Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Craftsmanship => Traditional Archery and Accoutrements => Topic started by: Fletcher on March 01, 2007, 04:25:06 PM

Title: In Search of Bow Woods
Post by: Fletcher on March 01, 2007, 04:25:06 PM: From the Maple Syrup thread comes the discussion of trading (or finding) bow woods:

There has been quite a bit of interest the last few years in primitive bows, and the materials to make them.

Top of the line and top of the price are Osage Orange and Pacific Yew. Pacific Yew has always been in western North America, Osage was introduced (southeast first I think) but early enough that the natives used it.

Other varieties of wood were used that are not worth mentioning because they do not last long enough to make a good durable bow.

Local woods that are worth looking for are Hickory, White Ash, Red Oak and Black Locust in the eastern states.

There is less to choose from in the western states, like Vine Maple or Ocean Spray. There has been some White Ash planted in the west but conversations have it that it is not the same quality of bow wood as the indigenous from the east.

I am always wanting to try new materials, although I have had great success with hickory. It is durable and makes a better bow that White Ash or Red Oak for about the same price.

I really want to try Black Locust if I can find someone to sell or trade.

A good bow stave is cut from the clear bottom log of a tree from 6" to 8" in diameter. That will yield from 4 to 6 stave pieces. Smaller trees will make bows, but they will tend to be 'wimpier' and more prone to string follow. You know; young and tender - old and tough!!!

A length can be anywhere from 56" to 72" and yield a good bow. Green tree cuts should be bound together and dried in a flat stack for 3 to 4 months or better before working. Some like to dry with bark on and some with bark off. I won't argue either way but I prefer bark off since the log is so much easier to peel!

After 3 to 4 months drying I cut the stave to rough proportions and dry some more. Some bowyers hold out for 2 years or more before working the wood to really cure and seal. Once again I prefer to work it after less than 6 months drying since it is way easier to work. Then I can dry the stave to 80% or 90% in a 'stove pipe dryer' and speed up the process. I won't argue that those who wait longer and work the wood harder don't make a superior product. Their bows often sell from $250 to much higher. By 'cutting some corners' I can keep the cost under $120 or less.

My aim is to get folks shooting without a huge initial cost. They can work up to the spendy if they wish later. I also like to teach bow making and the easier the wood to work, the faster people learn.

Also, if a piece of wood 'blows', and they will, the new bowyer is not as frustrated as when laying out a lot more $$ for the cost of the wood.

ps - Lightseeker or anyone else, got a line on that Black Locust to sell or trade???

Thanks

Fletch
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Post by: LightSeeker on March 01, 2007, 11:18:52 PM: Fletcher,
Why as a matter of fact I do, as my father is a lumber broker and deals with sawmills all day long- he can get special cuts, but because locust is so hard, he may have to ask several mills before we get what we want. Now that IU know what you need, we can probably work something out. So what are the actual dimensions you want? I do think we can get your needs met!
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Post by: Fletcher on March 01, 2007, 11:36:20 PM: Bows can be made from hardwood lumber that is plain sawn. Better bows are made from stave cut logs that allow the bowyer to follow the growth rings. By leaving a full ring on the back of the bow and tapering the wood to the belly, the bow is less likely to split, will retain more energy and is less likely to string follow.

Certain bows like Pacific Yew and Osage also work best when some outer ring (sapwood) is left and the belly is of the heartwood.

I do not know too well the characteristics of the Black Locust.

The secret to making a good bow from lumber is enough thickness in the stock and straightness of the grain cut to be able to shave down to a single growth ring over the entire length.

I will have to read up on Black Locust to find out the growth characteristics.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on March 01, 2007, 11:52:37 PM: Fletcher, sounds like the house is getting close to completion and the shop will finally have some room for you to get back to work!
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Post by: R.M. on March 02, 2007, 12:32:34 AM: Fletch, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not prefered to have your blanks split instead of cut? I'm just going from memory here. I seem to recall this talk a while back about the osage staves.
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Post by: Fletcher on March 02, 2007, 09:29:02 AM: RM - you are right. the preferred bow stave is split from logs into wedges.

For instance a 6" diamter log could be split in half and then in quarters yielding 4 wedge shaped staves about 4 1/2 " at the outside. The split method will generally follow the straightest grain.

An 8" log is split in half, and those in thirds yielding 6 staves about 4" wide.

After peeling and drying the bowyer can further cut or spilt them to desired overall width and then shape according to the method preferred. Most flatbows are made from 2 1/2" to 3" at the widest. "D" shaped longbows may only be about 1" to 1 1/2" wide.

However...

It is possible to make bows from 'board sawn' lumber. It is much faster and far cheaper. When using white woods since as Hickory, White Ash and Red Oak, which are very straight grained trees, the plain sawn cuts will yield decent bow material.

I use these boards to make my 'entry level' bows that can sell for under $100. Making bows by the split stave method will generally produce a bow that is less likely to break or string follow. It takes a lot more time to make one by this method, so the cost of the bow goes up.

I have had good reliability in my Hickory bows. My wood source knows just how to pick good grain that follows straight through the entire piece.

I have picked my own at hardwood stores a few times, You can make a bow out of a piece of wood that is true 1" x 3" and 6' long. However, I bet less than 1 in 20 pieces of wood available there will have the cross grain and long grain that I want so you need to know what to look for.

My early tries proved that if the grain 'runs out' of the overall length, the probability that it will 'blow up' drastically increases.

Hope this helps and more folk will try it , it is great fun and satisfying to make something by hand that works!
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Post by: Riley/MN on March 02, 2007, 10:58:11 AM: Fletch,

Any thoughts on ironwood?
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Post by: Fletcher on March 02, 2007, 11:43:22 AM: I have used it to make some pistol grips and a few have used it for bow riser/shelf portions. It can have beautiful grain and color. It can crumble when to try to cut curves on it.

As far as the limbs go it is about as flexible as a brick and as easy to cut!!!
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Post by: Fletcher on December 09, 2008, 11:42:55 AM: This thread had some dust on it, but I am still looking for that stave of Blacl Locust to try.

Anyone out there know of a source near you?
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Post by: jbullard1 on December 09, 2008, 02:02:56 PM: PM sent
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Post by: Buffler Razz on December 09, 2008, 06:09:08 PM: Fletcher
If your dealings with jb1 don't work out send me a PM. I don't want to step on his toes.
Razz
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Post by: jbullard1 on December 09, 2008, 06:21:39 PM: Quote from: "Buffler Razz"
Fletcher
If your dealings with jb1 don't work out send me a PM. I don't want to step on his toes.
Razz

Buffler
You aren't going to step on my toes, mine may not be bow quality
Go ahead and show Fletcher what you got

Jerry
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Post by: Indiana on December 09, 2008, 06:45:50 PM: Fletch Im sending you a pm...
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Post by: Buffler Razz on December 09, 2008, 06:47:49 PM: Ok Jerry, thanks. I've seen pictures of the bobcat that tangled with you and lost. I'm not lookin to have my hide being your next hat.
Here is what I have. I did some horse trading a while ago and have a piece of black locust that was rough profiled for a bow. It was taken to one ring, but I would say to take one or 2 more off. It is 66" long, 1 3/4" wide and about 1" thick thru the limbs. The handle area is much thicker. It was sealed with shellac. There is a slight bit of twist to one limb, but certainly appears that it would come out with a heat gun and form. If you think you are interested I can take a bunch of pictures and either email them or post them on photobucket. Just let me know.

Razz
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Post by: Fletcher on December 09, 2008, 06:49:30 PM: PM sent to BR waiting one from Indy
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Post by: Indiana on December 09, 2008, 06:49:46 PM: Make that an email.
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Post by: Fletcher on December 09, 2008, 06:56:38 PM: Oh by the way my son has just finished carving out the first limb of a 'takedown' Pacific Yew bow. I got the 2 piece metal handle a few years ago and from left over Yew we got from Beaverman we are shaping two billets (1/2 a bow hunks)

He has done a great job so far. He also is good with a digital camera so I may try again to get them dadburn pics to go on the TMA site

Iffen not I will email them to Beav and he can post here fer me. He ain't that busy as he says he is har! har!
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Post by: Fletcher on December 09, 2008, 10:24:17 PM: Buff Razz - those are good photos of a great end grain. The bow roughout looks like a great place to work from. I will take it and I am also working a deal with Indiana.

A guy just can't have TOO much good wood!

PM's sent
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Post by: Buffler Razz on December 09, 2008, 10:32:06 PM: Fletcher,
Shoot me your address in a PM and I'll get it packed up and sent off to you.
Razz
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Post by: rich pierce on December 15, 2008, 03:50:56 PM: I like black locust and have made 4 bows from it so far and have a couple more staves in the works. Like osage, there's the work of removing the sapwood and it's just as hard to find a straight knot-free stave. But like hickory it is highly resistant to breaking and it holds up better in moist environments.
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Post by: Fletcher on December 16, 2008, 05:37:43 PM: Just talked to my wife. She was busy shopping downtown and the temp is 6 below 0. She picked up a packge at the post office since we got a note from the postman 'would not fit mail box'

She said it looked like a bow box!

Can't wait to get home - tis from Buffler Razz I would spect!
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Post by: jbullard1 on December 16, 2008, 06:59:41 PM: Fletcher
I just discovered today that the Black Locust I have is of no use to me. Since it has dried for 18 months I can't do anything with it, 50 grit just smokes on it on the belt grinder. Hard like a rock!!

I will take some pictures and send them to you and if you can use it we can try and work out a deal

Jerry
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Post by: Fletcher on December 17, 2008, 10:33:23 AM: Sho nuff the big long box was the Black Locust roughed out bow from BuFF RAzz. The wood looks great and should not take much to finish down. (the nicks you pointed out with the blue tape will dissappear when I trim the limb)

I suspect about a month yet since I have a bunch to finish before the trade show. I will work out some trade stock for Buff Razz and git that right out.

Jbullard - I am game for trade - I like the look of this wood. Dry is OK but knots and cracks are bad juju for bows. Make sure there is a bow in there or I would just have to turn it into hawk handles. Which does work OK. I do that with left over hickory and osage. Have not tried left over Pacific Yew for that yet.