Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on March 26, 2021, 04:30:06 PM
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I just got to thinking this morning after my latest trip to the Range, that I've used this same "flint" that's in the rifle now - and has been - since last year, and I bet I have easily (48 plus shots) from this flint so far, (last year and this year) and it's still delivering the sparks of shaved metal to the pan very well.
It's a Black English flint (3/4x7/8) in my L&R Lock on my Retirement Rifle (which I put 8 more shots on this flint this morning / and 8 yesterday, and 8 a few weeks ago). I don't recall changing out this flint last year - (and my leather that holds it in the jaw kind of bares this out, as usually I'll install a new leather when I install a new flint.
Now I can't say for certain that my numbers above are correct, but way back I use to chart my shots from the English Flints, and I think I was averaging maybe 60 to 80 - then I'd get a not so "good" flint that would bring my average down, but this current flint sure seems to be delivering. (at least 48 shots so far - minimum)...
This flint is striking about 1/8" high of center on the frizzen and at a very nice angle (which I attribute to the cut of this flint (and it doesn't have much of a "hump back, but rather a small hump in the top center), and the rear of this flint will be usable as well in the way it's been knapped.
Hope I haven't jinxed myself with this post... :laffing
It just keeps on delivering - as they should. :bl th up
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I'm usually happy to get half that number.
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I'm usually happy to get half that number.
My personal opinion is in how the flint angles was knapped with the thickness at the hump, and of course the
quality of the flint itself... Don't get me wrong Hank, I've had some "dog" flints in the past, and will no doubt
experience more of them. But this one I really like! :bl th up
I hope not,,, but watch it all fall apart on me at this coming Sunday's, Spring Rendezvous Club Shoot.
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I never really keep very close tabs on my shot-count, but it seems I generally get from 20 to 30 shots per.
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If I get 50+ hots on a rock it's bonus time! I'm like Hank, 20 to 30 is about average for an English flint, now those white chert's that Rich Pierce had awhile back are like the energizer bunny! I've had over 100 on one of those in a pistol and no need to nap them, they do themselves!
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My personal opinion is in how the flint angles was knapped with the thickness at the hump, and of course the
quality of the flint itself...
I would add that the geometry of the lock is a major factor, plus the strength of the mainspring. I had an L&R lock which gave a great shower of sparks but ate flints like peanuts; three or four shots and it required renewing the edge, and if I got 20 shots out of a flint it was remarkable. It also struck the frizzen with great authority!
Compare that to the CVA lock in the Hodgepodge rifle. It has a longer throw and doesn't slam into the frizzen, but it still produces good sparks, and the flints last for 20 or more shots before needing to be sharpened. The Pierce flint I have been using in it lately has around 50 shots and still looks great. I have used Pierce flints in the L&R lock and they didn't last any longer than English flints or cut flints, for that matter.
The jury is still out on the "new" Pennsylvania Hunter. It has the old style T-C lock but has functioned reliably for me thus far. That's not saying very much though, because I barely have 20 shots through it, if that many. We'll see the next time I go out to shoot, unless I revert to the Hodgepodge rifle as that is my favorite!
~Kees~
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I have one flint that reached 150 strikes on the frizzen. I knew I had not changed it for a bit and counted the shots I had taken at the last couple of shoots I had been on. I counted the flints in my wallet several times just to be sure that I had not changed it at all. At about 60 I was surprised already. So I retired it to the shelf with a note. Friend says that should put back in the lock and see how many more I can get...
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One Shot, I have been reading stories like this for years, and I love 'em.
Stories like......
"I got 100 shots and my Flint is still going strong!"
"Heck I got 125 and it seems to sharpen itself!"
I honestly believe I've never got more'n 60 shots....and I know that to be a fact because I had 40 ball left in the Box.
At that point, a couple of days later, I was going to go for the full 100 shots......but that didn't happen.
In my excitement, I had forgotten to "tighten" the flint in the jaw, in its leather holder. And somewhere between cleaning, and putting the rifle back in its leather case, I hadn't tightened the Jaws, and both my flint and my leather were off the lock when I got to the Range!!! (I later found them in the shop)
I did have another gun that day, but it was a capper, so the day wasn't totally lost.
In the past, years ago, when I only shot flinters, I never thought much about "how many" shots I had fired with a particular flint.
I always carried a flint wallet with 5 extra flints and a small brass knapper, and that was good enough for a full day shooting while using the "Black English Flint" as it was known back then.
During that time frame I feel that if I got 25 or 30 shots, and I knapped a little bit with the Flint in the lock, I was good for several more days of shooting..
Some very lite judicious tapping / knapping on that Flint can extend the life of the Flint until there's just enough left for the Jaw of the Lock to hold on to....I've done it myself, but I have no clue how many shots I would get from such a flint....I never started counting until I started hearing stories back in the 1970's of how many shots some fellas can get. I just don't think I ever got that many. Sooo, 30 maybe 40 is still what I hope for.
Respectfully, Russ...
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Sometimes I think a feller just gets some good flints with the right geometry for his lock.
I also believe there is a break in period for all locks / springs.
A heavy main spring IMHO, can become a friendly mainspring where a feller stops getting his flints ate up...
I would suggest that this happens after those previous flints have finally created a proper flint to frizzen strike "zone" where no more flint "crashing" into the frizzen occurs, but rather flint meeting the frizzen with a nice metal scraping downward angle... However, I also believe this is a temporary condition that is ever changing as the metal from the frizzen is always changing with each flint strike.
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Sometimes I think a feller just gets some good flints with the right geometry for his lock.
I also believe there is a break in period for all locks / springs.
A heavy main spring IMHO, can become a friendly mainspring where a feller stops getting his flints ate up...
I would suggest that this happens after those previous flints have finally created a proper flint to frizzen strike "zone" where no more flint "crashing" into the frizzen occurs, but rather flint meeting the frizzen with a nice metal scraping downward angle... However, I also believe this is a temporary condition that is ever changing as the metal from the frizzen is always changing with each flint strike.
:hairy
Good words Joe, I feel the same.
However I have no doubt about the fact that some fellas do get 100+ shots without ever touching their Flints.
I have heard this much too often to think it's not a fact, but I have to wonder, in my mind, if it's something that they are doing?
Or, is it something I am NOT doing, or not even heard of in my years of shooting Flintlocks?
Or, is it the very simple fact that no two Flints are of the exact same quality?
Respectfully, Russ...
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JUst thinking about this, but I am sure that the flint in my southern mountain rifle is at least 16 years old, probably closer to 20. Of course, it has probably been that long since I shot the darn thing, so that probably accounts for its long life. Flints don't rot, do they?
John (Bigsmoke)
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Flints don't rot, do they?
Ha!!! I hope not!!!
After what John posted above, I got to thinking. (scary, I know)...
Anyway, it brings up the question of: "Just how long did a single flint last our forefathers?"
The following is based on the idea of an established homestead;
Think about this for a minute and put it into prospective. If a feller went hunting once a week (on average) to feed him and his family - and lets say he would take 1 or 2 shots each outing, that would require a flint strike of "52 to 104" flint strikes per year, which would mean he would use (if he gets lets say 30 shots per flint) 2 to 4 flints per year.
His other sources of feeding him and his family would be snaring and trapping critters / or raising chickens or pigs / as well as laying in a garden crop, and fishing.
Now barring any hostilities, he could lay in a pound of powder and a half dozen flints and cast 100 lead balls and feel pretty good that he was well armed and even had room for a Shooting Match or two... Though I expect the one thing we have in common with him, is that we try to get as many shots off our flint's as possible by knapping them and turning them around, and moving them forward in the jaw...
So, what is the life of a flint? It's what we make it today (in our times), as we mostly don't have the worry's our forefathers had...
The short summation is that we don't have to worry much about stretching our flints (and powder) today, like our ancestors would have had to do,,, so maybe "flint life" is just the times and availability we live in now, and we adjust for that availability like our ancestors did... :shake (Though I do expect they were versed enough in making a usable flint if needed.)
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IMHO, flint lifespan is all about three things - lock geometry, hardness of the hammer steel, quality of the rock.
With a good lock and well hardened frizzen, some rocks will last Many dozens of cycles whilst other rocks barely serve a dozen strikes and they're out.
I find that "fine" flints - that is, the thinner, single edged flints as opposed to the thicker double edged "common" flint types - work best and last longest.
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I had one flint that I managed to finally get 4 shots out of, what I called a "dead" flint. The I had one that kept on shooting without touching it except seating it further and further out of the cock. That flint self knapped - actually had quite a few do that - but kept on sparking. I think I quit counting around 70 shots and kept shooting with it until it was just a flake the cock couldn't hold onto. Average is 25-35 without knapping. I may have to wipe it or even scrape it but don't knapp until it stops shooting. At that point I knapp it and get another 5 to 15 shots. On the second knapp I usually get maybe a few more. I generally retire them around 50-60 shots and save them for plinking where a few dry snaps make no difference. I've used the black, amber and white flints all with great success.
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I find that "fine" flints - that is, the thinner, single edged flints as opposed to the thicker double edged "common" flint types - work best and last longest.
I have found that very same thing, Rob. :bl th up
Hanshi, That sounds reasonable for sure, and a good technique you have for sure.
Normally, when I retire a 3/4 x 7/8 flint that I use in my Large Siler Locks and the Vintage L&R Lock, they become flints (after some knapping and if I can get it right) for use in my smaller L&R John Bailes Lock, as well as the small offshore locks.
In the end, I feel I get my money's worth out of them. :hairy
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Well I finally had to change out my 48 shot flint after it delivered 36 more shots in my L&R Lock, so I got 84 total shots out of this flint - and that ain't bad at all!!! :bl th up
Now one may think I'm done with this flint, but I'm not... It'll get a little reshaping and I'll continue using it in one of my smaller locks, such as the L&R John Bailes, or a Lyman lock... It ain't over 'til it's over... :bl th up