the gun will remove the "seasoning" if done correctly; & 3) the steel used in modern barrels does not have the large pores which cast iron does (as mentioned earlier) so there is little for the lube to melt into.
Lapping the bore to remove any rough spots from machining will be a whole lot more worth while, in my not-so-humble opinion.
~WH~
Post by: AxelP on April 14, 2017, 07:56:37 PM
The bore will "smooth" out over time-- and as it does, it becomes easier to clean, and it will often shoot better.
In my experience at least, my newer guns tended to take more time to clean. As they got shot in, they became easier to clean and care for. No magic Johnny whiz wonder paste is necessary.
You can speed up the process by lapping the bore -- nothing wrong with that! Some barrels are pretty smooth already--right outta the box. (I know my Rice made barrels were). Sometimes barrels are too smooth and need to be etched a little and roughed up to shoot good. Thats what I hear anyway, but thats a different tale for a different time. The more you shoot your gun, the better YOU will shoot. Seems to me, that the variable for good shooting is almost always with the shooter?
I guess bottomline, it just depends on each gun and shooter. Every one of my guns shoots a one ragged hole group on the first shot. Its the rest of the shots after that first one that start to spread out a bit. :lol sign
Good luck and have fun making smoke!
Post by: PetahW on May 07, 2017, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: ross
Barrel seasoning, just what is it ? Does it work ? How do you do it ?
Well................ it looks like there's a butt for every seat, myself included. :pray:
FYI:
In the mid-1980's, when Ox-Yoke & T/C came out with BoreButter 1000+, I followed their barrel prep directions, and refrained from any further use of petroleum products in my (at the time one) muzzleloader - a .45 T/C Cherokee.
(I've since used it in every one of the 10 different frontstuffers I've owned, both cap & flint locks)
I used Pyrodex for awhile (about 10 years), then switched to FFFg/Holy Black. :applaud
Since then, up to when I sold that Cherokee here last Fall, the gun was never "cleaned", nor (as the buyer here can attest) has it ever exhibited ANY rusting. :bl th up
The recommended prep I performed was to thoroughly degrease the barrel (in/out) with hot soapy water, and let the water evaporate before applying the BB to the barrel & placing it into a low-temperature (200-degree) oven for about 20mins.
Every time after that prep, that I shot that rifle, at the end of a days shooting I would wipe the bore several times with a patch wetted with Moose Milk (T/C #10 cleaner), then use multiple clean patches to dry the bore until the patches came out relatively clean.
After the MooseMilk wipe, I would then run a very loose patch loaded with BB down the bore & back once, before storing the gun until my next shooting session - sometimes only a day or two, sometimes only after several months.
I would also remove/clean/replace the nipple, wipe the hammer face with MM, and wipe down the barrel exterior with a light coat of BB.
It was easily loaded, as normal, whenever the next shooting session or hunting foray next occurred.
In these 30-odd years, that gun never experienced a mis or hang fire, and was accurate enough to take enough deer to keep my freezer filled every year (did I mention we eat a LOT of venison ? ).
I still keep to that same regimen with the remainder of my muzzleloaders, today. :toast
.
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2017, 12:54:42 AM
Your story is no different than many others I have read over the years, with a slight variation here or there.
Now I have to admit I also tried it...tried it several times when BB was first becoming popular, back in the 80's or there abouts.
Seems during the late 70's there were more concoctions for lube than a man could write down in a single day, even dreamed up a few myself, but nothing ever proved magic to me.
The one Lube that is / was outstanding in every respect, was the LeHigh Valley lube when it was made in Mexico, New York...yep, Mexico, New York. I could shoot more shots using that lube than anything I had ever tried for the past 10-15 years, but then it disappeared from the market for several years.....I guess it's back now because a friend sent me a "new" bottle, but I still haven't got into the nitty-gritty of giving it a real work out.
When I received the 'new' bottle, I still had a little bit left in one of my very old bottles, since I had bought a full case of about 20 bottles waaaay back when....but when I sat the side by side, I could see a difference in color.
Now my old LeHigh Valley lube was darker, not sure if that was from age, or if the formula had been changed, but the old was definitely darker.
Much like your story with BB, I have a little different story to tell about LeHigh Valley lube, that few wanted to believe. In fact, I have heard many say that LeHigh Valley is the worst lube they've ever used....period.
Like PeterW says, "There's a seat for butt, myself included".
Being a long time graduate of Colorado School of Trades, and knowing just wee bit about barrel steels myself, I have always held to the belief that you simply can't "season a modern Barrel", the molecular structure of modern steel is not conducive to that seasoning, as we know it, there's no stresses, pits,.... There is just no place for the seasoning to go. IMHO.
The very same thing can be said about LeHigh Valley lube, but I have fired in excess of 39 shots, using the old LeHig Valley, without even wipping.
Would the same thing have happened had I ever been successful in seasoning the barrel with BB?
I have no clue, because every attempt I made to do that was a failure....I would invariably end up getting 2 / 3/ sometimes 4 shots and I would have to wipe the barrel.
it's kinda hard to tell in the picture but the old LeHIgh is on the left, the new on the right.
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2017, 01:17:15 AM
If you see the writing you will see that group was shot with a GPR, using Lehigh Valley Lube, and was never wiped between shots.
I think that if you click on the photo it gets larger....not sure, but I think so, if it does you can see the date, it is 19 or so years ago, and the load I was using...there is like 30 holes in that target, two outside the one inch circle.
Shooting small groups with the GPR Flinter, using LeHigh Valley Lube, was at one time, my favorite pastime.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Ohio Joe on May 08, 2017, 01:55:50 PM
I will say (and this was never meant to be an experiment), but I do feel I get better accuracy using the Bore Butter rather then my spit (perhaps I have bad spit), so I'll be going back to the Bore Butter. And,,, if it ever did season anything - I believe it seasoned my bullet blocks I use to keep my patched balls handy for loading... :shake I still plan on trying some of Fletcher's Old Thunder lube, I hear that is good stuff! :bl th up
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2017, 02:32:37 PM
Anyway, it's a full bottle, never opened, never used, while I have read raves upon raves about this lube going back for years and years.
I was all set to order some Ol'Thunder Lube from Fletcher last year when I came across a box of "stuff" that hadn't even been opened since my move from the other side of the mountain ELEVEN years ago... :Doh!
That box had a bunch of lubes in it, some I had made up over many years past, some GREEN Pine smelling Bore Butter, which was hard as a rock, several tubes, at least 6 or 8, of regular BB, and a full bottle of BirdDog6 lube....probably 16 ounces.
Then, of all things, Rob DiStefano discovers that LeHigh Valley Lube has been recently re-introduced, and he sent me a very generous bottle of the new stuff.!!!!
Then, I get a new 8oz can of Mink Oil from TOTW.....What was I thinking?
The worst winter in over 60 years, and I'm thinking Mink Oil might be the ticket if I was ever able to get out over another winter like that.
Of all the things I might need to continue with this Hobby, I assure you Lube is not one of those things.
Now, if someone would just come up with a lube, with all the missed shots already taken out, I would be up to giving that a try, in a heart beat.
I'm pushing 80 years of age, been shooting Muzzleloaders for a good 65 years plus, and I have learned over these many years, that the best lube, best load, best shot, is all in the Indian, not the Arrow......
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Ohio Joe on May 08, 2017, 08:54:41 PM
All this lube talk got me to thinking about my X-Stick rifle lube I use to modify using the TC Bore Butter and adding more Bees Wax to it. I know that deep in the bowls of my basement I have a box somewhere with this stuff in, and the directions I used to mix the two. When it was all said and done it made a great patch lube for my X-Stick Rifles, but that was back in the days of swabbing between every shot and being an extremely meticulous loader.
I now kind'a fudge with swabbing about every 3 to 5 shots (depending), and not being meticulous about leveling off my powder charge. Yes, I became quite lazy about shooting targets to the point of I suspect that is why I started Spit Patching, I just didn't want to mess with the lubes anymore. I guess now I do. :shake
It's all still good ol' black powder fun! :bl th up