Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: No Powder on March 13, 2024, 10:55:54 AM
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Instead of swabbing between shots, I read about an individual who simply places a cleaning patch on the end of the jag, and runs this down the barrel as he is shoving the prb down the barrel. Naturally the patch should come back out as the ramrod is removed. Has anyone tried this, or maybe using this method in their loading procedure?
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Since I started using beaver milk as a patch lube I have never had to swab a barrel during a shoot, 30 shots and no swabbing!
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My advice to you would be to continue using beaver milk. I'm still using LV, but sooner than later I'll run out. I only have one rifle that causes some issues. Thinking of trying this fellows method to see if it may help. I bought this rifle used, and am thinking some rust in the barrel may be the culprit.
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Instead of swabbing between shots, I read about an individual who simply places a cleaning patch on the end of the jag, and runs this down the barrel as he is shoving the prb down the barrel. Naturally the patch should come back out as the ramrod is removed. Has anyone tried this, or maybe using this method in their loading procedure?
I have seen this done many times back in Ohio at the monthly shoots when I was a member of the Shawnee Long Rifles. I've also seen it done at the Nebraska State ML Shoot... I don't think it's a new concept. It has probably been done many a times by more serious shooters who strive for every bit of accuracy they can achieve - and it probably does help... As for me, I'm a spit patcher and usually never swab between shots unless I feel the need to / though I will swab the barrel between 5 shot groups.
IMHO, what you described above Tom, would indeed give one a more "controlled fouled barrel" - shot to shot / as does swabbing between shots / and you wouldn't have to worry about any dampness in the "powder charge" breech area - that may foul the charge... :shake
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I was pretty certain this procedure wasn't anything new. But I didn't remember of reading about it before. But the way my mind works anymore, anything can happen. Joe ,you was correct about being a more uniform barrel condition using this method. And the absence of moisture in the breech was another good point. With these advantages, and maybe others, I think the next trip to the range, will include trying this method. Of course it won't help with the Rev. sized target. Nessmuk is in charge of finding help with that target. :pray
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I'm like the Beav, never have to swab the barrel. This procedure is a new one to me. I guess I should pay more attention to you old timers and learn something ;)
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Well Hank, I agree with you. I've never had to swab before, and I really don't want to start now, but it's beginning to look like an option with this gun. But I may try a few other things before trying this method.
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I'm like the Beav, never have to swab the barrel. This procedure is a new one to me. I guess I should pay more attention to you old timers and learn something ;)
I seldom ever swab between shots unless shooting conditions dictate that I need to. However, I've found that out here where I live - the ol' spit patch works just fine loading from the horn & bag, and the less stuff I have to cart to the Range and back sure makes for a more pleasent outing. Rifle / Bag / and Horn, is all one needs... :bl th up
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A while back, I went on a trail walk where there were about 25 shots.
I was shooting my buffalo rifle, 12 bore, 1-104 rot, loading 200 grains of Ffg, .715 rb, .015 OxYoke .70-79 patch and, listen carefully, an OxYoke 12 ga pre-lubed cushion wad, loaded powder, wad and patched round ball. I would say that the last shot loaded as easily as the first one, and the shot placement did not vary a bit. Amazingly enough, the long shot was at a wooden elk silhouette with a steel clanger placed in the kill zone. This was placed at approximately 250 yards up a steep hill. First time I ever hit it. Never did with my .54.
Anyway, that's what I did, YMMV, and I seriously doubt many of you would be shooting that large a caliber with those powder charges.
As far as the patched jag goes, I have heard of it but never tried it. I think that belongs in the bounce your ramrod camp, a place I don't care to go. FWIW, I have never seen a ramrod bouncer finish first in a shooting match, although you might have.
John
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Ok, I'll be the one. What is "Beaver Milk"? Moose Milk I've heard of, but Beaver milk is a new one on me. I did a search on our site and Today was the first mention.
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Nessmuk, you just gotta get out more.
Just kidding, I have never heard of it either. Now Jim might have his own private menu of items in it, but if I were to guess, it would be WSO and aqua pura. But I sure don't know.
John
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Bare with me while my vision clears up. Things got a little fuzzy while thinking of Bigsmoke shooting that buffalo gun. Thanks for asking that question fellows. I was afraid to ask. But then again, I just heard of Cat Whiz lube. What's next?
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Ok, I'll be the one. What is "Beaver Milk"? Moose Milk I've heard of, but Beaver milk is a new one on me. I did a search on our site and Today was the first mention.
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH ancient Chinese secret!
Just Beavermans own Moose Milk recipe! aka Beaver Milk!
Get a clean 1 gal jug ( I use Langers or Ocean Spray jugs) their heavier weight plastic than a milk jug,
add 1C Dawn
1C Murphys Oil Soap
1- 4 or 5 oz. bottle of Hoppes #9
Top off with water, shake and use for a year or 2 for patch lube and clean the barrel after shooting ( when I was shooting every month and a couple rondys a month for 6 or 7 months I used a gal in about a year and a half! When I lube my dry patches, I put them in an old school plastic 35mm film can, top off the BM, let set about 10 mins, then I pour the excess back into jug use my thumb to depress the patches against the bottom of the canister upside down until it stops dripping, then I either use them on a loading board( for a woods walk ) or just throw them in an old Ted Cash snuff can holder lying on the loading bench, patches are not dripping but between damp and wet, never had a problem with powder fouling yet, I DO NOT USE THIS HUNTING> Your Mileage May Vary!
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I'm trying to get my head around this method. I don't see how the patch on the jag when seating the PRB will do any cleaning of the bore. It is my thinking that pushing the PRB down the bore is also pushing fowling ahead of it to the top of the powder charge. A patch on the jag coming out of the bore should not be cleaning the barrel except maybe to remove excess lube.
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Not really cleaning the bore (though that would somewhat happen when pulling the patched ramrod out after seating the patched ball), and it most likely would keep the bore consistent shot to shot...
The above is all I can come up with. If anyone here at the TMA loads this way, let us know your thoughts. :shake
Note: To be honest, I personally can not see this loading method being that big of an advantage. However, I reckon how a shooter loads (his or her) fire stick is up to them and it ain't any of my business.
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I agree with Joe, all I know is that using the BM literally allows me to shoot all day and never need to swab the bore, had been this way for at least 22 years or more, screw that wonder lube and pre lubed patches that you get maybe 8 to 10 shots before you can't load anymore without cleaning the barrel!
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I'm going to need a muzzleloader Recipe book for all these things I'm learning. Moose Milk, Beaver Milk. Cat Whiz Lube, et al.
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I'm going to need a muzzleloader Recipe book for all these things I'm learning. Moose Milk, Beaver Milk. Cat Whiz Lube, et al.
Heck Nessmuk, at the end of the day all you really need is what works for you. For me, and for just plain ol' plinking & target work - spit works fine. For hunting - yes a lubed patch that gives acceptable results, and won't run the risk of causing a rust ring in the bore. :shake
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I was thinking like you Craig. I was planning to go to the range today anyway so, here's the results. These patches were dry and run down the barrel as I was seating a prb. Cast .490 round balls using LV patch lube and .015 patches. I then tried the same load using Stumpys moose juice and had the same results. A damp patch might work better. But the point is, I was surprised at the amount of crud coming out on the patches. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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That's about what I would expect to see. Imagine now if with each "reload" in the chain of fire, this is what's being pushed down the bore... IMHO, there's probably a good arguement for controling the fouling in the bore from shot to shot.
So, with the above said; should one fire a "fouling" shot before the first "Record" shot, to keep the bore in the same condition / shot to shot - for all Record Shot Score's? Probably... I could see that it could lead to tighter groups.
Will I ever do it? Highly unlikely, but again - I do see the merrits of it. :shake
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Joe, I'm a firm believer in that fouling shot before any scoring shots are fired. The proof is in the pudding. This target is the target I shot today while performing that little experiment(50 yds.). My first shot out of a clean cold barrel, is in the 4 ring. The other group was the next 5 shots following the first shot. That's why I shoot that fouling shot. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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I think that with each shot you would build up a little more fouling which gets pushed down the bore. Sure, what gets by the PRB is going to be partially removed with the patch on the jag but there is still an accumulation of crud as more shots are fired albeit not as much as if you didn't have the extra patch.
Funny, when shooting in Alaska, Wyoming and Oregon I didn't run a patch down the bore after every shot and could be shooting all day. Since coming to Ohio I can't make more than 5 shots if I don't run a patch down after every shot. Joe has mentioned this phenomenon also so it can't be just me.... :lol sign
~Kees~
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Kees, I figure you and I have about the same weather and I have no problem shooting time after time without wiping. I'm not sure why there would be a difference, but there obviously is.
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I think that with each shot you would build up a little more fouling which gets pushed down the bore. Sure, what gets by the PRB is going to be partially removed with the patch on the jag but there is still an accumulation of crud as more shots are fired albeit not as much as if you didn't have the extra patch.
Funny, when shooting in Alaska, Wyoming and Oregon I didn't run a patch down the bore after every shot and could be shooting all day. Since coming to Ohio I can't make more than 5 shots if I don't run a patch down after every shot. Joe has mentioned this phenomenon also so it can't be just me.... :lol sign
~Kees~
Very true, Kees. Ohio is just plain humid all the time... It was home to the great black swamp at one time. It's just plain humid there... I drip sweat just looking at a map of Ohio...
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Howdy Tom,
Is the patch lubed or dry?
I will definitely try this.
I need all the help I can get with accuracy.
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These patches were dry. My cleaning patches are 2 1/2" square. And it was a little hard pushing down and bringing it back out. Probably a damp patch, and maybe 2" would make it a little easier. I'm sure you'll be extracting fouling, even using a smaller patch.