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Author Topic: Tell me about my rifle?  (Read 1916 times)

Offline Hanshi

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2014, 03:15:16 PM »
Detached, years ago I had a flint SMR built in .36.  It's iron mounted (side plate, toe plate, nose cap and entry thimble), very plain and arguably a "poor boy".  I like the architecture and the way it shoulders and carries.  I like the style.  

Currently, I'm having a Tn rifle built in .32.  A poor boy?  Definitely.  After asking lots of questions about early Appalachian rifles and being assured it would be authentic or at least close to HC/PC (actually not an issue for me), it has brass mountings, a toe plate and swamped barrel.  So I can completely understand and connect with the main goal of having something that "fits" one's desires at the expense of taking liberties with authenticity.  The swamped barrel apparently being a carry over for the earlier builds even though modern T&F tubes have generally more T&F than the originals.

Many of the "backwoods" builders were trained in the east and were familiar with the Pen styles.  But sometimes materials were recycled or were in short supply and most folks were quite light-in-the-wallet.  The guns were arguably built not for style but for providing a quality arm for the common man.  Also it seems to be more difficult to ascribe particular SMR to particular builders.  Might be wrong but I see a lot more generic qualities here than in Pennsylvania rifles.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 08:30:01 AM »
Quote from: "Hanshi"
Currently, I'm having a Tn rifle built in .32.  A poor boy?  Definitely.  After asking lots of questions about early Appalachian rifles and being assured it would be authentic or at least close to HC/PC (actually not an issue for me), it has brass mountings, a toe plate and swamped barrel.  So I can completely understand and connect with the main goal of having something that "fits" one's desires at the expense of taking liberties with authenticity.  The swamped barrel apparently being a carry over for the earlier builds even though modern T&F tubes have generally more T&F than the originals.

This is the same camp I'm in. Mario stated it best when he said my relative wouldn't be the one shooting it, so make sure to get something that I'll be happy with.

Reading my first post, I am looking for something that emulates what my relative might have used. I am not a reenactor. I am not concerned with someone dissing me or the gun because of some detail added or deleted. For my money, the tie to a Kentucky gunmaker and style, in a period that is correct (late 17-early 18 per the article), is as important to me as anything else.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Online RobD

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 08:42:17 AM »
yer asking for advice and so here's mine - give a shout to tip curtis and have him make ya a "po' boy" carolina .45 flinter.  i guarantee you will not be disappointed.

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 09:05:57 AM »
Quote from: "rfd"
yer asking for advice and so here's mine - give a shout to tip curtis and have him make ya a "po' boy" carolina .45 flinter.  i guarantee you will not be disappointed.

Good advice! I doubt I'd be 'dissapointed' with much of anything!

I am in the fortunate position to live about 8 miles from Bob Elka. I think there may be an opportunity for me to participate in the build, so it's kind of a given this is where I'll be going.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 09:47:40 PM »
Made an appointment to meet with the builder tomorrow evening! I'm pumped!
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2014, 07:55:51 AM »
Going to try and find this book:

Kentucky Gunmakers of the Muzzle Loading Era 1775-1900 by Shelby Gallien

Specifically about makers IN Kentucky during this period.

After meeting with my builder he concurs with you folks who said a poor boy is too late. He also thinks some of the features on the CLA rifle are too late.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2014, 01:15:37 PM »
This thread ain't dead yet...

So, I sent an email to the Wayne County Kentucky Historical Society asking about my relative. They wrote back and asked for my mailing address, said they have stuff to send!

Regarding the previous suggestion that I need a photograph...true, but photography wasn't invented yet!
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Captchee

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2014, 01:17:15 PM »
LMAO, No  detacted they were not . the photo graph i was speaking of would be a later one of a family memeber where the gun maybe in the background

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2014, 01:19:21 PM »
Quote from: "Captchee"
LMAO, No  detacted they were not . the photo graph i was speaking of would be a later one of a family memeber where the gun maybe in the background

Nice recovery!  :hairy  

I also ordered the Kentucky Gunmakers book from the author. Can't wait to peruse it!
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Captchee

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2014, 03:57:59 PM »
:lol: had to double check what i said
Quote
Have you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2014, 07:21:39 AM »
Quote from: "Captchee"
:shock:  :lol: had to double check what i said
Quote
Have you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?

LOL! Yeah, kind of funny. It didn't even occur to me until later!

Not even a daggone tintype!
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Offline Detached

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Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2014, 02:05:01 PM »
I don't know if anyone is still following this thread or not. I have continued to research my collateral ancestor in an effort to get this rifle as close as possible. In case you haven't yet figured me out, I'm one of those people who finds as much pleasure in the chase as I do in the kill. Getting there is half the fun.  

Anyway, yesterday I received some documents in the mail from the Wayne County Kentucky Historical Society regarding my ancestor who fought at the Battle of New Orleans. Knowing some of his specifics allowed me to do more directed searches, which led to finding this on the internet:
 
"The United States quartermaster distributed this pay to the Tennessee troops who had preceded them, but withheld it from the Kentuckians. Believing that they would be furnished suitable clothing or pay, blankets, tents, arms and munitions, with reasonable promptness, they left home with little else than the one suit of clothing they wore, usually of homespun jeans....
 
Not one man in ten was well armed, and only one man in three had any arms at all.’ It is the business of a government to arm its soldiers, but such arms as the Kentuckians took to New Orleans were their own private property. The Secretary of War had promised to send arms and munitions down the Mississippi River for the supply of the Kentucky militia, but through the incompetency of the quartermaster at Pittsburg, whence the arms were to be shipped, these supplies were much delayed in starting, and had gotten only as far on the way as the mouth of the Ohio River on the day when the Kentuckians reached New Orleans, and did not get to that city until many days after all need for them was past. However, the citizens of New Orleans contributed enough of their own private and personal guns and rifles to arm Slaughter’s regiment, about seven hundred men fit for duty..."


Based on that, this rifle has become more of a crapshoot than ever. It may have originated in Kentucky. It could've been a borrowed rifle from someone in Louisiana. The only thing I can say for certain is the rifle was not of military issue.

So, I have decided then to move in a different direction. Instead of trying to build a specific style, this rifle will have attribues of the Kentucky Schools, but be built as a rifle to commemorate the upcoming bicentennial of the end of the War of 1812, and the Battle of New Orleans. I have a couple of ideas in mind that I think will result in a very nice finished piece.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Online RobD

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2014, 02:46:52 PM »
given the complete lack of ancestral historical facts, once again and has been mentioned numerous times - YES, it's a pure crap shoot.  you should really satisfy yerself, first and foremost.  it's all fantasy to a more than fair degree. ;)

Offline Detached

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2014, 03:03:13 PM »
Quote from: "rfd"
given the complete lack of ancestral historical facts, once again and has been mentioned numerous times - YES, it's a pure crap shoot.  you should really satisfy yerself, first and foremost.  it's all fantasy to a more than fair degree. ;)

True to a point, but to say 'has been mentioned numerous times' discounts my efforts. It could be mentioned a million times but caries no merit until such time as one decides their research is complete, or hits a dead end. I have reached the dead end. My original post was April 18, over a month ago. Since that time I have made every attempt to find more information, even a description that he went off to fight taking his daddy's rifle would be welcomed. As silly as that may sound, it is well within the realm of possibility based on some of descriptions I've read of eyewitness accounts of families who've sent their kin off to war. There are documented cases of specific rifles made in Kentucky that were in the War of 1812.

So, now at this point, yes. Given the complete lack of ancestoral historical facts, it's a crap shoot. But then, since my builder can't even start until this fall, who knows what I may run across by then!
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Online RobD

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Re: Tell me about my rifle?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2014, 03:05:03 PM »
Quote from: "Detached"
....So, now at this point, yes. Given the complete lack of ancestoral historical facts, it's a crap shoot. But then, since my builder can't even start until this fall, who knows what I may run across by then!

best of luck, yer gonna need it unless a miracle occurs.  8)