Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Smokey on January 02, 2021, 03:03:39 PM
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On at least two occasions, I have had to pack up early and extract a stuck ball. After two or three shots, the ball will not seat without using a range rod. Even then, it's a struggle. It tends to hang up about midway down. If I get past that part, the ball still won't quite seat against the powder. Again, I can get it seated if I switch to a heavy range rod. A .595 ball will roll down easily without a patch.
Is that normal?
.62 smoothbore.
.595 ball
For patching, I use either,
a). Ox-Yoke .60-69 Wonderlubed .010 patch, OR
b) scrap of linen lubed with mink oil.
I've tried swabbing before the first shot.
I've tried swabbing between shots. A .590 ball isn't much better.
Should I use smaller patches?
Maybe avoid patches altogether?
Thoughts? Wisdom?
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What charge are you using?
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60 grains FFg.
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Have you tried a liquid lube?
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Try no patch, but an over powder wad, felt wad and over shot wad, just as if you were using shot. Of course you may then have to use a larger ball. :bigsmile:
I expect the more experienced smoothbore shooters will chime in with their experience!
~Kees~
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On at least two occasions, I have had to pack up early and extract a stuck ball. After two or three shots, the ball will not seat without using a range rod. Even then, it's a struggle. It tends to hang up about midway down. If I get past that part, the ball still won't quite seat against the powder. Again, I can get it seated if I switch to a heavy range rod. A .595 ball will roll down easily without a patch.
Is that normal?
.62 smoothbore.
.595 ball
For patching, I use either,
a). Ox-Yoke .60-69 Wonderlubed .010 patch, OR
b) scrap of linen lubed with mink oil.
I've tried swabbing before the first shot.
I've tried swabbing between shots. A .590 ball isn't much better.
Should I use smaller patches?
Maybe avoid patches altogether?
Thoughts? Wisdom?
.62 smoothbore.
.595 ball
For patching, I use either,
a). Ox-Yoke .60-69 Wonderlubed .010 patch, OR
b) scrap of linen lubed with mink oil.
Okay, lets do some math;
.620 bore
.595 Ball + .010 x 2 = .020 + .595 = (.615)
One would sure think that combination should work. If you can seat .590 ball with the same patch (that would give you (.610) -or- even go down to a .585 ball + .010 patch x 2 = .605... -or- .580 ball + .010 patch = .600 / or / .580 ball = .015 patch = .610...
Was this smoothbore used when you got it, or new? I ask, because perhaps if it were used - someone may not of maintained it very well...
Can you run a cleaning patch and feel any roughness in the bore in that area where the ball won't seat?
I also wonder if you got this used if someone might have used some "steel" shot in it instead of lead shot???
I also wonder if 99% of it is just fouling?
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Ohio Joe,
I bought the gun new and it's still somewhat new to me. Fouling issue maybe?
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That very well could be...
I think the more you shoot it, the more it'll tell you.
I need to get out with my smoothbore once Spring rolls around... I don't believe I shot mine at all in 2020, but where I left off in 2019 was looking for that "tightest" patch & ball load I could reload easy enough shot after shot.
Good luck and have fun with it! :hairy
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FWIW: I don't like the sound of that, "It tends to hang up about midway down".......
I have had guns where the PRB was hard as the devil start. and I have had guns where the PRB seemed to want to stop just before seating on the powder charge according to the witness mark on the Ram Rod..... and we all know that ain't good.
In both cases, it was fairly easily resolved by the Fire Lapping of 10 / 15 shots.
Don't get excited about "Fire Lapping", there ain't no big deal about doing it and the metal used in the manufacture of today's guns is almost bulletproof, pardon the pun.
Anyway, you have a couple of choices in how you'll be doing this.
You will need JB Bore Paste, and a small tube of Valve grinding Compound.
You can "Lap" with JB Bore Paste, or use plain old Valve grinding Compound, but actual Fire Lapping is my personal choice.
With Fire Lapping, You load your normal load of powder, I think you said you're using about 60gr FFg, then you make a paste with Valve Grinding Compound and Baby Oil and smear up a .010 patch real good, then you seat the ball and patch down on the powder, Put a cap on it and fire it off, you don't have to shoot at anything in particular, just shoot it! Wipe between shots as necessary and Repeat this for about 10 or so shots, and you will find, or better yet, you should "feel" it loading easier, and much much smoother.
When you've reached this point, after "Fire Lapping" you're not done yet, you then you take a one caliber smaller brass bore brush, in your case a .58 brass brush would be about right, you wrap the Brass Brush good and tight with 0000 Steel Wool to where you can just get it down the bore, then use your fingers to mash/imbed/saturate the steel wool with as much JB Bore Paste as possible, and start swabbing, and you keep on swabbing, and refreshing the JB Bore Cleaner.
You will need 100 strokes minimum, with 200 strokes being the preferred goal.....you want that bore "shiny as a new Nickle", and smooth as a Baby's behind!...all the way down.
Clover Brand Valve Grinding Compound from NAPA is about 280/300 Grit.
JB Bore Paste is about 1,000/1,200 Grit.
Just make sure you use the JB Last.....or, as many have done when they are afraid of damaging the bore somehow, just use the JB and spend the many hours of pushing and pulling on that Ram Rod necessary to get the job done....if you don't care for Fire Lapping that's fine, many don't.
Just be prepared for a lot of work if you choose to do it all by hand. It can be done, as it has been done for years.
Just don't believe those old wives' tales about how fragile the barrel of your gun is.
Today's technology provides us with the best barrels ever made. Period!
You ain't going to hurt your barrel by Fire Lapping!
Years ago, we did this same thing with Bon Ami Scrubbing Powder.
An old wives' tale has us afraid to use any other cleaner because we would do dreadful things to the bore of our guns!
Well, let me tell ya....my older guns survived Ajax, Bon Ami, and every other scrubbing agent back in the 60's and 70's....some of the guns we got back then from Dixie Gun Works, Log Cabin, Pecotenica River Guns, TOTW, just about all of 'em needed "something" to clean the mess out the barrels left behind by quality control if they even had a quality control back then....and some of the more knowledgeable amongst the shooters of that time came up with what I just gave you....it works.
BTW: We're 3 days into the year 2021, let's make this the year that we rid ourselves of all the old wive's tales that otherwise simply refuse to die.
Russ...
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From the research I've done on the fur trade period,.... the most common way to load one's smooth bore, was to simply drop a powder charge down the bore, followed by a ball and "wadding". (specifically "blanket wadding" was mentioned)
Today, a few folks report good luck shooting "bare ball" loads (as described above),.... while the majority of modern shooters seem to favor "patched ball" loads.
When experimenting with bare ball loads, it's best to keep the ball size (somewhere) within 0.020" of the bore's actual size.
My main smooth bore measures .615,.... and favors a .600 "bare ball",.... and 80 grs. of Olde Eynsford FFFG.
80 grs. of FFFG might sound like a pretty hefty load, but it's not when shooting bare balls. :bl th up
I haven't spent enough time (yet) figuring out what my other .62 smooth bores prefer,... but I'm hoping it'll be something similar.
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First, thanks to everyone for sharing suggestions. Today, I tried shooting without any patches, just 60 grains of FFg under a .595 ball. No stuck balls! Easy to load. The gun shot well too.
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First, thanks to everyone for sharing suggestions. Today, I tried shooting without any patches, just 60 grains of FFg under a .595 ball. No stuck balls! Easy to load. The gun shot well too.
:hairy :toast :applaud
A round ball that isn't "spinning" will become unstable at lower velocities,.... so you may find yourself needing to increase your powder charge (a bit) for ranges beyond what you were shooting today. :bl th up
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Thanks, Rollingb. You. may be right. At 25 yards, I hit my mark with 60 grains. At 50 yards, I will adjust the recipe as needed.
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Sounds to me like a possible rough spot that needs polishing out.
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Sounds to me like a possible rough spot that needs polishing out.
Running a tight fitting patch and jag down the bore should be able to detect any "rough spot". :bl th up
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:wave Tell you what, that post from Uncle Russ is full of wisdom, so I shamelessly copied & pasted it into my word processor, then saved it for future use. Having admitted to that, I would like to suggest that it be copied into a new post in the "Gun Building and Repair" forum and saved as a sticky, perhaps under the subject of "Lapping the Bore".
A big Thank You and tip of the hat to our favorite Uncle! :hairy
~Kees~
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Excerpt from “Breaking In a Barrel” by Lee Shaver (muzzle and breech loader gunsmith extraordinaire) :
Several years ago, I developed a process for breaking-in barrels for lead
bullet use that eliminated the afternoon of shooting and cleaning with
jacketed bullet. It began because I would occasionally have to get bad
leading out of a barrel for a customer, and when you charge what a
gunsmith must charge to stay in business you don’t want to spend an
afternoon scrubbing the lead out of a customer’s gun. And I’m sure the
customer would rather not pay for said services.
What I learned was that when scrubbing lead out of a barrel, I could run
a tight oily patch through a few times and then take the patch off the
jag. I would then unroll a little 0000 steel wool and cut a piece the size
of the patch. Place that over the patch and then run it all through
together. (The proper fit is when you have to bump the rod a few times
with the palm of your hand to get it started in the bore.) When you
shove that steel wool over a patch through the bore of a badly leaded
barrel, it may sound like paper tearing as the lead is ripped out of the
barrel in a pass or two. I can clean the lead out of the worst barrel in
about ten or fifteen minutes that way, and an average leaded barrel will
be clean in a few strokes.
After using this technique for a while, I began to notice that the rifles
that I was de-leading that way seemed to lead less afterwards, which
got me to thinking. We use fine steel wool on the outside of old guns all
the time to do some cleaning or spot rust removal, and it does not
damage the surface of the steel. It just scrubs it. Which lead me to
consider the fact that we are trying to break in a barrel by smoothing
the surface without cutting, and it seems to me that process would go
much quicker if we used something on the inside of the bore that was
closer to the hardness of the barrel instead of lead or copper. So I
started trying the steel wool and oiled patch technique on new barrels
before shooting them. I use it about as tight as I can get in the bore and
wear out a steel wool pad or two in about 15 minutes, then I go and
shoot the rifle.
How well does it work you might ask? On a few occasions, I have built a
new rifle and taken it to a match without ever having fired the rifle. All
have performed flawlessly in their first match and several times I won
the match or set a record with them. On one occasion, I set a new 300
yard range record with the first 13 shots out of a barrel. This method
has become a service we offer to our customers here in the shop and I
have shared the technique many times with others.
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Lee Shaver is a well respected name, he's well know to everyone who shoots BPCR.
When Lee Shaver speaks, all shooters should take notice!
Russ...
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When the gun is dirty, there are some tight spots in the barrel. They are most obvious as I pull the patch back out of the barrel. It tends to stick on the way out. Scrubbing with a tornado brush and bore mop helps smooth out the bore a lot. However, Lee Shaver's advice offers some additional strategies that may prove useful.
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Lee Shaver is a well respected name, he's well know to everyone who shoots BPCR.
When Lee Shaver speaks, all shooters should take notice!
Amen! :bl th up
~Kees~
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Lee is also a World Class long range (1000 yards) muzzleloader, with many International wins to his credit. :bow :bow