The Tubelock

[Feltwad]

Did the  tubelock  type of  muzzle loading ignition ever become popular in the the States ?
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[mario]

I guess not. Mostly because I have no idea what you're talking about.  

Mario

[BEAVERMAN]

I guess not. Mostly because I have no idea what you're talking about.  

Mario

Same here!, I'll bite,what the he77 is a tube lock?

[biliff]

Out of pure curiosity I spent some time googling. This is the best picture w/description I could find. Sounds kind of cumberson and to answer the original question, it appears to be strictly a European thing (but apparently invented by an American. Go figure.)


http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?printable=Y&productid=601

[mario]

Found this: http://www.washingtonbluerifles.com/bilbylorenz.htm

Lorenz guns may well have gained a bad reputation from their association with older .71 caliber Austrian “Consol” or tube-lock muskets, which were conversions from flintlock. These guns, some of which were rifled, others not, were converted by a method devised by Giuseppe Consol of Milan. The Consol/Augustin system replaced the flintlock pan and frizzen with a two-piece priming chamber and installed a new hammer.

After muzzle loading the main charge in the usual manner, the Consol/Augustin was primed by bringing the hammer to half cock, lifting the top section of the priming chamber, which replaced the frizzen, inserting a small priming tube filled with percussion powder into a groove in the bottom section, which replaced the pan, then closing the chamber. The gun could then be brought to full cock and fired. The hammer hit a firing pin device in the chamber which, in turn, exploded the percussion tube and ignited the main charge. A number of these guns were converted to the standard percussion system before or after importation, but others, especially in the earliest days of the war, were placed directly in the hands of troops with their peculiar priming system intact.

While Austrian guns were imported during the ACW, I don't think this was one of the.

Mario

[R.M.]

While Austrian guns were imported during the ACW, I don't think this was one of the.
Mario

I have an 1860 Austrian Lorenz that has "Ohio" stamped in the top of the wrist, and supposedly it was used in the ACW. It is much like any other percussion musket that was used then, other than it being .54 caliber.

[Uncle Russ]

Out of pure curiosity I spent some time googling. This is the best picture w/description I could find. Sounds kind of cumberson and to answer the original question, it appears to be strictly a European thing (but apparently invented by an American. Go figure.)


http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?printable=Y&productid=601

Thanks, Bill
I thought this part was rather ingenious;

"The system used an encapsulated copper primer with two hollow wire leads that extended from either side of the central casing. These leads formed a flash channel that communicated the ignition charge directly to the powder charge. One lead was inserted into the flash channel of the pan and the other stuck out of the opposite side of the pan. Closing the pan cover crimped off the lead on the non-ignition side, making sure that all of the priming force entered the main flash channel to ignite the primer charge. Once the pan was closed, a firing pin in the top of the pan rested upon the priming “pill” and the fall of the hammer forced the firing pin into the “pill”, igniting it".

A very early version of an in-line, as we know them today.

It seems Joe Bilby came up with some numbers for the CW and the Lorenz..."Yankee and Rebel buyers eagerly snapped up Lorenz-style rifle-muskets; the Union recorded purchases of 226, 924 and the Confederacy bought as many as 100,000.....making it the second most popular behind the Enfield"

With that many in circulation at the time, it would appear they would be more popular today.
One reason may well be, as Mario said, in that link we find...."Major General John C. Fremont purchased 25,000 tube-lock muskets in his desperate search for weapons in 1861 and at least 3,000 Delvigne chambered Austrian “Garibaldi” rifles were issued to Minnesota troops. The men of the 26th Illinois embarked on their military careers in September, 1861 armed with “hickory clubs,” and were then issued “old English Tower” muskets, which they later exchanged for “old Austrian fuse primer [guns] altered and rifled. By the end of the year an inspector classified the tubelock Consol/Augustin weapons as “nearly all…unfit for use.”.

Thanks to Bill and Mario for their information... :shock:

Sooo much to learn, sooo little time!


Uncle Russ...

[Feltwad]

The tubelock is credited to the famous English gun maker Joseph Manton who was the gun maker to the well known sportsman Col Peter Hawker ,if you read volume 1 and 2 of his diaries  he mentions both Joseph Manton and  Alfred Clayton has gunmakers  both made Tube lock guns
The tubelock was prior to the percussion cap and dates from 1810 ,the lock parts were has follows ,the hammer instead of a nose was fitted with shield and what is known has a spade {see image} ,some of the large bore fowling guns  hammers were fitted with a shield on the side ,this was to prevent the tube from blowing out when ignited . The barrel instead of a pan had  what is known has a anvil on this was placed the tube which was a hollow piece of copper sealed at one end ,filled with a fultimate compound and inserted into a touch hole.When the hammer struck the tube it ignited the fultimate which fired into the touch hole and ignited the main charge, ignition is just has quick has the percussion cap
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[Swamp]

Wow, very cool indeed! I never knew such a thing existed!

Boy, in that last photo, that gun sure looks like it has a LARGE bore!  

[Feltwad]

Wow, very cool indeed! I never knew such a thing existed!

Boy, in that last photo, that gun sure looks like it has a LARGE bore!  

Swamp.

Both are 6 bore,the Cox pigeon gun has a special forend with a pistol grip
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not sercure a chicken house door

[Loyalist Dave]

A very early version of an in-line, as we know them today.  

No, an early version of what evolved into the Caplock.  The ingnition still enters at  90º to the chamber as does a flintlock and the later caplock.

LD

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Learn somthing new every day. I was aware of the tubelock and its variations , but had never realized this type of ignition was actually used in the numbers mentioned for CW troops. Also was not aware of the Wilkinson type projectile. You don,t suppose that Hornady may have incoroerated some of its aspects into their Great plains projectile? Thanks to all who posted information.

 

[Feltwad]

You do not see many tubelocks come up for sale because they are rare .Looking through the main sale of Holts cataloque in London on the 15th December I noticed they have two in the auction see  http://www.holtsauctioneers.com  you will need a friendly bank manager for a loan.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[Feltwad]

The rare tubelock guns in Holts auction for the 15th December .
Lot 521 which was a 4 bore live pigeon gun a s/b by Lancaster sold for £7000 sterling
Lot 523 which was a 4 bore s/b fowling piece alos by Lancaster cased with accessiors sold for £22000 sterling{34.461.15 USD}.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[Riley/MN]

That is a good chunk o' change right there!