Need some Non toxic shot ideas

[oneshot72]

I was thinking of going goose hunting this year and WA requires non toxic shot.  I've tried steel shot in plastic shot cups and I don't like the patterns that I get. Has anyone got a good alternative that can be used without shot cups. I will be using a 62 cal. flint smooth bore.
Mike

[No Rod]

I know this has been discused before... A few members had had some good luck wuth several non-toxics. I just don't remember which ones.

Maybe there is something new as well?

Jon

[hawkeye]

There are "options" but they cost $129.50 for 7 lbs!
http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpica ... p?dept=370

I guess it really depends on how bad you want to hunt geese with a muzzleloader if the cost is worth it to you.

[mark davidson]

Remington "heavy-shot" is the absolute best and closest to lead shot substitute that is non toxic that I have ever shot. As loose shot it is pretty pricey if it is available at all. I really do not know.  I shoot shot cups with lead shot from my fowler very nicely. Here is my idea: since I shoot shot cups and my gun patterns well with them and lead shot, I am just going to buy factory 3 1/2inch Remington Heavy Shot shells and then cut them open in the middle and use both shot cup and shot in my fowler. The cost is no worse than shooting those same shells in a modern gun and I will not be shooting as many of them since I will be shooting one shot at a time. I figure I can cut the shell in two right behind the shot cup and tape that end up and have a nice way to transport my shot and cup to the field for loading. Just a thought.

[Kermit]

If Hawkeye's link didn't work for you either, here's Ballistic Products link for ITX shot:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=370

Spendy, but maybe easier/cheaper than cutting up shotshells. Go get you a goose for Christmas!

[62flint]

this is what I use
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html

[Kermit]

And at about half the price of ITX!

[Uncle Russ]

this is what I use
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html

62Flint, since it seems you most likely have some "hands-on" with this stuff, how about a performance report....nothing fancy, just a few experiences.

Do you use a shot cup?
What is the pellet count for 1.25 oz of #4's?...or #6'?
What bore is your gun, cyl?  modern or old?
(I'm assuming it's a .62 or 20 ga.)
Shot charge vs Powder charge?
Whatever other little bits of info you might want to share.

There is absolutely no need for me to go into my own dismal failures in trying to get steel to pattern properly, and I also have to admit that I have very little experience using non-toxic, other than Kent's "Heavy-Shot" in a modern gun.

Like Fletcher has mention several times, in different threads, it's the cost that keeps me away from such experiments.  Life can sometimes be a strugle for an old retired po-boy, dontcha know:?

Thanks for the information! This is the most reasonable price I have seen so far, and at this price I just might have to give it a try, depending a lot on your and Kermit's thoughts, since the two of you seem to be on top of this.

BTW; I would be loading this in a .69 and a .62 if I should jump into it....also, the Columbia Basin and Grant County in particuar, offers some of the best waterfowl  shooting in the entire western part of the US.

Uncle Russ...

[62flint]

First off I never duck hunted with lead shot.
Second I am not technical enough to give pellet counts etc.
I will be happy to tell you what I use and how it works for me.

I duck hunt in beaver ponds and flooded timber. Most of my shots are about 20 yards and few ever make 30 yards.
My load patterns nice to about 35 yards. I feel confident in killing at 30 yards be it duck or turkey.

I shoot a 20 guage fowler that is jugged choked. It is supposed to be choked improved modified.

I shoot 75 grains of 2ffg goex , 1 over powder card{1/8th inch} 1 1/2" cushion wad soaked with beeswax beef tallow or deer tallow lude, 1.25oz #4 bismuth.  Sometimes I will up the powder to 80 grains. No real affect on pattern I can see but I can feel the differance in recoil. So I up it when I feel I need a little more power.

I shoot steel out of my modern guns and I feel bismuth actualy does a better job on the ducks. Just can't afford to feed my automatic with bismuth shot shells. So I up the shot size to get killing power.

I actually get very few cripples with my fowler and bismuth. I think most of the time I seem to get a pellet or two in the head neck area.

So there is my 2cents for what its worth.

[Uncle Russ]

I shoot 75 grains of 2ffg goex , 1 over powder card{1/8th inch} 1 1/2" cushion wad soaked with beeswax beef tallow or deer tallow lude, 1.25oz #4 bismuth. Sometimes I will up the powder to 80 grains. No real affect on pattern I can see but I can feel the differance in recoil. So I up it when I feel I need a little more power.

Same method I like, and prefer.
I'm sure you simply overlooked your over-shot card, but that's no big deal, we all understood...I especially liked the part where you said you could go from 75 to 80gr FFg with "no real affect on pattern".
 
The reason I asked about pellet count is because I somehow got a feeling there could be lot of tin used in this alloy in order to sell it at this price, and that of course would increase pellet count by weight and affect the overall length of the shot column, which in turn would respond, sometimes very radically, to changes in the powder charge.....ie, the longer the shot column, the more responsive the pattern is to powder changes. (Does that make sense? We may need Captchee to explain this a little better than I did.)

Thanks!

Uncle Russ...

[Captchee]

well done 62  and thanks for the link . like russ i have stayed away from the ingots becouse of the price .

 now what I do is buy a box of 12 gage bismuth shot gun shells  . i same the shot and  then  sell the primed casings to a friend who reloads

 hove you even made your own  bismuth  shot ?
 i was wondering how it comes out . is it as easy as lead or  is it a much higher temp ?

[62flint]

I worked my load by volume. I could not tell you actual weight of my shot charge.  
I do not make the shot.
On the web site. They sell "easy pour pellets".
I do not think they can sell "shot" because of patent infringements. I think bismuth shot shell company holds the patent on bismuth shot.
So they sell their "easy Pour" shot pellets to use in the shot makers. The pellets just so happen to be the same size as 3,4,5,6 or 7.5 shot.
The easy pour pellets are listed a little further down the page bellow the ingots.
I purchased a 7 lb container of #4 easy pour pellets for about $66.00.
 I think the reason I do not notice any real difference from 75 to 80 grains of powder. Is my gun is choked. I get a better pattern with 1.5 oz of shot but don't care for the recoil. Besides I feel like that is pushing the limits on a 20ga.  Probably wouldn't hurt any thing.  If I am getting good results with a lighter load no need in punishing my self.  Lest thats the way I feel.
The reason I don't shoot past 30 yards with the load is pellet energy. Never tested it. Just kinda feel that that may be far enough with a 75 grain charge.
By the way I just got back in from duck hunting. Didn't get any thing but had about 10 mallards in my honey hole. It is raining here and I was really just scouting around and looking to jump shoot one or two.
Any one want to take a trip to Virginia we can share a sunrise over a beaver pond.  Can't guarantee the ducks. Sometimes they don't like to play fair.  They get a might unsociable latter in the season here near the Chesapeake bay.

[Sean]

this is what I use
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html

When was the last time you bought shot from them?  I tried contacting them a while back and got no response.  I'd heard the guy who ran it was having health problems and they had gone out of business.  If they are back up and running, I'll certainly try again.

Thanks,

Sean

[mark davidson]

Bismuth IMO is barely any better than steel for killing ducks and steel is terrible. Bismuth has been dismal for me. Heavy-shot is so much better than bismuth that if you try it you will never shoot anything else. Real old time lead may not be better than heavy-shot. Shoot what you want but if you even think you like bismuth you will LOVE heavy-shot.

[62flint]

I use heavy shot in my modern smoothbores{cartridge guns}
It works well. But you need shot cups to protect the barrel from what I understand. I don't use shot cups. So I use bismuth. Works well for me in the limits I use it.
But yes I agree with you heavy shot works well.
A lot of people are spending a lot of money looking for that holy grail of shot material,That works as well as lead.  
By the way just wondering. I really can't tell the difference between bismuth and lead holding it in my hands. How does a game warden? I have never been checked using bismuth. But always wondered if I did. What the game warden would say.