Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: shootrj2003 on March 09, 2021, 11:36:48 PM
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[ Invalid Attachment ] I got a fowler I am renovation’ however,I’ve had a curly maple stock to put on my GPR ..50 .the biggest part of either is making the stock ,which I never did ,fo muzzleloader anyway. Seeing as they are a bit of a challenge I decided to have a go at the Lyman ,tonight,using a combo of router table,table saw,chisels and others,a mixture of period and modern tools ,sorry ,it is what it is!i routed the center channel first 7/16” bottom flat ,I did this on my router table of my own making which ha worked well for many projects ,however after the channel,despite my best measurements it was off center by almost 1/16th of an inch at the muzzle and off the other way at the breech end so I decided to go with chisels for the rest I was able to make it work by widening the cut a bit however not a lot of room for error now and it might show in the bedding but I think it will bed and shoot fine,the 45’s will be short but sufficient.after routing I cut the top of the stock down to almost 1/2 a barrel depth using my table saw and band saw ,and gues what it was too shallow I had to deepen it with chisels, that is where I am now,I know guys here say that takes them acouple hours to inlet a barrel but I’ll be a week on this lol enjoying it though and keep in mind I have duties and chores to workaround,have mercy! [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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It is a pretty stick of wood! I can't trim a pencil without having it lopsided, I am always in awe of woodworkers! Good luck on this project!
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Good. :toast
You're not the only one that has to work through issues that arise when working a gunstock (BT, DT - NTS)
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You'll get there, John... Sounds like a good project. :hairy
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Keep it going. Interested see your progress.
Kevin
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Thats a really nice pc of maple! Measure twice( hold tongue out of corner of mouth, cut once!)
Thanks for sharing yer journey :*:
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[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] Every time I touch this thing I git scairt!( tiny little mistakes add up as you go) no one told me this before,I suspected but now I have chiseled it ,Curly Maple is the most beautiful wood in a gunstockchoice,but it is the most horrible wood to work I will not even show the rough inletting I have done but it is horrible,it will get better with rasps and sandpaper,lots of sandpaper,but for the most part it is still tighter than the barrel so it’s not screwed up or in Marine talk-FUBAR- is it always this bad or is it just my learning curve,the general shape is there and the kind of proper angles and dimensions but everything is wavy like the ocean!when you make a cut it will dive up and down if your not careful to take tiny cuts,I never used chisels beyond door hinges and simple stuff like that in soft woods.there may be some accra glas involved!
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Yea little oops add up for sure , there is a learning curve especially if your going at it without a Mentor there to help guide you, one of the biggest tips I can give you is that your chisels need to be SCARY SHARP! and be aware of the angle of the chisels cutting edge, especially with gouges! take your time and it will all come out in the end.
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This how old this idea is ,I found a post from 2013 sayin I was gonna start that piece of curly maple for my Lyman! I didn’t think I had it that long! I jest likes to mosey along I guess!
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Don't get too hung up on trying to make full contact on the bottom three sides. A spot here and there every two or three inches is all you need. It doesn't show and that is enough support.
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This how old this idea is ,I found a post from 2013 sayin I was gonna start that piece of curly maple for my Lyman! I didn’t think I had it that long! I jest likes to mosey along I guess!
Well if you look at my post on my GPR remodel you'll see when it was first posted, still sitting in the corner the way the last pic shows it, hope I finish it before I die! :Doh!
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I am feeling better about it now its starting to look lke something , it got pits but is basicly [ Invalid Attachment ]
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inletted the breech is next
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:hairy Looks like your coming right along!
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My last post from my phone is showing first it’s out of order!( That’s what that judge said to me that time) and I posted four pictures not two!? Alright the universal shift occurred now it’s aalllllrrriightttnow!
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Beaverman,
I see that you are a Semper Fi also ,I just reconnected with one of my best friends from the Corps. We talked for hours. But stuff is still upside down and out of focus—- my pictures or is it me?
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Beaverman,
I see that you are a Semper Fi also ,I just reconnected with one of my best friends from the Corps. We talked for hours. But stuff is still upside down and out of focus—- my pictures or is it me?
OORRAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!, no it's the system that's weird, have you looked at RobD's tutorial for posting pics, and yes, size does matter, every time I post more than 1 pic I need to reteach myself how to do it!
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[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] theses pics are of the barrel finally set in as it will the wedge tenons are in laid ,the vent is where it should be and I am inletting the tange which seems to be tight to the barrel and stock ,one problem I messed up I inletted for the underrib but did not drill the ramrod hole or inlet it first this is a problem because I don’t have flat surface at the front of the stockto start the hole now.but,my wife bought me a set of dogleg chisels,they help big time
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That's looking GOOD! :hairy You are fairly flying along in my opinion. If it were me doing that I would probably be at the stage of clamping the stock in the vice about now.... :laffing Thank you for keeping us in the loop. :toast
~Kees~
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You don’t understand,I been study in’ it since 2013-I don’t remember how long before that my son in law gave me the wood! Seriously,I have been lucky only minor mess ups ,I took tonight off from it as I just got my second COVID shot other than aching joints I’m fine,but I ache anyways! I needed some tools extra than what I had and my wife bought me a set of good dog leg chisels from Narex,they cut nice the tang is next my plan is to use Forster bits then chisel what’s left,also I forgot to drill my ram rod hole before inletting for the underrib this gonna make it hard to drill.however,thanks for the complement ,coming from you ,and Beaverman,makes me feel good.
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You don’t understand,I been study in’ it since 2013-I don’t remember how long before that my son in law gave me the wood! Seriously,I have been lucky only minor mess ups ,I took tonight off from it as I just got my second COVID shot other than aching joints I’m fine,but I ache anyways! I needed some tools extra than what I had and my wife bought me a set of good dog leg chisels from Narex,they cut nice the tang is next my plan is to use Forster bits then chisel what’s left,also I forgot to drill my ram rod hole before inletting for the underrib this gonna make it hard to drill.however,thanks for the complement ,coming from you ,and Beaverman,makes me feel good.
:hairy I just found a new channel on you tube called Golden Mean Flintlocks, watched the young mans first 3 vids on a build he doing by hand, has some good tips and pointers, well worth a watch!
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You don’t understand,I been study in’ it since 2013-I don’t remember how long before that my son in law gave me the wood! Seriously,I have been lucky only minor mess ups ,I took tonight off from it as I just got my second COVID shot other than aching joints I’m fine,but I ache anyways! I needed some tools extra than what I had and my wife bought me a set of good dog leg chisels from Narex,they cut nice the tang is next
my plan is to use Forster bits then chisel what’s left,also I forgot to drill my ram rod hole before inletting for the underrib this gonna make it hard to drill.however,thanks for the complement ,coming from you ,and Beaverman,makes me feel good.
Your not alone, I sat on a precarve that was duplicated for 7-8 yrs because I was intimidated by the figure. Finally went after it and finished it last winter. Hats off to you and your project, yer doin great 👍🏻
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Thanks for the complements and encouragement,I will look into that “ Golden Mean Flintlock” video it sounds helpful.just to let everyone know I received my second shot yesterday”( Moderna) at the VA,and as expected it made me feel real achy,and maybe feverish ,any aches you might have get a little worse,however,at 0800 this morning I,it seems to be abating and think I’ll be ready to eat corn beef and cabbage!
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I watched that 1st video,I will have to watch it again,excellent info,I will now drill my ramrod hole ,I actually inletted too deep for my under rib and had to replace about 1/8” of wood seeing how there is not much more than that between the barrel and ramrod hole ,luckily there is still an inch and a half or so to cut off the the front of the stock so after that the repair is only a short bit left.I guess I have not thought much about the ramrod hole till now,I see it might be my next big trial! One thing I learned about deep holes is they can wander,I did a couple of buttstocks of conventional guns for the butt bolt and your best to drill that first then shape the stock,that won’t work here ,I noticed my modern guns have the tunnel partly routed out and looked into older guns back into the 1800’s some also used this method So that looks like a way to go,especially considering the curly maple I’m working with.For some strange reason I feel compelled to consider that I will,or may build a long rifle some day and I see that it might get more involved and tricky with a longer stock ,but it’s actually pretty simple it’s really only where the hole starts and where the last three inch’s end up that matters,everything in between just has to stay within the finished surface of the stock right?
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Another update for those interested [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] the last one is my homemade barrl inlet scraper, [ Invalid Attachment ] it did not seem worth the trouble at first then I changed the angle of the edge and much better,the last is my homemade router table which became invaluable,and as you can see I did rout some of the tunnel from above [ Invalid Attachment ] and I am glad I did because I had to and was more easily able to straighten out my drills wandering ways it ended up precisely where I was Wanting it it went sideways just a bit in he first 6”.all is good now.
I talked to the guy at Stonewall creek outfitters,and decided on a L&R 900t which is thier Hawken lock as opposed to their rpl lock since I’m not really replacing it in a Lyman only part of a Lyman!but since I’m inletting the whole lock it is good and he told me it was a better lock than the rpl which is also better and the same cost I don’t think I can argue with that, I chose the “ pierced” or double neck cock I just like the looks.
,OH, the Ramrod goes right into the hole guess that’s what counts? I don’t think I can do more work without the furniture and lock now.
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Thanks for the pictures, it looks like an interesting project. :bl th up :applaud
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I'm enjoying the progress. Looking good
Kevin
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I’m glad it’s appreciated,I’m kind of stuck right now can’t do to much more shaping til I get the lock and hardware even the butt stock is needing the butt plate I can rough shape it but not much more I can inlett the hook breech but I was even considering a longer one for that instead of the Lyman.
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Getting a longer one would be good, if only to get away from Lyman's patent breech!
~Kees~
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I went with the Lyman just because I had to keep the ball rolling however it was a bitch,and the hook breech became dictator! While I thought I had the barrel inlet done,the Hooke breech said no,you have to make the barrel go deeper because I have to be deep enough to have wood over me for shapin the top of the wrist,almos,almost 1/8” deeper and it would not,could not get along with me until the inlet started to grow and threatened to be too wide I solved the communication problem by glueing the barrel to the hook breec and the served as one unit to line up and layout, then I realized the problem And began file ,scraping and sanding ,it will look good when finished,however if I find a hooked breech tang That I like and wider I may consider it
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Its starting to look like a riflenow,I ordered the buttplate, trigger guard sight and forend cap from the Hawken shoppe. But i dont think i like the forend cap so i ordered a different one from TOW along with an iron entry pipe,this week i will order yhe L&R 900d lock from Stonewall Creek outfitters, no special reason except i like those two and he reccomended the 900 as a better lock and i like the double neck on the 900d. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] so I am getting somewhere long way to go but I have not yet trashed a piece of wood!
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Looking GOOD! :hairy
~Kees~
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Man sure looks like its coming along.
I started my Fowler build, your stock looks clean .
Somehow mine is covered in inlet black . messy.
Keep it going . it's looks good
Kevin
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I did my wedge slots today and I have to wait for my hardware and furniture to arrive ,probably and hopefully not more than a week TOW has not shipped so far but the Hawkin shoppe did today ,laurel mountain just ordered today but I don’t need that yet.I m gonna make my wedge plates but I need a trip to the coin shoppe for junk silver ,every thing else except foofaraw is iron. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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While I wait I may start fiddling with the cherry stock for the Fowler project ,I had started before but the wood has issues and I found another piece of cherry thick enough for a stock in my supply.I wish that one could talk as it has just enough rough edges that it could be a native owned or a settler it has two tacks in the stock and a brass ring through the underrib as I stated before.it was won in an auction of local stuff by an antique dealer lady who worked with my wife in the county.
Up to about 100 years ago in the Ramapo Mountains of southern N.Y and Northern N.J. There was an area populated by a people of mixed blood of white,black and Native American extraction ,they were largely untouched by outsider until probably the 1920’s ,they dated back to pre revolution times, this is largely a history by word of mouth and local stories ,so there is a deal of truth to it,but much is conjecture,the auction where the Fowler originated was ,I believe,from that general area,so the hints of its heritage could be interesting but no real provenance until it starts jabbering!
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I’ve been busy,the hardware got here last week so I inletted the buttplate,the pipe is inletted but very stiff so almost inletted,I also made silver wedge plates ,they’re not final finished and by the time I finished making them they were smaller and thinner than I would like but once they are on ,what do they do- nothing right? So I will mount them and if they don’t look right,I’ll make more,speaking of these can they simply be pinned on with silver or brass tacks? I think I heard someone say they did them like that on early Rifles and there is no real need to ever take them off.I don’t think there will be a cheek piece the stock is not thick enough,although I have enough of the wood left to actually apply one,anybody ever done this? [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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I think I heard someone say they did them like that on early Rifles and there is no real need to ever take them off.
Only time mine came off was when I cut a slot in the wedge to hold a pin installed behind the plates so the wedges are held captive. Can't lose them in the field if I have to remove the barrel for some reason.
http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=22453.msg210753#msg210753
Track of the Wolf charges extra for a wedge so modified!
~Kees~
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The only reason mine came off was I thought about using it for a model ,but,the Lyman wedge plates were longer than my pieces of silver ,so I opted for making oval pieces of my own fashioning but similar to many offered at parts places,I may consider fancier ones and buy silver sheet,I used silver quarters and flattened them out really there’s is no need to flatten then for wedge plates just smooth off one side and shape and inlet I feel mine may be a bit thin but they only sit there with no mechanical stress or wear so...? I shaped the forend for the tips nd inletted the entry pipe tonight,lock and trigger come tomorrow [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Looks like she's come'n along nicely, good job! :hairy :applaud
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Got these just now [ Invalid Attachment ] now I have a whole rifle,I just have to put every thing in its right place and add some powder and lead and boom!
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Yes Sir, shes coming right along, building a rifle is like eating an Elephant!
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I’m a little stalled right now to read up on lock inletting and I have to study on where to put the lock bolt(s) as this has no prepped hole for it,I am pretty sure I can deal with it,but I did not expect it ,or even realize it until tonight,the Lyman had only the one,I have had a few small foul ups that I worked around,but ,generally things have gone smoothly,but I have noticed that foul ups,even when you figure a way around,tend to effect other aspects and come back to haunt you,like right now,I am wondering if My mainspring might meet my ramrod hole when I inlet
Don’t get me wrong,I am enjoying this and learning,I have found ways to do things that would be easier than the way I did them,.
I notice just now the Lyman lock has an xtra strong boss hilt up for its single bolt ,is this to imply that I should use 2 lock bolts to secure mine?
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From checking it out I see I do need to use 2 bolts now and change the lock bolt layout any way as the mainspring is where the single Lyman lock bolt threaded in. You learn something every day wether you want to or not!
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Yes Sir, shes coming right along, building a rifle is like eating an Elephant!
You are right, Jim.
I always I always had trouble with elephant ear sandwiches. Finding buns large enough for them was the big problem. :bigsmile:
John (Bigsmoke)
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Here’s a question,why are mainspring vises designed as they are,with a long bar?I have and old hand vise I have used for mainsprings and a machinist parallel clamp and needle nose vise grips all [ Invalid Attachment ] work and control the compression degree of the leaf spring in locks ,is there a reason the bar spreads the pressure across the length of the spring or a reason not use a compressor tool that places the force on a small area of the spring? I fully understand the need of not scratching springs,but was curious about the design reasons.
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I did finally screw up,and I don’t know how bad this is,it’s not game over but it seems my flash guard is ahead of my stock there is a,maybe 1/8” gap between them,this is ignorance on my part until I started inletting the lock I was only vaguely aware of something called a flash guard or the reason for that little curved section of wood ,does not seem terrible to me,hardly even noticed it before!
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Could you post a photo?
Thanks,
~Kees~
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
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I did finally screw up,and I don’t know how bad this is,it’s not game over but it seems my flash guard is ahead of my stock there is a,maybe 1/8” gap between them,this is ignorance on my part until I started inletting the lock I was only vaguely aware of something called a flash guard or the reason for that little curved section of wood ,does not seem terrible to me,hardly even noticed it before!
Such a gap is NOT unusual, and it's nothing to be overly concerned about, here is a picture of an old french fusil with the same sort of gap,....
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWfjNt0S-34/YHt5duhNdnI/AAAAAAACELs/vUJzmuk-tW4CnIVneS6fsJTQybPd_At_wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1280/Screen%2BShot%2B2018-08-25%2Bat%2B8.52.06%2BAM%2B%25283%2529.jpg
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I wouldn't worry about that at all. :hairy
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That was as I thought inconsequential,however with that on my mind I realized tonight ( ready?) I had done a really bang up job of flattening my inlet surface and to me the sides were really good with no huge gaps or cut outs.the problem was,I had taken the shoulder of wood behind the bolster out and leveled the bottom of the inlet to that resulting in wy to much wood gone at the top rear of the inlet and a really out of level inlet surface,( but nicely done),I thought of ways to put back wood even managed to make a wedge shaped piece that fit ,however,I know that when it came to the operations necessary to inlet the lock parts no thin slat of wood will likely remain without breaking ,without any other reasonable recourse the only way to cure this situation was,another stock,can’t do it budget overrun and stubborn Germanblood that said “ you made the mess,you fix it!”.the only other option ,that I could see was to glass bed it...I know ...not HC ..however my first inclination is to build a good rifle the second consideration was to be as historically correct as possible,..and my apologies,I did try and will as much as possible do that, however ,in this instance some epoxies have been and are being used ,I will in future endeavors try to keep it that but I really did not want to keep quiet and have my use of epoxies and new age methods be exposed and cause me to get burned at the stake for witchcraft or anything anything else.Please forgive and understand. :bigsmile: :luff:.
[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] as you can see I prepped the inlet after cleaning with laquer thinner by scoring to give the epoxiy something to hold which is important with hard tight wood like this maple,I also colored it and mixed it with fine sawdust which I have found helps the epoxy cut better and it also thickens it I greased the plate with wax,and filled all holes with wax keep stuff out of the holes and,then laid a wax paper pattern under the plate to keep any thing out of the holes and then Saran Wrap under that to make sure there’s no stickage,would not want any chance of the plate getting locked in with glue and have to pry it out and maybe bend the plate,I really wanted to inlet this by hand but maybe next time I’ll pay attention.
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Well they say bad luck comes in threes,mistakes also ,it doesn’t matter it’s all bad !Not really all,just some obtacles I have to overcome and improvise on ,I have the lock inlaid,then had to do just a bit more( leave well enough alone.) [ Invalid Attachment ] I just stared in amazement! Luckily it’s not a crack that goes across the barrel channel or gets derectly impacted by recoil just a junk above and into the inlay ,hopefully it won’t break out after a few shots and stays repaired!I think I can refinish it invisible, [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] I am ,while waiting for at least 24 hours for titebond 3 to get set good and solid,trying to plan my lock bolt(s) ,I don’t have many options the best 2 Central possibilities are into the bolster or immediately under it both of them require to drill through the hook breech and either through the breech bolt hook or slightly grind the hook for clearance very little room for error as it has to either hit the bolster or option 2 has go just about right through the L&R stamp and directly under the bolster any lower will interfere with main spring movement (NO!) to far foreword it will hit the tail of the mainspring,to far rearward and it will hit the arm of the tumbler [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] the only other bolt options are just ahead of the mainspring and at the tail and under the sear bar I have to at least do I of the first two and possibly the foreword position although Lyman uses just one,of course thier lock is a different can of worms and designed with a thick heavy boss for the bolt .I am thinking the bolster as that wil pull it tight to the barrel and make for a tight seal between the barrel and pan and supply more metal for threading. However that might just require drilling through the breech bolt hook and removing the lock bolt to remove the barrel [ Invalid Attachment ] OK......WHAT DO YOU THINK.?the lower position all requires drill into the slant of the next flat a whole mother aspect!I am pretty sure what I’ll have to do but let’s hears some feedback a regular old breechbolt barrel has its attractions. But not in the budget right now. I roped this mustang ...now let’s see me ride it!
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Going through the bolster with your lock bolt is ideal, but I've never built anything that required a hooked breech so I'm probably of little help, can you move both lock bolts rearward enough to get some clearance?
As for the blemish in your stock,.... does the crack go clear through into the barrel channel?
I've always stayed away from glass bedding my barrels, but in a case such as yours I'd probably consider doing so after removing a little wood in the channel. :bl th up
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This only my first build but the lock I’m using does not allow many places to bolt,the very ends front and back and the two central places already mentioned,I would rather uae the center positionand forward just in front of the main spring if I have two bolts ,one may suffice .it’s a learning curve...but a sharp one!I never thought a hooked breech would make a difference til I got around the curve..and there she was!
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I agree with Rollingb. Just go through the bolster if you have to. The Plug threaded into the breech is doing what it's suppose to, so there should be no worries about that.
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This only my first build but the lock I’m using does not allow many places to bolt,the very ends front and back and the two central places already mentioned,I would rather uae the center positionand forward just in front of the main spring if I have two bolts ,one may suffice .it’s a learning curve...but a sharp one!I never thought a hooked breech would make a difference til I got around the curve..and there she was!
I have several flintlocks AND percussions that only have one lock bolt. :hairy
If you're gonna use a side plate that has 2 holes in it, simply but a "dummy bolt" in the front hole and it'll be fine. :bl th up
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It didn’t require the hooked breech I just revamped my Lyman and didn’t have the sense or experience to realize what the hook breech would effect.Now I have to deal with it .lol but I do have a solution that’s workable.I think.
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Thought I’d finally get back to letting you know how’s it going! First off the crack repaired nicely the finish would help it disappear,the lock inletted without a problem using 1 bolt by drilling the hole as far back on the bolster as possible and as low on the bolster corner leaving just enough space for strong threads I was succesful(TROY at Stonewall Creek suggested as far back as possible,I added the low part!)putting the hole there enabled me to avoid problems with the breech bolt hook and with the hooked tang o just had to file a divot in the back for the lock bolt to pass through and no problems with the normal operation of the hook breech.Unfotunately after inletting the lock I discovered a problem with it,the lock would release the cock way to easy ,matter of fact if I tapped the side with a hammer the sear would release so I sent it back to L&R for repair,no problem just a pain,meanwhile I’ll dowhat I can
,I inletted the trigger leaving adjustment space and not setting any screws until the lock returns.
I rough shaped the stock back to the buttstock from the grip area foreward ,I’ll continue that tomorrow,with any luck íll finish the rifle when the lock comes back [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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:applaud :hairy
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Good to read you're back on track with your project. :bl th up
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I'm still working on my kit but what I am Assembling doesn't compare to what you're Building.
I admire your ability. Looking good
Kevin
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What Is... this.. ab...abi..abilitee? I did not think I had that much. But if you just do one step after the other ,you will walk a mile, however I walk slow and I sure have tripped and stumbled a lot! I do appreciate the complement ,thanks,I’m glad that someone thinks it good work ,I’ll try to finish rough shaping it tonight or tomorrow .I will ask again it’s not wide enough for a cheek piece and iplay with the idea of applying extra wood to make one,however it may end up worse than non at all, it could conceivably be done and with no glue lines or joints showing and the grain almost a perfect match and titebond III is really good glue,as in forever.However,I may overstep my bounds!And skill-level
Has anyone ever done such a thing?I have not seen a Hawken/plains rifle without one either,except my Renegade,I see them as slightly redundant ,would not miss one as far as shooting comfort however ,I do see them as attractive decorations and as a great place to accentuate silver foofaraw and a attachment back to the past masters ,when guns could be tools as well as a one of a kind,individuals artwork and not just black metal and plastic machines .So,has anyone ever added one with glue or should I just go without?
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What Is... this.. ab...abi..abilitee? I did not think I had that much. But if you just do one step after the other ,you will walk a mile, however I walk slow and I sure have tripped and stumbled a lot! I do appreciate the complement ,thanks,I’m glad that someone thinks it good work ,I’ll try to finish rough shaping it tonight or tomorrow .I will ask again it’s not wide enough for a cheek piece and iplay with the idea of applying extra wood to make one,however it may end up worse than non at all, it could conceivably be done and with no glue lines or joints showing and the grain almost a perfect match and titebond III is really good glue,as in forever.However,I may overstep my bounds!And skill-level
Has anyone ever done such a thing?I have not seen a Hawken/plains rifle without one either,except my Renegade,I see them as slightly redundant ,would not miss one as far as shooting comfort however ,I do see them as attractive decorations and as a great place to accentuate silver foofaraw and a attachment back to the past masters ,when guns could be tools as well as a one of a kind,individuals artwork and not just black metal and plastic machines .So,has anyone ever added one with glue or should I just go without?
John,
Here's a picture of an addition to my cheek piece I did on my retirement rifle a couple years back, as I didn't get the cheek piece exactly like I wanted when making the stock. so... I just inlet the wood into the that area as I did not come out far enough with the cheek piece (dang castoff), I then used beeswax and a brass screw to hold it in place. I've since made some file angle adjustments to it, and it has held up just fine.
(https://i.imgur.com/HYOGTYd.jpg?2)
This is what it looks like today;
(https://i.imgur.com/jR0Axaq.jpg?1)
A cheek piece is not necessary, it's up to you whether you want one or not. You're doing fine! :bl th up
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Well ,I decided to chicken out ad do without a cheek piece actually I felt I had enough on my plate getting this shaped and turned into a functioning rifle and I am looking forward to take what I learned and start that Fowler project rolling again,I found a old book ,for years I thought it was an old catalogue for the company called” lock stock and barrel” and never looked at it so I was in the attic looking for another book and saw it began looking at it,it is in reality an old guide to assist in renovating and rebuilding antique muzzleloader and methods and tools to help,it’s actually a great resource can’t believe I passed it over all these years,I think I got it with a bunch of gun books and literature I got at a gun auction [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] cool cheek piece by the way I actually made the cheekpiece before I decided it was to much this time. It
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The ideal cheek piece is shaped into the stock as we make it, but sometimes we have to use a little different approach if we, (well kind 'a botch it "as I did on my rifle") as I was 'a making it...
In the end, it's all free hand learning unless we have a "stock copying machine" to do our cutting for us... So without one - we're doing it the old fashion way, and sometimes IMHO that is the best way to hone one's skills...
Always tell yourself (as I do myself),,, if we should make a "blunder" - don't look at it as a blunder - look at it as an opportunity on a learning curve so to speak, and do what it takes to make it work. :shake
A side note; the ol' gun makers had their "epoxy type adhesives" in the form of hide glue. Many a folks won't show or tell of their miss-Q's, so I give you lots of credit. You're doing fine.
I've always found this video a good watch with inspiration for sure;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTy3uQFsirk&t=4s
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This project is coming along nicely! I keep thinking of making a new stock for the Hodgepodge rifle but have never done one from a plain piece of wood before; you are inspiring me to try it. If it doesn't turn out, I will still have the original stock. Of course, I have to finish the canoe first to get some room in the garage/shop, then clean out all the accumulated junk so I have room to do something new.... :o
~Kees~
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I thought I was the only one with accumulated junk!
I still have some shaping to do on the buttstock to shape the comb, the grip and the end of the lock panels ,just the curves used to delineate the three,I’ll thin and sharpen the comb but Leave the area below it fatter as the grip flows into the ,I’ll also cut or rasp a slight “end to the lock panel,just enough to seperate it from the grip right now I feel they are all mixed together ,I guess it’s stronger that way but less pleasing to the eye [ Invalid Attachment ] y [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] as you can see I inlaid 1 side of wedge plates I tint the epoxy and any glue I’ve hade to use for repairs and bedding etc.as they will blend in with the finish which will be a reddish brown using Aqua fortis and a red stain ,hopefully this will avoid the problems of any glue not taking the stain.as in holding with older time wise rifles,I held to using brass escution pins to hold the plates on ,the pins were cut t about 3/8”-7/16” long restock predrilled with a slightly tight hole then the plates were bedded and glued in their inlets then tackedwhile wet and left to set,,hopefully never to move again.I am getting a little better with inletting but much room for improvement ,I thought the one plate was tight enough but it was a hair big,I then allowed for that but the second inlet was a bit small and had to be enlarged a hair to get the wedge in. I’d much rather the inlet be too small & make it bigger though..
Thanks for the words of encouragement from all there were some bad events,but I got over them.
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She's a shaping up just fine! :hairy
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I trimmed down the comb a the back of the lock panels to accentuate them so this things at the point of 100-120 grit sandpaper ,I will sand the whole down to 320 grit then inlay the lock bolt and toe plate and pin things that get pinned along with any minor inletting till very thing is together as a rifle then take it all apart and polish and finish the metal and either brown or rust blue those parts ( still thinking on that,!)and apply the stock finish.I called L&R and they advised me my lock is on its way back!how many business’s give you like,uh 2 days,turn around. I know it’s an easy switch but still ,most places you would be waiting awhile.I mailed it last Wed.at least 2 days to Sumter,SC and on Monday it’s on its way back,that’s good service ,thank you Tim at L&R! [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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then take it all apart and polish and finish the metal and either brown or rust blue those parts (still thinking on that,!)
I used LMF to blue a barrel, something you may want to consider.
Here is what she looks like after bluing using Laurel Forge degreasing and browning solution. I followed the directions although they suggest sanding down to a 600 grit and I stopped at 420. I made a scalding trough like they recommend, although they say use 2 1/2" PVC which I couldn't find, but 3" worked fine. Also, to save a bit on buying it the lumber yard guy suggested using sewer pipe which is not as thick as schedule 40 PVC. It worked out great. I sawed it with a hand saw and would suggest that you glue the end caps on first to stiffen it up a bit. I bought 6 gallons of distilled water for this at Walmart, and have 3 gallons left over.... Only problem I found is that the corners of the flats are pretty thin, possibly from getting to carried away with carding.
Anyway, here are a photo of the assembled rifle and one of the barrel, screws, thimbles and under rib in the scalding tank:
[ Invalid Attachment ]
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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I use a steam tube powered by a wallpaper steamer the tube is 3” pvc stood upright ,the steam is fed through the bottom, once the item is rusted and the steam is built up you hang it through the top foil it turns black then I scrub with a tooth brush sized carding brush( Brownells)I tried the carding wheel but thought it too harsh ,I use the brush with acetone then oooo steel wheel wit same til clean ,then repeat usually3-5 times will give you a really beautiful,and way durable blue [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] hope you don’t mind the modern contraption,just try to look at the blue job and ignore the rest!i need some ideas to fix this [ Invalid Attachment ] check out the toe of the stock under the toe plate and buttplate I will eventually get the hang of curlymaple
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Winterhawk,that is a nice looking little rifle and excellent blueing job,I had considered a scalding tube like that .but for various reasons decided on a steam rig ,however it is accomplished,I feel rust bluing is a very superior way to blue and far more durable.I am thinking browning this time.
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i need some ideas to fix this [ Invalid Attachment ] check out the toe of the stock under the toe plate and buttplate I will eventually get the hang of curlymaple
It's a bit difficult to advise on this because the picture only shows one side of the stock, but usually repairs for this nature (if you can't find the original piece that chipped off) is gluing a small 3-cornered piece of the same wood in place and trimming it down and sanding it to fill the void. Just make sure the "grain" is running the right direction, and it won't be noticed by anyone but yourself. :bl th up
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i need some ideas to fix this [ Invalid Attachment ] check out the toe of the stock under the toe plate and buttplate I will eventually get the hang of curlymaple
It's a bit difficult to advise on this because the picture only shows one side of the stock, but usually repairs for this nature (if you can't find the original piece that chipped off) is gluing a small 3-cornered piece of the same wood in place and trimming it down and sanding it to fill the void. Just make sure the "grain" is running the right direction, and it won't be noticed by anyone but yourself. :bl th up
What Rondo says, and you've got the right kind of glue setting there on the bench. :bl th up
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Be sure to pre stain the glue joint to make it invisible.
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This is a link to charcoal bluing on TOF's site. I suggest checking it over now, as he is going to shut it down this month! Check out the other stuff he has, there is a lot of information which folks might want to copy over to a word processor and save.
Anyway, the link: http://oldfoxtraders.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26
~Kees~
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Thanks for the assist,the other side looks fine,I used that glue to put my longbow back together after the a handle layer unglued when shooting I felt and heard it so I know it has a lot of stress there,took it too a primitive bowyer ,he told me I’m not gonna fix that because I would have to charge you $100 but I will tell you what to do for free.and he told me to use titebond III and a couple other hints ,I did as he said and it’s been great ever since.he’s a Marine,like me,and he hunts with,and makes longbows,and the arrows and knapps the flint tips he uses or hunting,he’s now counted also among my friends,too,! He gives survival,hunting,and flint napping lessons.
As said I am looking for that piece of wood
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Yes sir, Tite-Bond III is what I use when making a bow, (and all wood projects). It has never failed me. :bl th up
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I began metal finishing now and my lock is back and installed, it workshowever when the set trigger is tripped it operates but does not trip the cock,so the front trigger works but not the set,I believe it has to do with the trigger position maybe the rear of the trigger has to inlet deeper so the set hits it.,or maybe it is hitting wood yet.sure could use a mini x ray!I wrapped the frizzen to keep the parts cushioned for dry firing however I think I might just make a wooden flint. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] I am getting better at inletting but triggers are a itch!
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The trigger situation was resolved by cleaning up the inlet area and deepening the rear tail of the trigger just at bit so now for all intents and purposes I have an unfinished in the white rifle! [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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:hairy
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Started using the laurel mountain brown waiting for the first treatment now,at 1800 I have take care and scale it,I’ve decided to use it to blue the s small parts ,lock plate,frizzen,cock and jaw,entry pipe and foreend cap toe plate and buttplate he screws I may nitre blue,the barrel and hook breech I will use Brownells classic rust blue ,I have used it before on my “ other” rifles ,it does a great durable blue and this way I can compare the two when finished.I will scale once today then tomorrow I will steam and card during the day.I am a bit under the weather,so much so I had a COVID test Thursday ,it came back negative( whew!) I am immunized but things have happened so I’m just sick!a nd don’t want to sit up all night rust bluing and stock finishing.
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Three cycles in this how they look [ Invalid Attachment ] this is with laurel mtn. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] The last two are Brownells classic rust blue ,so far the Laurel mountain is ahead but they both need at least another cycle maybe more.
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:hairy That is looking good! I bet the finished product will be SPECTACULAR!!! :yessir:
~Kees~
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Mama put me in sick bay,no work or play.this will hold me up a couple days,bad cold .I told her Marines are better left alone in the rain.Her answer is unprintable.
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One thing I discovered when I polished (actually just a sort of a220 grit brushed finish) ,was under the bead blasting on the lock plate is some pitting from I think arc welding that is a bitch to remove without leaving a depression in the plate or filing the whole plate down it was unnoticeable with the bead blast and the bead blast surface on the cock and frizzen enabled a really dark ,if dead flat blue ,if I did it again I would stay with the factory beadblast.that area is normally hidden by the hammer pretty well though.
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Mama put me in sick bay,no work or play. this will hold me up a couple days, bad cold. I told her Marines are better left alone in the rain. Her answer is unprintable.
:o :lol sign :laffing :luff:
That just made my day, thank you!
~Kees~
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I had to get a second COVID test today,also neg(whew! Again) and chest X-ray and finally got a script for antibiotic,not in time for today though.what if it was like a movie,your alright up to the end,but you have to get the medicine In you within 24 hrs!The pharmacy doesn’t open til 10:00 am,sir!
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Most recent update ,I have TOW-aqua fortised the stock,I believe last night I final blued all fittings and the barrel with rust blue I have the butt plate and screws to do yet and I will use LMF stain to add just a shade of red to the wood then several coats of oil after a bit of wet sanding [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] the pic of the barrel is as finished and oiled,the hardware was before one more round in the steamer I will go out and check them now then my 7 acres waits for mowing.seems like a good day for fishin!
I did not intentionally hide it but the chip at the toe did not stay it’s small I will try again but I may have to cut and fit a bigger piece to replace it to give it more surface for glue to hold.
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Looks like it's turning out pretty nice! :applaud :hairy
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looking forward to the first shot. :bl th up
kevin
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Soon,the only thing left is stock finish and the buttplate and wedge plate inlays i just reassembled the lock, [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Well I put the first shot of oil on it( Tru oil)after a red stain over the AF ,I like it,my wife don’t,she says it’s too red, [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] I used no flash and of course I had th advantage of seeing it with the lock in and the rust blue complements the red or offsets it but ,to me,it looks good. I also included a view of my soon to be ,newest horn project!,I found it in the “Reduced”aisle at Tractor Supply ,thought it could be ,if nothing else,an interesting project. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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I tend to agree with your wife as I've never been overly fond of reddish stained stocks, I much prefer brown (even to the point of being nearly black :o).
I used to own a 20 ga. fowler that had a cherry stock that I used walnut stain on, and I did like it with it's hint of red showing (just a tiny bit) through the walnut stain. :bl th up
I think you're gonna have your hands full with that horn. :)
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Yeah,I’m not sure how I’m gonna swing that horn but I am gonna try.....something...lol.as far as the stock ,my intention from the start was red brown.
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I guess that's what makes the world go round. I tend to agree with shooterj2003. I've built several red rifles and still have two of them.
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as far as the stock ,my intention from the start was red brown.
[/quote]
Well I think you achieved your goal.
I like it.
Kevin
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Thanks for this amazing "blow by blow" and a near-tutorial one at that. I have one very red rifle that's gotten several complimentary comments over the years. No, I didn't build it, though. I like the reddish stock and have one rifle with a brownish cast & red highlights. You're doing really good.
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I have three coats of tru oil on it now and did not take more pics tonight but am stuck on it and can’t wait to put it together put a French amber flint in the lock to try it and she seems to spark quite well.
Thank you for the complement Hanshi ,I appreciate everyone’s help and support.it helped that I had some experience working on other guns as well as b p kits but it was a learning experience,can’t wait for the next one,that would be that Fowler.
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I had mentioned in one post I had made wedge plates(escutcheons) from silver quarters,and I did but they just weren’t very well done and inletted only one side for them, so I caved and ordered 4 nickel ones from TOW,something went awry and I only ordered 2 ,so I had to make 2 to match these,practice helps as these 2 looked and were much better ,I used a Mexican50 centavo and a Barbados quarter ( think) and thier alloy matched the nickel color ,I bought them at a yard sale 4 coins for a dollar ,I bought 16,he also had lead rods 2 for a dollar ,they were about a foot long and 1/2” thick ,I did not need lead but bought some. Anyway I kind of got ahead of myself by finishing before I was fully inletted and also had to make sure the new escutcheons would at least cover the two old inlets ,they will...just.lucky.
I had to have a way to finish ,sand and polish these so I made a tool maybe some f you guys and maybe gals could use,took me awhile to think it up as my fingernails are wearing down ! [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
I also figured to send you better pics of the stock,it’s not quite as red as the first pic seems to look.
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Pretty stock,.... the color closely resembles what we used to call "golden oak". :applaud :bl th up
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Somehow trying to improve a wedge plate inlay (actually incurable left it alone)but a dent appeared in stock and finish at wedge got muddied so best fix was to strip the entire stock down to bare stained wood and steamed 2 spots and touched up the stain color,now I am back at 2 coats Tru oil hoping the new finish will help the oversized inlet a bit otherwise someday I may make 4 bigger wedge plates to fix it OR 1 very slightly bigger one but the human eye is not easily fooled,and the craftsman’s memory always sees the cold hard truth! I think my inletting ability is improving but I guess fate serves us an occasional piece of humble pie we must choke on to remind us of the proper way to do things.
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Stripped it again the Tru oil just was not turning out for me,and after two strips I got tired of it,I decided to go with something I’ve wanted to try and it worked nicely,I used min wax wiping poly ,five coats satin and it looks really good ,I won’t bore you you with more pictures til I assemble it tomorrow ,bassicly everything’s done but the ramrod.
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Stripped it again the Tru oil just was not turning out for me,and after two strips I got tired of it,I decided to go with something I’ve wanted to try and it worked nicely,I used min wax wiping poly ,five coats satin and it looks really good ,I won’t bore you you with more pictures til I assemble it tomorrow ,bassicly everything’s done but the ramrod.
That's interesting. I recently just refinished a rifle stock and decided to try something new since I had the stain on hand, and I went with a dark walnut Danish oil followed by a coat of dark walnut Min Wax, and it turned out very nice. Took several days to dry, but it turned out nice. I only let the Danish oil set on the wood 30 minutes - then hand rubbed the stock - then followed that with the Min Wax. After at least 3 days of drying - I once again hand rubbed the stock and that's where she's a gonna stay. (Though I may put a coat of tru-oil on it. As of now it doesn't appear to need it)...
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I generally have no problems with tru oil , I guess it just meant to be different,I finished the rifle this morning it is now all assembled ,a couple small dings in the finish and a last minute” didn’t figure on that moment “and I changed from screws in the wedge plates too brass tacks when the wedge knocked out a wedge plate upon installation,those little screws only hold the plates barely with no problems anyway ,I adjusted the plate hole and the edge tip then tacked the plate in.this was an original plan that got scrapped for the screws that were a pain in the rear and in my opinion too short and unavailable in longer size so it worked out,! [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] well I made mistakes ,learned lessons and fixed boo boos Hopefully the next one will be less problematical ,but this one will be special and is mine now.
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I think it looks good! Good Job!!! :hairy
On those side plates, I feel you did the right thing. On the side plates I've done in the past for pins rather than a wedge, I did use little brass brads / pre-drilled a very small hole in the wood and squirted some super glue down the holes (as best I could) before driving them home. Have never had a side plate come loose yet when tapping out a pin.
I like it! You did good!!! :toast
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Thank you Joe,now if she shoots,I’ll be a happy hunter,I’m gonna stay out of the shop a few days! At least with guns mommas got some plans with wood involved it’s raining but I may head to the club range today.I could shoot the postal match.
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Looking good shootr.Just remember, everyone you build will be an exercise in problem solving. Keep at it. :hairy
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Looking good shootr.Just remember, everyone you build will be an exercise in problem solving. Keep at it. :hairy
Same what Hank seez!
I've used a lot of different finish over the years, whatever was in vogue at time, I had to have.
But, I always came back to Tru-Oil, it has served me well.
As a side note; Color of the stock is as individual as ones favorite choice of lube. There ain't no best color, but there are many favorites, and they all serve the owner well.
My favorite is a light red, and IMHO, Shootr has done a bang-up job on this rifle.
I've followed this thread from its start, and like Hank said, your problem solving has improved along with your skills.
Good job!
Russ...
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What!? .....I thought it was an unwritten agreement that there would be no more problems after this?
Anyway,going forward,I have nothing against tru oil at all ,I have done many stocks ,much tru oil used,just needed to try something else this time,unlike a marriage,with wood finishes ,I can be promiscuous,I have tried many and avoided some,prefer not to spend weeks or months,have been tempted but I have trouble with long term commitments,where wood is concerned!
I did just receive a bottle of Dembart continental style stock and checkering oil just today,to late for this but I will find a use.
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" I thought it was an unwritten agreement that there would be no more problems after this?"
Nope, no such agreement can be found among any group of builders, and or experimenters.....it is pretty much "Carved in Stone" that you Will continue to face problems, and you Will continue to search for Solutions, as long as you are a willing participant.
Many refer to this as the Golden Rule, I prefer to call it Life!
Russ...
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That looks GOOD! You may have given me the inspiration to refinish the T-C PA Hunter. Where I pulled the tacks (they are ALL gone now) looks pretty sick. It's time to get the stripper out and prep this puppy before trying Tru Oil.
Thanks for the kick in the pants!
~Kees~
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Thank you I’m glad to have inspired you.can’t wait to see it! Yesterday I actually got two shots out of the new rifle,one at the range ,low in the white on a TMA target I had printed,it was pouring out but we have a covered shooting line but the target was too wet to save and upon trying to reload ,the 5/16” rod proved too small and flexible for me to do more than get a ball 3” down the bore! ( a good argument for a short starter here -which I did not bring) I had no choice but to pack up and go home. At home I retrieved my short starter and a heavier 3/8” oak rod blank and finished loading the rifle and advising my wife of my intent went down and shot another target in the yard (,I lease an old farm with lots of land so this is not problem,) except for my wife ,who yelled “No More!” You did not say it would be that loud!” She is not a shooter. But all was well and ,I cleaned the gun.
A problem here,I had bought the entry pipe and it is a 3/8 pipe,however a very very tight 3/8” ,so tight that it shaves off wood from a 3/8” rod , I thought i could get away with a 5/16” rod,however,under worse conditions,chilly wet conditions,no short starter,wet hands ,and really flexible hickory 5/16” rod..I was seriously defeated at trying to reload,if I had been hunting -end of hunt and what if I had really, really needed a second shot, ? What I did to solve this problem was to basically taper the rods ( I made two rods last night after cleaning the gun) and if I want two brass ends I’ll have to ft a smaller 5/16” tip to the small end ,right now the one end s just bare wood, the other option I s of course ,refit to a bigger entry pipe. There is not a lot of metal in the present one to drill out. It’s a pretty thin casting.
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I taper my 3/8" rods as well and have never ran into a problem. I always use a short starter. I don't care one bit if someone claims they aren't traditional - bottom line is that they work, period!
When I tip a loading rod I only tip the end facing the muzzle. That's all I've ever needed, and I have several rifles that I don't bother with tipping the rod at all. Figure out what works for you the best and run with it is my thinking. :bl th up
Always nice to get that first load and shot through a new rifle or (a reworked one). That first trip to the Range and that first shot will tell you quite a bit. Have fun with it - you've got a lot of time invested in it not to. :hairy
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I am thoroughly impressed with the way you "improvised, adapted and overcame" each challenge with that rifle. Looks very good to my eyes. My red flintlock rifle is one I've had and liked for a long time, red looks good.
I do the same thing with my ramrods that Ohio Joe related. Sometimes I dispense with a threaded tip completely and make one from antler. They won't hold a jag but work great for loading.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyVR3yqr/PICT0471.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I like that, Hanshi :hairy
I might just have to try that for my smoothy. :bl th up
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While I have usually used two tips one with a 10/32 thread and one with 8/32, my “ need” for them has never been great and while I have had to pull a ball with one,it is always with a bit of wondering wether the rod will give before the ball pulls out ,the heavier shop rod is a better candidate for this,and other than that job a plain stick is pretty much all you need to load and shoot ,as long as everything runs smoothly,and I have seen a bunch of old originals with a simple “wiping stick”. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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You could tip with a 10/32nds end and get the 8/32nds adaptor,,, thereby only having to tip one end of the ramrod.
For pulling a ball (which I think I've pulled 2 in over 40 years / one for myself - and one for someone else), but I prefer to dabble powder (if possible) behind the ball under the nipple or through the vent.
However, I do keep one rod dedicated for the purpose of pulling a ball. It's made of something similar to fiberglass. I bet I bought that 40+ years ago to be on the safe side.
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My experience on that particular job is very similar and I have also done it both ways and enjoyed the feeling when the rod breaks while doing it! I have the unbreakable rod but it is sized for my renegade to short for this critter I have a solid steel rod I made but I also have an Outers shotgun rod which Is my cleaning rod for all big calibers. I am kind of thinking of getting one of those gunners mate tools I recently saw too.
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I got to thinking about that build of yours, and the hooked breech plug...
My guess is (but I might be wrong) is that your breech plug probably has the "anti-chamber" and if so, all one would have to do is take out the vent and put fine powder (4fg or 3fg) into that anti chamber, and that would most like be enough to squib shoot a dry ball load out of the barrel. That sure beats the heck out of pulling a ball, and that is (IMHO) the "up" side of an anti-chamber breech plug... Some folks like them, and some don't... Just a matter of preference IMHO... :shake
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And that is a very good point Joe,it’s also somewhat easier with a flintlock or a a drum than a patent breech like my Renegade.
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Got some range time this morning Mister Fink was shot from a rest in this pic [ Invalid Attachment ] to see how and where she grouped she is holding about 2” high but center ,I held on his eyebrow for the last 10 hit [ Invalid Attachment ] this one was offhand not so good but the dog hunts
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As far as short starters go,I have the baddest one I know of ,I tried with and without I just like to have him along [ Invalid Attachment ] cute little bugger ain’t he?
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As far as short starters go,I have to baddest one I know of ,I tried with and without I just like to have him along [ Invalid Attachment ] cute little bugger ain’t he?
Now that's classic! I like it!!! :hairy
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Now that short starter has some wicked personality!!! :scared:
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Now that short starter has some wicked personality!!! :scared:
Same what he seez!
Russ...
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That is one cute little pussycat! I like it!! :hairy
~Kees~
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Not to drag this out,as I’m itchin to get on to that Fowler project,but is it usual to have short flint life on a new lock? I was using “French Amber” flints on my first range outing and after 3-4 shots my flints were sparking but not enough to fire,even after wiping them and the frizzen .whe I changed flints again great spark and great ignition,it is as mentioned a L&R lock and seems to hit really strong, I have to try black English flints next
.I also discover the lock is not tight enough to the barrel ,after reworking the inlet depth awhile it’s still not tight ,I also discovered with a straight edge the barrel side has a concavity with the flash hole being center of it , not much ,but enough to always have a slight gap there between the barrel and bolster ,can’t explain how unless a rookie at Lyman made it while fitting it? I may have to file it flat myself as I get fouling in the lock areas and maybe other unwanted stuff .if I put a straight edge on it and shine a light from behind I can see it.
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Not to drag this out,as I’m itchin to get on to that Fowler project,but is it usual to have short flint life on a new lock? I was using “French Amber” flints on my first range outing and after 3-4 shots my flints were sparking but not enough to fire,even after wiping them and the frizzen .whe I changed flints again great spark and great ignition,it is as mentioned a L&R lock and seems to hit really strong, I have to try black English flints next
.I also discover the lock is not tight enough to the barrel ,after reworking the inlet depth awhile it’s still not tight ,I also discovered with a straight edge the barrel side has a concavity with the flash hole being center of it , not much ,but enough to always have a slight gap there between the barrel and bolster ,can’t explain how unless a rookie at Lyman made it while fitting it? I may have to file it flat myself as I get fouling in the lock areas and maybe other unwanted stuff .if I put a straight edge on it and shine a light from behind I can see it.
Is the flint "bashing the Frizzen head on, or slicing it in a downward motion to shave off sparks? I have found that with all the flintlocks I have that a "slicing / shaving" downward motion of the flint contacting the Frizzen produces the best sparks and longest life for flints. Sometimes you just have to play with the flint and shim up the back bottom side of the flint (with leather / though I have used lead and it works great) to get your proper angle in the jaw,,, and sometimes some knapping is needed. You pretty much just have to play with it a bit. :shake
I like my flint (on all my locks) to contact the Frizzen in the middle area for longest flint life / though sometimes that rides up to 1/16 inch above the middle of the Frizzen, possibly even 1/8th of an inch.
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Maybe try using a bit shorter flint.
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Maybe try using a bit shorter flint.
:hairy :hairy :hairy
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Or nibbling a notch in the back of the flint so it can sit back further in the jaws before contacting the screw.
~Kees~
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My black English -rings ?- FLINTS-(my iPad “corrections!)are actually a bit shorter maybe flipping the flints may also help they do seem to be bashing the- (frozen ) another of its corrections- frizzen by the marks but hitting at 2/3 s up the face of the frozen,thanks for the hints.
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I put in a new black English flint,bevel up,it may be a bit short,but I used thicker leather,it only hits at the halfway point on the frizzen but seems to slide down the frizzen and scrape good sparks ,where the French amber were larger and hit at two thirds up but the marks seem to be getting bashed into the frizzen.here’s what they look like now [ Invalid Attachment ] ,I used a sharpie to blacken the frizzen for good contrast. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ] Just another pic of my hottie after another three coats and a new homemade front sight that is a little higher and looks better ,if a bit rougher .I can’t hep it,I keep wanting to tweak her!
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As far as short starters go,I have the baddest one I know of ,I tried with and without I just like to have him along [ Invalid Attachment ] cute little bugger ain’t he?
Okay, okay; let's get this straightened out right now! That short starter IS THE SOLE REASON FOR ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS! I know bad juju when I see it and I've seen it before! Get a REAL juju man to remove the curse, or is it "cuss", from that thing before it causes bore rust, warts, cats & dogs sleeping together and babies being born nekked (slightly different meaning from "naked" but still a Southern semi-synonym). :bigsmile:
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I dig your pink flip flops :bl th up
Kevin
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I dig your pink flip flops :bl th up
Kevin
Those ain't his, they belong to his "hottie"! :luff: :lol sign :laffing
~Kees~
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I had a feeling they might be mentioned,my granddaughter is my assistant!
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That angle of the flint to frizzen in that last picture looks pretty good to me. Shorter drop for sparks into the pan. :bl th up
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I’ve been trying to get out to shoot her,but seems the older I get,the more popular I get and the more work I have! And now I am prepping up for sporterifle seasonwhich runs me from sept. To March ,which is a .22 rim fire match.luckily it’s indoors at night .one thing I found out though is there is a rondevous at Odessa ,NY 5,6,7,and 8 of August and the Sporterifle organization has a meeting in Rochester ny on the 7th august,if I played my cards right I could hit both as they line up on my route to the meeting.and see some nice scenery too. I wonder…..