Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => Shooting the Bow => Topic started by: RobD on October 22, 2018, 06:49:46 PM
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whilst sir arthur conan doyle was best known for his sherlock holmes books, here is his fictional account of a band of archers during the hundred years' war in 1366. click the image below to begin. it's got a goodly amount of middle english nomenclature and verbiage, but you'll get the gist of it all. i reread this book annually. interesting archery chapters are in chapters XIII, XVI, XXII, XXXIV.
(yes, wyeth's illustration of the battle archer is incorrect - war archers never used shoulder quivers, always a canvas bag quiver on their hip or at their feet, stocked with 24 bodkin pointed shafts at the least - to boot, this archer's quiver is on the wrong side for a right handed draw, and the draw bow suggests the tips are reflexed, whilst english longbows were straight with some string follow)
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It's my understand that the longbow (Warbow) English Archers also simply stuck their arrows in the ground next to them and went to showering their enemies. :shake
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dirt and feces on the bodkins added contamination to wounds, so i've read. troop movements required the large canvas hip quiver.
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I've read that too, Rob.
I've always wanted to build a Yew warbow, but it wouldn't do me any good as those things ran (as I understand it) anywhere from 90 to 120+ pound (give or take)... I'd never be able to string it, or pull it if I ever did get such a thing strung. They are a very interesting bow to be sure, as is the arrow tips designed for specific usage against all sorts of enemy armaments.
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i used to be able to hold a 65# for at least 3 seconds without any trembling, these dayze i can only do that with a 48# bow. aging ain't fun. ::)
the bodkin was the armor piercing point and the most common arrow head for war. some were tri or quad sided, some more spear-like, but all were quite long.
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Most interesting & informative discussion. :bl th up I hope it continues!
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i used to be able to hold a 65# for at least 3 seconds without any trembling, these dayze i can only do that with a 48# bow. aging ain't fun. ::)
the bodkin was the armor piercing point and the most common arrow head for war. some were tri or quad sided, some more spear-like, but all were quite long.
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I wonder how they held there arrow heads on? Hide glue, bees wax? I don't know if I ever read what they used. We know the Indians would use senew to hold their flint arrow heads in place.
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prolly easiest and most secure - a single pin.
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Take a look at my post below on the history of the Long Bow. I would have to reread portions of it, but I believe Mr. Hardy covers the glues used, etc. in his book.
Incidentally, if anyone wishes to borrow mine I'll gladly mail it as long as I have your firstborn as security that I will get it back. On second thought, I have an empty nest now, so keep the firstborn.... :laffing
Kees
P.s. I just ordered this (used) from Amazon. There was a NEW copy for $63+... :o
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My copy arrived today, in pristine condition except for a small piece of the dust jacket being torn off. I don't even think it has been opened, as it has that new book feel when flipping the pages. I have skimmed through it and am sure I will thoroughly enjoy reading it once I am done with The Voyageur by Grace Lee Nutte and H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald.
Thank you Rob for posting this!
~Kees~
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I finally got to reading The White Company. Thank you Rob for suggesting it, I really enjoyed the read. :hairy
The last chapter wasn't equal to the rest in my opinion; it felt like Conan-Doyle was just trying to make a quick end to it. Otherwise it made me want to get out in the back yard with my longbow and fling some arrows!
If anyone wants to borrow it, let me know and I'll pop it in the mail to you. I won't even hold out for your fist-born! :laffing
-Kees-
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the middle english can be a bit daunting but a good read, and good stoke for grabbing a longbow and some feathered ash shafts. 8)
i prefer reading a real book, however i did put it here, online .... The White Company (http://tradmla.org/rob/twc.htm)
these chapters will be of particular interest ... XIII, XVI, XXII, XXXIV
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prolly easiest and most secure - a single pin.
I would suspect hide glue or friction. All a war arrow would need is enough security to not fall off easily. Look up Henry the 5th and his wound. He took an arrow in the face. below the eye, 6" deep. The shaft was simply pulled free leaving the iron head inside. A surgeon had a special tool made to retrieve it, and Henry survived.
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prolly easiest and most secure - a single pin.
I would suspect hide glue or friction. All a war arrow would need is enough security to not fall off easily. Look up Henry the 5th and his wound. He took an arrow in the face. below the eye, 6" deep. The shaft was simply pulled free leaving the iron head inside. A surgeon had a special tool made to retrieve it, and Henry survived.
for a military war arrow, i totally agree - probably fish glue, same as was used for fletching.
for hunting, roving, etc, wherever arrows are to be retrieved and reused, the heads had to be riveted.
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Awesome post and great string of comments. After years of bow hunting, my should finally betrayed me. I have since stalked the wily stag with a crossbow, and in fact got a nice 5 pointer on first day of bow season this year.
But the truth is I do not like the crossbow. It is an ugly and ungainly machine that has none of the grace of a bow and needs none of the skill required either. I use my crossbow because it allows me another month to be in the woods and attempt to fill my freezer. But, I long for the days when I was fit enough to pull back a real bow.
Thanks again for a great post.
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i love longbows, real deal classic american flat longbows - "hill style" - and recently lucked into one, a hill big 5. gone are the dayze of pulling 60 or 65 pounds, now it's 45 pounds on a good day, but at least i can pull string and fly shafts ... so far! :Doh!
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But the truth is I do not like the crossbow. It is an ugly and ungainly machine that has none of the grace of a bow and needs none of the skill required either. I use my crossbow because it allows me another month to be in the woods and attempt to fill my freezer. But, I long for the days when I was fit enough to pull back a real bow.
Tremendous wisdom right there!
The sad part of this is none of us are really ready for it when it happens.
Drawing a bow is something many have us have been doing since we are kids, but all at once we can no longer get a smooth draw on the same longbow we have shot and loved for years.
We look for ways around this little problem, but life is just not the same without that longbow.
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https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/01/23/medieval-weapons-the-english-longbow/
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An English knight named William De Braose claimed an arrow “had penetrated his chain mail and clothing, passed through his thigh and saddle and finally entered his horse.”
highly unlikely given the results of current era testing of chain mail struck with period correct bodkin points powered by period correct longbows. at best, if the distance was really close, the bodkin might have opened up or slightly passed through a knight's chain mail.
When a bowman could strike down a squirrel at 100 paces, he was judged proficient enough to enlist in the army.
that sort of archery rhetoric is sprinkled throughout "the white company" and is far more wishful thinking than fact ... even for a howard hill.
surviving writings of those long ago centuries dictate that archers were by and large considered less a soldier and in fact inferior since there was no face-to-face conflict with the enemy as it appears that chivalry was an important element in warfare.
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It is an ugly and ungainly machine that has none of the grace of a bow and needs none of the skill required either.
From what I remember (not always accurate!) William Tell shot the apple off his son's head with a crossbow. Distance is not known.
~Kees~
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From what I remember (not always accurate!) William Tell shot the apple off his son's head with a crossbow. Distance is not known.
~Kees~
Didn't Wild Bill Hickock shoot Davis Tutt with a bow & arrow ? :bigsmile: