On Shooting Smoothbores

[Bigsmoke]

I was digging around in some boxes of printed material today and found the following article that I copied from some muzzleloading publication or another and thought you might find it amusing.

The Smoothbore Hunting Rifle
Not popular, but included for reference, there are few smoothbore hunting rifles around, although certain special black powder only hunts still call for them.  Opinions varied in the past concerning smoothbores.  William Cotton Oswell, first professional elephant hunter in Africa, favored his 10 gauge Purdey smoothbore.  Baker borrowed Oswell's rifle, concluding, "There could not have been a better form of muzzle-loader than this No. 10 double barrel smoothbore.  It was very accurate at 50 yards...."  After hunting in Ceylon, however, Baker changed his mind, saying, "Smoothbores I count for nothing."  General George Hanger, said to be the best shot in the British Army during the Revolution, concluded:  "Firing at a man at 200 yards with a common musket, you may as well fire at the moon."

Smoothbores, love 'em or hate 'em have been around forever.  You cannot argue with their longevity, so there must be something to them.  I did like the comment about firing at the moon.

John

[RobD]

to each their own, and opinions are akin to snowflakes.

lots depends on where yer coming from and what era. 

living in the 18th century, the smoothbore was king and for good reasons - it was a jack of all trades that may have been a master of none, but got the job done.  the common farmer would be nuts to have only a rifle, and it was tough enuf to afford even a trade smoothbore.

today, smoothies are just a fun challenge of sorts to get both ball and shot to work reasonably well, and understand its limitations. 

if i was allowed only one trad muzzleloader, it would be a smoothie.  to each their own.   

[Bigsmoke]

This was taken from a Lyman publication probably about 1999 or 2000.  The whole article discussed various calibers and round ball and conicals. 
The comments were quoted in the 18th and 19th century.
I do agree about the versatility of the smooth bore back "in the day", and even today.  Tough to beat the economy of scooping up a handful of gravel and pouring it down the muzzle.  And you don't want to get in the way of that payload.
But, Samuel White Baker had some knowhow about hunting big game and experience with big bore rifles.  Probably killed more elephants than any of us has ever seen.  So, I would trust his opinion, too.
Too many opinions is the bottom line.
John

[RobD]

... But, Samuel White Baker had some knowhow about hunting big game and experience with big bore rifles.  Probably killed more elephants than any of us has ever seen.  So, I would trust his opinion, too. ...

yeah, his opinion has weight for sure ... but only in the extremely unlikely happenstance were i to find meself hunting lions, tigers or elephants.  hereabouts in norte america, grizzly and mebbe crafty cougar might be the big concern, but them ain't the quarry of most sane hunters these dayze.  a large-ish bore smoothie will do just fine for deer, hog, black bear, elk, moose, etc., at smoothie sane distances.

[AxelP]

I can regularly get minute of paperplate/hand sized groups offhand with my 62 cal smoothbore out to 70 yards. At 45 yards I can tighten up my group to 4 inches on good days. Thats with no rear sight, (well... I use my tang screw slot as a means of aligning my front sight). To be honest, I don't do all that much better with my 50 cal rifle. I am not a fine marksman, but for whatever reason that fowler suits me. But saying that, I would not want to tackle an elephant or a lion with it...

With shot, out of the same gun I have hit 6 out of 6 flying clays in a row out to 40 yards. And I have gotten my day limit of pheasant many times, and shot a fair share of tree rats. Still working on my proficiency hunting quail with a flinter. Those birds are just too fast. My buddy calls them "ghost birds"-- he is certain that the shot flies right thru them. LOL.

[prairie dog]

Versatility is the name of the game for smoothbores.  One gun that can do it all, especially in days of plentiful game and hunting in close cover.  Today they are still effective in situations where you can call the game close, hunt tight cover and don't need a second shot.  Spring turkey hunts are a perfect application of a smoothbore.  They would be perfect for elk too if we were allowed to use them during the archery / rutting season when they can be called in close.   

[Uncle Russ]

They would be perfect for elk too if we were allowed to use them during the archery / rutting season when they can be called in close.   

I totally agree with Steve on this. In my neck of the woods, this is the key reason for not seeing smooth bores during the "Regular" Muzzle Loading Season.
In fact, that was the topic of a subject at my house last month when I discovered I didn't get drawn, again, for the Yakima / Wenas area.....Early season is not early enough, by at least two weeks, and late season in the foothills is for the young at heart, or those with means, as heavy snows come early to this side of the Cascades..... Sometimes very early!

In fact, as of right now, I feel strongly that if you don't tag out in the first couple of days, your chance of getting a shot at all goes South in a hurry.

Of course there's the exception to this, and we see it every year....sometimes the weather does move in and that helps, then quite often, some of the die-hard road hunters after running those roads from daylight to dark for the entire season, on occasion their persistence does pay off, and they get one near the road.

But I don't favor this method of hunting, and I often condemn it, but my opinion is just one of many and this practice continues year after year. In WA State, a Muzzleloader is not considered loaded in vehicle unless it is primed, or capped.
I would like to see that changed, and have voiced that opinion at several Fish & Game open Forums.

I'm sorry, this thread is not about my complaints, but the use of the often underrated Smooth Bore.
I have two Smooth Bore Guns, both with Rifle Sights, one a nice old .69cal that I can't hit the side of a barn with at 20 feet using a roundball!...but it still makes for a wonderful scatter-gun, and flints seem to last longer in this gun than any other flinter I have ever owned!

The other is a lowly T/C Renegade .56 smoothie Cap Gun, that I can shoot his eyes out with...if I can get that shot at 50yds or less.

There is no doubt in my military mind about "if" that .56 roundball will take him down, because I have taken Elk with a .58. a .54, and one young cow with a .50 cal...... all at distances over 65/70 yards. Never had to 'follow-one-up for more' than 100 yds,  because after I shoot and reload, I wait, and I wait, and I listen.....
It's not like I'm going to get a quick follow up shot, so you can betcha I am very careful in choosing just 'when' to take that shot.
 
Uncle Russ...

[Winter Hawk]

In WA State, a Muzzleloader is not considered loaded in vehicle unless it is primed, or capped.

Same here in Ohio.  I have only had to remove prime a couple of times, once when I had a ball stuck part way down the bore & I wanted to take it home to soak it.  Well, that was not removing the prime but I was glad it wasn't considered loaded without a prime.  And when walking from down the road one hunting area to another by dumping the prime rather than shooting the load out or pulling the ball.  But I understand your position with regard to road hunting.  What is the requirement for a cartridge gun?  If it needs to be unloaded but the hunter can just grab a magazine, pop it in and be ready to shoot, that would be the same as needing to prime or cap a piece in my opinion.

~Kees~

[Paulk]

to each their own, and opinions are akin to snowflakes.

lots depends on where yer coming from and what era. 

living in the 18th century, the smoothbore was king and for good reasons - it was a jack of all trades that may have been a master of none, but got the job done.  the common farmer would be nuts to have only a rifle, and it was tough enuf to afford even a trade smoothbore.

today, smoothies are just a fun challenge of sorts to get both ball and shot to work reasonably well, and understand its limitations. 

if i was allowed only one trad muzzleloader, it would be a smoothie.  to each their own.   
[/quote

[Paulk]

My sentiments exactly Rob. I am having the most fun shooting my Smoothbore. Can't wait to try and take a deer with it this fall.

[Uncle Russ]

If it should come about that we could only one Muzzle Loader, there is no doubt whatsoever as to what that choice would be. 

Back in the day, and as has been mentioned here many times before, it was never about what they "could have had" but more about what they already had, and / or what they could afford to buy or trade for at the time.
The Trade Gun or smoothbore was almost always near the bottom of the list in initial cost, but maintained a steady position in the number one spot on that same list in popularity.

I strongly believe "Dropped Shot" was nearly always included in their preferred smoothbore load, and I have never been convinced that a "patch", meaning a cloth patch, was always used with their round ball loads, although it most likely would have added a bit of accuracy, and undoubtedly used at least some of the time.....I have even read of thin leather being used, yet I strongly believe many, if not most, round ball was shot 'naked' with a over ball wadding made of moss, leaves, grass, hornet nest, whatever was handy...I believe that because that is most likely the same wadding that was used when using shot, while using the same gun as a smoothbore.

But then I have to ask myself just how  much accuracy was really needed for them to do the job at hand, as these guys were real hunters, no road hunters found here, and I have to assume most of their game was shot up close.............as was their enemies. 

Just thinking out loud, on cyber paper, I suspect. But this is one exciting subject you guys have going....and I love it.
I have read a lot on this subject, since I got involved back in 60's, yet I never seem to get tired of reading about it, especially individual thinking......

Many thread counters need and require provenance for every single thing that happened prior to yesterday, but not me.
I readily accept the fact that ten people can witness an event, and ten different stories, all just a wee bit different, will describe what all just saw, that's simply because each of them had an individual perspective of what they all just saw, with their own two eyes.
And that is a good thing. Individual perspective is what best defines the road to progress, and the advancement of civilization as a whole.....God gave us that, and it's meant to be a blessing, not something to be condemned because we disagree on certain little points.

If you can think it, our forefathers could very well have thought it too, within reason of course, our forefathers would never think, or believe that we were writing about them on a thing called a computer, or a phone, or a tablet...that would have been outside their thinking, and their own perspective.
But they were very familiar with guns of their time, and how they operated, and guns of THAT particular time, and how they work, have not changed.

Uncle Russ....




 

[RobD]

until at least the late 18th century i seriously doubt that any manner of cloth was regularly used as a patch or wad.  cloth was a premium and meant to be worn or for bedding or for other utilitarian purposes where the cloth wasn't getting a one time only use and destroyed by fire.  i suspect that readily found plant matter such as tow and leaves, along with hornets hive, and any paper materials that could be scrounged up, were all resourcefully used as the powder and shot or ball go-between for muzzy loads.  just as stones and pebbles were a shot substitute.  there is no doubt that straight powder and ball or shot was used as well.

the very vast majority of colonists were farmers, usually with live stock if they were lucky.  what they produced was mostly for their sustenance, and any excess, if any, was used to barter for what they couldn't produce or create, such as foods, clothing, tools. 

a gun was a tool, no more or less.  they were expensive items that were not self sustaining and required accoutrements to both make them work and exist.  those were individualist tough times.  you made your way through the world by the sweat of your brow and the gray matter twixt yer ears.  the very early colonists who survived, and who's families continued on, were the darwinian breeding ground for the revolutionary times to come, and nation yet to be.

[Ohio Joe]

I agree with a lot of things said here. I think one of the most prevalent comments made is the close quarter of shots taken. That makes perfect sense to me. I also heard/read that thin leather was used as a patch, and I certainly wouldn't rule out that many a family Bible pages made their way down a smooth bore as wadding. This is (as was said) a very interesting topic. 

[RobD]

for the very most part, with a trad muzzleloader in the vein of the 18th century, i've always viewed that kinda weapon as a slightly longer distance version of a trad stickbow. 

[Ohio Joe]

for the very most part, with a trad muzzleloader in the vein of the 18th century, i've always viewed that kinda weapon as a slightly longer distance version of a trad stickbow. 

When you think about it,,, yes, I can see that.