Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: SharpStick on May 19, 2018, 08:43:02 PM
-
When I first got my firestick the only powder I could readily find was Pyrodex RS. Later I found some Goex FFG. I've just used up my pound of Pyrodex and started using the Goex. Thought I'd better start searching for more before it becomes an "emergency".
Bass Pro is where I found the Goex previously, but they are kinda far away. I discovered Sportsman's Warehouse carries Pyrodex, but not Goex.
At SW today I discovered another brand I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere - Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder. Only $9.99 for 1 lb.
Anyone know about this stuff? Is it good? Here's a link: https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Alliant-Black-MZ-Muzzleloader-Powder/productDetail/Powder-and-Primers/prod99999030268/cat100011 (https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Alliant-Black-MZ-Muzzleloader-Powder/productDetail/Powder-and-Primers/prod99999030268/cat100011)
At the risk of starting a religious war, I'll ask, what types of black powder do y'all use or recommend?
Forgive me if this topic has been exhaustingly covered elsewhere in the forum and point me to it.
SS
-
SS, I think this is a very fair question.
Many of our folks can't get real black powder locally, and just don't have enough interested shooters locally to share the larger Mail Orders, where a definite savings can be found, so they are mostly using BP Substitutes.
The Powder you mentioned is a BP Substitute, but their Marketing verbiage might lead one to believe that this BP Replacement is indeed a modern miracle. ie
"Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder -Moisture resistant and virtually non-corrosive, Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".
That sounds pretty good....In fact, that sounds like the very same thing every BP Replacement made yet all strive for.
However, if you take time to read the reviews you might find that everyone did not share that same opinion with Alliant.
Still yet, the majority did seem to like it, and I strongly suspect that is a good thing, at least for those who don't have access to the real thing.
I strongly suspect that the listed price per pound will give this product considerable exposure, and exposure is what every good BP Replacement needs, it helps to separate the wheat from the chafe, if ya get my drift..
Uncle Russ...
-
Kind of hard to beat that price for a substitute powder, and since you're shooting a caplock there's no reason not to try it.
Myself, I'll stick with my Goex from Powder Inc., but that's a personal choice (mainly because that's all I've used for over 40 years) and I also shoot flintlock ML's... Substitute black-powder is not friendly to flintlock ignition.
If you try it, let us know what you think. :shake
-
Goex or Swiss. I use Goex, but I have heard many speak on the virtues of Swiss. I would avoid Elephant powder, as it is dirrty stuff. :P
-
First black powder experience was Summer, 1964. Since then it has been either Dupont or GOEX.
Off and on I have tried Pyrodex, 777, Wano, Swiss, Elephant, etc., etc. Strangely enough, I always come back to GOEX. I think that might say something.
Back in the late '90's, I did a lot of chronograph testing with different grades of different powders using a variety of my big bore rifles. I think I got the best results velocity wise from Swiss, but I did not feel that the increase in ball speed was worth the increased price. Not unexpected was the increase in velocity between Fg and Ffg. The amazing thing to me was that the premium Pyrodex powder (cannot recall its name) showed higher velocity than Ffg did.
I believe some of the providers will ship powder in 5 pound shipments which should be doable for most anyone interested in shooting. I believe you can mix granulations (and maybe brands) as well.
Happy shooting !!!
John
-
Pyrodex has been known to corrode bp barrels very quickly. I know of several accomplished shooters that will not touch the stuff.
I used to use pyrodex in my civil war percussion guns and never had a corrosion problem but I always cleaned my guns quickly and regularly.
Of course for flintlocks, pyrodex and other subs for that matter, do not work very well because their ignition temp is just too high, and you will get misfires and/or poor ignition. Just about any real black powder will work better than pyrodex in a flintlock. I use Goex, Swiss, Schutzen-- because that is what I have been able to purchase locally here in central California.
K
-
Ken,
Where are you picking up your powder?
Only place I can think of that might carry it in Fresburg would be Herb Bauer's.
Some place else?
What is a pound of GOEX Ffg go for these days here in the liberal state of LaLaLand?
John
-
Pyrodex has been known to corrode bp barrels very quickly. I know of several accomplished shooters that will not touch the stuff.
I used to use pyrodex in my civil war percussion guns and never had a corrosion problem but I always cleaned my guns quickly and regularly.
Of course for flintlocks, pyrodex and other subs for that matter, do not work very well because their ignition temp is just too high, and you will get misfires and/or poor ignition. Just about any real black powder will work better than pyrodex in a flintlock. I use Goex, Swiss, Schutzen-- because that is what I have been able to purchase locally here in central California.
K
I agree 100% with you AxelP,.... that's why I got a silent chuckle out of Alliant's propaganda that states "Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder -Moisture resistant and virtually non-corrosive, Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".
In fact,.... I doubt the fake powder even has less "cleaning hassles" than real black powder.
I know for a fact,... that Pyrodex requires every bit as much effort in cleaning as Goex, or it'll ruin a barrel pretty quick. :bl th up
-
Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".
I am thinking they are confusing ignition headaches with Pyrodex and not black powder. Even with musket cap ignition I used to get delayed ignition with Pyrodex. Wonder if their copywriter has ever shot black powder before?
-
Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".
I am thinking they are confusing ignition headaches with Pyrodex and not black powder. Even with musket cap ignition I used to get delayed ignition with Pyrodex. Wonder if their copywriter has ever shot black powder before?
Sure doesn't sound like they have, does it. :laffing
-
I too need black powder. I am looking at buying Wano brand $15.99 a pound, i need 25 pounds. Just how good is it, i need 1f , 2f and 3f.
-
From my testing of WANO years ago, I was not terribly impressed.
There is a possibility that they have improved it, but I do not know for sure.
I tested Fg, Ffg and Fffg in 8 bore, 12 bore and 20 bore rifles and a .54 cal rifle as well using heavy charges. I honestly do not remember details, but it seems that velocity on all grades was significantly less than with GOEX. Like in the 100 to 200 FPS range. On the 8 bore I was using 250 to 300 grains of Fg and Ffg. The 12 and 20 bore rifles were tested with maybe 130 to 200 grains and the .54 was maybe 60 - 110 grains.
I also recall that it seemed to burn dirtier than the other powders.
On the good side, the cans of powder that I got were round with a funnel like top which meant that all the powder in the can would pour out, instead of the flat face like on GOEX which retained the last little bit of powder.
Depending on what you will be using it for, the above might or might not matter but it would be a good idea to verify where your point of impact is with the WANO - it could be different than with other powders.
John
-
Going to be using most of my powder in my cannons and mortar, my stick with Goex 1f as the mortar likes it, my 2 cannons will burn any
powder BP or pyrodex, on volume for volume.
-
Bigsmoke, I used to buy it at Herb Bauers in Fresno but alas, they have closed their doors... The last time I bought some was an online "group buy" thru a local club. That was a few years ago.
K
-
WHAT?
Herb Bauer's has closed?
Rats, that is too bad. What a surprise. I thought they had a pretty good lock on everything sporting, albeit a bit high priced, they pretty much had what you wanted. Any idea why they closed?
Quick side story. Way back when, I went in there looking for a black powder rifle. I saw a Renegade and came home and "mentioned" that I had seen a rifle that would make a good birthday present for me. Ms. Smoke, being the dutiful wife she is, heard the hint and followed through. The day after my birthday I went down there to equip myself with stuff I would need to shoot the rifle. The T/C starter kit contained 20 maxi balls, a jar of Maxi Lube, a short starter, a powder measure and a nipple wrench. That, a can of caps and a pound of powder and I was ready to make some smoke.
Well, 20 maxi balls do not last long enough to really have a lot of fun, so the following week, I went back again to pick up some more bullets. However, they did not sell bullets by themselves, had to buy the whole kit. And of course, they did not sell .530 round ball or patches. So, I ordered a .530 R/B mold and some patches from Dixie. Went to Fresno Ag and bought 5 pounds of plumber's lead and a lead pot and started casting round ball. About that same time, a good friend had gotten the same rifle from Herb's and we started casting together. One thing came to another and we decided that if no one in Fresno sold R/B, the market was there to start casting commercially. We were so naive. Anyway, we went through the formalities, got a sales tax number, published fictitious name statement, etc. We were off to the big times now. It so happened that the State Shoot was coming up soon, so we started casting something serious to stock up for all the anticipated sales we would have. Went to the bank and got a $500 loan and went down to Tulare to a distributor there and stocked up on $500 worth of accessories (even then it wasn't really a lot). And that was the start of Smoke and Thunder Gun Supply. In 1977, Mrs. Smoke and I moved to Idaho and took half the inventory with us and that eventually turned into October Country. Friend Shannon continues to run Smoke and Thunder to this day. Incidentally, we cast all the popular sizes, but as soon as we saw that Speer was making R/B, we retired the moulds and started stocking Speer, then Hornady.
All thanks to Herb Bauer not having any round balls. And now he is gone and S & T lives on. That must say something, but I am not sure what.
Now you know the rest of the story.
John
-
Darn John...great story. Funny how things can be intertwined like this :bl th up
Al
-
Goex is all I'll ever use. I've got a old can of Pyrodex that I bought years ago before the plant blew up. I tried Swiss and didn't like it.
Goex has gone to plastic now, no more tin cans.
I've got a Black Powder shop 15 minutes away so I guess you could say I'm lucky. :pray:
-
I recently tried Graf's proprietary label, which is rebranded Schuetzen powder. It's a few bucks cheaper than Goex, and it is cleaner burning. It *may* be a bit hotter than Goex. I liked it enough that I bought 10 lbs. of the stuff a few weeks ago.
-
Bigsmoke, They basically just retired. Got tired of fighting the fight against the big names? I think they actually sold the building to another sporting goods outfit and they are supposed to re-open under a different name some day in the future. I bought my first black powder gun from Herb Bauers back in the late 70s. (I was in High School at the time). Remember the huge blackpowder department they used to have? I could go in there and just gawk for hours. Did you know Vern Johnson? I think he used to be the black powder sales guy back then and was a Civil War Colonel in the local reenacting group I got involved with. I hung out with his son at events. ah the old days.
-
Yeah Ken, that is pretty much what I gleaned from the stories in the Bee. Guess there was no one else in the family that was interested. Shucks, they never asked me...
Nope, cannot say that I knew Vern Johnson. The only one who I can think of that I knew by name was John McCormick. I believe he left there in the 1980's or possibly the 1990's and opened his own store on N. Blackstone, somewhere. I think I bought some .45 ACP or .45 LC from him one time or another.
Strangely enough, for years I lusted after a Springfield musket but never got one. I think that saved me from getting involved in Civil War reenactment. I was having enough fun doing the mountain man thing. Actually, if I would have gotten into CW stuff, I would have probably gone the route of being a sutler instead of a soldier.
-
OK, back to the original topic ;)
I got me some of that Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder and tried it this week. I like it.
I could not detect any difference in the performance, i.e., I didn't shoot any better or worse, no failures to ignite, no noticeable delay in firing, from the Pyrodex and Goex and I had used previously. On the plus side it is much, much, cleaner than Goex and much cleaner than Pyrodex.
I usually shoot about 20 times when I get to the range. By the end, with the Pyrodex, I start to feel the difficulty of ramming a ball down the barrel increase. Using the Goex, within 3 or 4 shots, it becomes increasingly more difficult. After 20 shots with Alliant the last went down almost as smooth as the first one.
I did notice with the Alliant I had to make sure the powder all came out of my measure, Didn't need that with Pyrodex or Goex. Alliant seems to clump up a little; not sure why.
Cleaning my rifle really showed the difference. I attach some tubing to a nipple, clamp the tubing, then fill the barrel with warm water. With Pyrodex and Goex when I release the clamp after 5 minutes there is a surge of very cloudy black water as the barrel drains into my catch container. The water is cloudy with black such that I can't see through the container. With Alliant that cloud is almost non-existant, only a slight light brown, nowhere near the amount of "soot" as from the others. I can still see through the container with ease. The remaining cleanup went about the same as usual, maybe a little less work with the Alliant.
Now I've got 2 lbs of Goex and 2 lbs of Alliant. The testing will continue, but for now, Alliant is the leader for me and my cap gun. Between, the cost, $10/lb, and being cleaner, Goex and Pyrodex will have to get me much improved performance to win out.
-
Thanks for the report SharpStick... :bl th up
I wonder if this new powder has less graphite in it (I believe it's graphite they put in BP to prevent clumping)? If so, that may account for the clumping and (on the good side) the number of shots one is able to take without swabbing?
If you get a chance and have a flintlock or know someone who does, perhaps you or they could test it for pan prime ignition. :shake
-
Here's a link to Alliant's description of Black MZ: http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/blackmz.aspx Notice that while they say Black MZ can be used in all BP firearms, they do not say it has been successfully used in flintlocks. Moreover, their best results were achieved with 90gr. (volume) with ~240gr. bullets in a .50cal. rifle. That means conicals, fast twists, and most likely something other than FFFFg pan ignition. If it was available locally, I'd be tempted to try it in my cap locks, but not in my flintlocks.
-
I agree with you Maven. I'd just like to know if it would ignite powder in the pan. If it did, it probably would ignite a charge. However, I think we're looking at a BP replacement powder for caplocks.
-
Well, at least with Black MZ you only have to contend with plastic/vinyl sabot fouling rather than powder residue and sabot particles on top of that since the bullet weights specified are likely the kind used with sabots.
-
An update on Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder:
Over the previous 2 months I've shot almost 2 lbs of this stuff and I still like it for my cap gun. I continued shooting around 20 balls each week at the range with no increase in the loading difficulty. After a while I began to wonder how much I could shoot before I'd notice a difference. I shot 60+ balls on 3 outings in a 1 week period without cleaning the barrel. Number 60 went down as easy as #1. As for effect on accuracy just look at my score on Mike Fink ;D, though I still can't get those silly chickens to hold still long enough to catch a ball or two :P
That's all I have to say for now, gotta go figure out what to do with 2 lbs of Goex and there's a rifle needs cleanin'.
-
An update on Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder:
Over the previous 2 months I've shot almost 2 lbs of this stuff and I still like it for my cap gun. I continued shooting around 20 balls each week at the range with no increase in the loading difficulty. After a while I began to wonder how much I could shoot before I'd notice a difference. I shot 60+ balls on 3 outings in a 1 week period without cleaning the barrel. Number 60 went down as easy as #1. As for effect on accuracy just look at my score on Mike Fink ;D, though I still can't get those silly chickens to hold still long enough to catch a ball or two :P
That's all I have to say for now, gotta go figure out what to do with 2 lbs of Goex and there's a rifle needs cleanin'.
Just tuck those 2 lbs. of Goex back in a dry/cool corner somewheres,.... anyone that finds it in'a 100-200 years'er so, will be happy to feed it to their flintlocks. :bl th up
-
Thanks for the report SharpStick... :bl th up
I wonder if this new powder has less graphite in it (I believe it's graphite they put in BP to prevent clumping)? If so, that may account for the clumping and (on the good side) the number of shots one is able to take without swabbing?
If you get a chance and have a flintlock or know someone who does, perhaps you or they could test it for pan prime ignition. :shake
I'd sure be interested in how well the stuff ignites in a flintlock. :hairy
-
An update on Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder:
Over the previous 2 months I've shot almost 2 lbs of this stuff and I still like it for my cap gun. I continued shooting around 20 balls each week at the range with no increase in the loading difficulty. After a while I began to wonder how much I could shoot before I'd notice a difference. I shot 60+ balls on 3 outings in a 1 week period without cleaning the barrel. Number 60 went down as easy as #1. As for effect on accuracy just look at my score on Mike Fink ;D, though I still can't get those silly chickens to hold still long enough to catch a ball or two :P
That's all I have to say for now, gotta go figure out what to do with 2 lbs of Goex and there's a rifle needs cleanin'.
SharpStick, I find 60 shots without wiping to be absolutely remarkable.
If the ignition was fast, and you liked the accuracy, I think you've found yourself a winner.
If I didn't already have so much powder, I'd be tempted to buy some and try it.
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
-
Several powders (black) have powered my guns over the years but never any of the subs. So all I can comment on is Pyrodex which I tested in a c&b revolver and a .45 Colt cartridge revolver. It was a disappointment so I never tried it again. For the past decade al I've used has been Goex and Jack's Battle Powder (Goex product). Initially, JBP was much cheaper than Goex but the price has risen steadily. JBP is still a pretty good deal and I like it a lot. Been thinking about trying KiK and it seems to be a bit cheaper than Goex. Anyone been using KiK?
-
it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to use a smokeless substitute powder in their traditional muzzleloader.
so firstly, it MUST be real black powder ... or what was called "gunpowder" back before the turn of the 20th century.
can't find any real black powder locally? that's true for the vast majority of us and why we MUST mail order out our black powder. yes, there are shipping and hazmat fees to contend with, but there are viable ways around that and that means buying in quantity for yerself or joining in on a group quantity buy, which typically requires buying in cases of 25 pounds. powder don't last long, and in today's whacky society of politics and media, buying black powder in ANY manner may soon be jeopardized and then we'd be relegated to making our own. not a good thought, eh?
having used black powder brands from curtis & harvey's to swiss, and all the goex, kik, wano, battle, etc, in between, i'll take swiss. it IS the premier black powder for a reason - consistency. yep, costs about $5 per pound more, but for me the results are well worth shelling out the extra buckeroos. swiss black powder burns cleaner, more reliably and is inherently more potent than almost all other powders. the challenger to swiss is olde eynesford (by goex) and it's a pretty good powder indeed!
i use swiss 3f exclusively for trad muzzleloaders, from .32 rifles to .62 smoothbores. it's used both down the tube and in the flintlock pan. one powder, one horn, works great.
-
When I started this discussion I said,
At the risk of starting a religious war, I'll ask, what types of black powder do y'all use or recommend?
Are we there yet?
As I ponder it I discover that I do agree with RobD that traditional muzzleloaders ought to be shot with real black powder. However, I think we all bow in varying degrees to convenience. How many of us make our own black powder and live with the quality we'd get? (See the recent comments regarding blowing down the barrel on http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=22865.msg214640#msg214640 (http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=22865.msg214640#msg214640)).
The level of convenience I allow myself has to do more with where I am in my learning and development as a traditional muzzleloader shooter. Early on I was mostly interested in learning about my rifle, how it operates, what I can expect from it, how to keep it clean, and, especially, how to shoot safely, including developing muscle-memory of the loading and firing sequence.
I started with a percussion cap rifle for a similar reason - to reduce the number of factors I had to deal with as I learned the rudiments of traditional muzzleloaders.
Currently I am trying to relearn the skill of iron sight, off-hand shooting and it's become a matter of how many shots I can take in the one hour a week of range time I have available. The Alliant substitute is a convenience I'll take for that ... for now.
I say, for now, because sooner or later I expect the traditional bug will take hold more and more, and I'll move on to shooting real black powder - maybe when I give in and get my first flintlock (I'd love to shoot one of those beautiful Pennsylvania or Kentucky long rifles). And, maybe someday I'll even try making some powder of my own.
Guess I'm saying the path to being a pure traditionalist takes time and lots of learning. I'm very thankful for the tremendous knowledge and encouragement that is shared here - just give a tenderfoot a chance to catch up.
-
there are Many shades of interests in most things in life and trad muzzleloaders are no exception.
there are more than a few reasons for an interest in this sport, and that interest typically dictates where and how one will start. some jump right in - lock, stock and barrel - whilst others dip a toe here and there. it's all good, one way or t'other.
the principle reason for starting immediately with real black powder is that it is the powder that was meant for these 19th and earlier century gun designs, is an explosive and yet typically generates much less pressure than bp subs and smokeless powders. bp is a mix charcoal, sulfur and potassium nitrate. it is NOT an efficient gunpowder, but it IS a sensitive explosive that is almost a requirement for flintlock ignition where bp subs are quite inferior. it will typically be less corrosive than bp subs and easier to administer for fouling control and clean up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV1KO2Uj3y8
the original king of bp subs is pyrodex, which is a mix of three essential ingredients that contains potassium perchlorate in addition to charcoal, sulfur and potassium nittrate, and other ingredients that are proprietary secrets. all the other bp subs contain NO sulfur or potassium nitrate and are wholly synthetic by nature. these bp subs work mostly via expanding gas rather than as an explosive, and they contain added ignition ingredients. ALL bp subs are classified by the DOT as "smokeless". some of these bp subs produce much higher pressures than real black powder.
*ALL* brands of real black powder are made with just those three ingredients - charcoal, sulfur and potassium nitrate. the essential differences between different brands is the type of charcoal used, the purity of the sulfur and potassium nitrate, and the proportions used in their mixing. this has nothing to do with granulation size, which is a selection based mostly on caliber and function.
*ALL* brands of bp subs are totally different in their characteristics of chemical composition, loading, shooting, fouling control, and clean up. if you change brands and "models" of bp subs, there may be changes required to the load and subsequent performance.
as to making black powder, you really Really REALLY need to know exactly what yer doing, for critical safety reasons. and even then, what you've cooked up will more than likely be inferior to any commercial bp, and will cost a bunch of money and time. just buy the stuff, it's safer.
moving on to a flinter will bring up serious ignition problems that will only be solved with real black powder. i've already posted about how best to acquire the holy black.
getting yer feet wet in trad ml's with a caplock is a good thing because as mentioned it will be easier than a flinter for many logical reasons. it's actually much closer to the early metallic cartridge single shot rifles.
if you are unaware of the following, i would be remiss for not mentioning it. the only other consideration to be aware of with trad muzzleloaders is what guns are offered offshore and onshore. almost all offshore trad ml's will have a "patent chamber" - this is an ante-chamber before the actual chamber that holds the patched ball. when powder goes down the tube, it will first fill up the ante-chamber with between 15 and 30 volumetric grains. let's say we're loading a .50 GPR caplock rifle. a base charge will be about 50 grains of whatever powder, real bp or sub. 30 grains goes into the ante-chamber and 20 grains spills out into the real chamber. the patched ball is seated. a cap is on the nipple, you drop the hammer and the gun goes off. good. the entire barrel is coated with fouling residue, from the ante-chamber to the muzzle. there are more than a few factors that will dictate whether fouling control is or is not required.
IF you immediately load up again, the poured powder goes down into a dirty barrel, and as the patched ball goes to seat on the powder charge, it will scrape some of the fouling crud onto the powder as well. so here's the point of all this - there will come a time, perhaps after a few shots or a dozen shots or even after every shot, that fouling control must be administered. so, down the tube goes a patch (that might be saliva or water or oil or whatever moistened) over a bore sized jag, which can't enter the ante-chamber but will push the crud into it, which will probably not be a good thing for ignition (cap or flint). therefore, out comes a .32 or .36 brush that's draped with a moistened patch (that was swapped for the jag), and it gets into the ante-chamber and swabs it out. there *might* also be a need for dry brush and jag patches, too.
another consideration is that since there can be no airspace between patched ball and powder, if your offshore gun's ante-chamber holds 30 grains of powder, it would mean that no less than a safe 35 grains be the minimum charge for that gun. charging less would probably barely fill the ante-chamber and create that powder/patched ball space.
almost all onshore built guns, rifles and smoothbores, employ classic, traditional flat breech plugs and no ante-chamber. there will be no added fouling control or cleaning required for an onshore gun.
(https://i.imgur.com/9sfZYSM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hQv38Kw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ejeM8AD.png)
-
When I started this discussion I said,
At the risk of starting a religious war, I'll ask, what types of black powder do y'all use or recommend?
Are we there yet?
As I ponder it I discover that I do agree with RobD that traditional muzzleloaders ought to be shot with real black powder. However, I think we all bow in varying degrees to convenience. How many of us make our own black powder and live with the quality we'd get? (See the recent comments regarding blowing down the barrel on http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=22865.msg214640#msg214640 (http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=22865.msg214640#msg214640)).
The level of convenience I allow myself has to do more with where I am in my learning and development as a traditional muzzleloader shooter. Early on I was mostly interested in learning about my rifle, how it operates, what I can expect from it, how to keep it clean, and, especially, how to shoot safely, including developing muscle-memory of the loading and firing sequence.
I started with a percussion cap rifle for a similar reason - to reduce the number of factors I had to deal with as I learned the rudiments of traditional muzzleloaders.
Currently I am trying to relearn the skill of iron sight, off-hand shooting and it's become a matter of how many shots I can take in the one hour a week of range time I have available. The Alliant substitute is a convenience I'll take for that ... for now.
I say, for now, because sooner or later I expect the traditional bug will take hold more and more, and I'll move on to shooting real black powder - maybe when I give in and get my first flintlock (I'd love to shoot one of those beautiful Pennsylvania or Kentucky long rifles). And, maybe someday I'll even try making some powder of my own.
Guess I'm saying the path to being a pure traditionalist takes time and lots of learning. I'm very thankful for the tremendous knowledge and encouragement that is shared here - just give a tenderfoot a chance to catch up.
To address your original question, I've used regular Goex black powder for many years and just switched to Goex's cleaner burning Olde Eynesford exactly 1 year ago (in all honesty I'd still be happy if I could only get one type, or the other). :bl th up
-
Great reminder on the antechamber, Rob. A word of caution though that the Thompson-Center guns, which were made in USA, also have the antechamber. I say "were" since they now make plastic stocked in-line wonders so I'm talking about second hand pieces.
~Kees~