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Author Topic: Jacob Dickert Build Progress  (Read 29177 times)

Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2014, 04:04:31 PM »
well done

Offline 4-Liberty

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2014, 09:37:55 AM »
Well, I've been working on inletting the trigger and I'm just about finished. I opted for the double-set trigger rather than the single trigger. There are a few issues that I came across, and I will address those in a bit.

Outlining the trigger plate.


Scraping the final depth of the trigger plate.


On to the issues:
First issue is the curvature of the trigger plate. As you can see in the photo below, the depth of the trigger plate is quite-a-bit deeper at the ends than it is at the center near the triggers. The center is just a hair below flush. I've tried bending the plate a little and it helped slightly, but there's only so much that I want to bend it before I start messing up the mechanics of the trigger. So I guess I'm unsure on how to properly correct this.


Second issue:
During the settling in of the trigger plate, somehow a gap was created at each end of the trigger plate. I outlined the trigger plate with an exactoknife and started chiseling away within the outline. As it was going down it seemed very tight at the ends of the plate, so much so that it was difficult to get the plate in and out and I was afraid that it might be so tight that it would peel a piece of wood off when taking it out. So I took a chisel and took a hair off of each end. This seemed to help, but the further I settled the plate in the wider the gap on the ends widened. I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but it happened. I guess there could no better place to mess up the inletting than on the ends of the trigger plate because the flaw will mostly be covered by the trigger guard.


Which leads me to the third issue.
As you can see I didn't properly plan ahead the trigger guard. The front of the trigger plate is right where the front lug of the trigger guard needs to be. What I should have done was while laying out the outline of the trigger plate I should have checked the placement of the trigger guard, but I didn't do that so now I have to deal with it. I'm just not sure how to do that. I could cut off the trigger plate so it doesnt interfere with the trigger guard lug and plug the inletted space with a piece of maple that I don't have, or since the area will be covered with the trigger guard, I could glass bed it, which I do have. I am definetly open to other suggestions..


Other than that, it's going pretty smooth! :Doh!
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Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2014, 11:15:15 AM »
Ok , lets start from the top .

Quote
First issue is the curvature of the trigger plate. As you can see in the photo below, the depth of the trigger plate is quite-a-bit deeper at the ends than it is at the center near the triggers. The center is just a hair below flush. I've tried bending the plate a little and it helped slightly, but there's only so much that I want to bend it before I start messing up the mechanics of the trigger. So I guess I'm unsure on how to properly correct this.


. What you did is, for the most parts how I do it .  Remember your working on a pre-carve. As such your going to take a lot of wood off of the surface.   Frankly though  it looks fine IMO . A little shaping of the  lines on the bottom of the stock  which will be needed anyway and it will come out perfect .
Your trigger guard is not going to set on the surface. It will also be inlet . As such the front of your trigger plate looks   to be about right as your TG will be inlet to the point the sides of the casting are  in the wood . IE the  your angled flats should start on the wood surface. Done forget  that your going to eventually be taking some wood of the belly of the stock .
 When it comes to the back being low at the nose and tail of the trigger plate  . Again that’s something you have to deal with  a pre-carve    that you shouldn’t have to when working from a plank  .IE because the profile of the pre-carved stock has already been defined , there will be only a small area where the trigger plate will match the  bottom curve of the stock . As such if your pull is not the same as defined in the original layout  you end up with  what you have and then have to make some adjustments  
 your rear tab of the TG will be inlet . As such the trigger plate must be below the wood  to allow for that . If its still way lower then you can look at  thinning the wood down alittle .
BUT!!!!! Before you do anything . Let me ask you this . When you inlet the trigger  and took the photo , was the trigger set or unset ?. It looks to me that it maybe set , but
 The reason it make a difference is that when you set the trigger , the main spring is going to  need  have more room then it does when inlet unset .. So when you pull the back trigger , the main spring is forced up so as to apply pressure . If you did not plan for that  and simply inlet the trigger , un set , then  your plate is actually going to move up in the inlet as the spring moves . Which is ok  because you can simply shim the back of the plate.

Quote
Second issue:
During the settling in of the trigger plate, somehow a gap was created at each end of the trigger plate. I outlined the trigger plate with an exactoknife and started chiseling away within the outline. As it was going down it seemed very tight at the ends of the plate, so much so that it was difficult to get the plate in and out and I was afraid that it might be so tight that it would peel a piece of wood off when taking it out. So I took a chisel and took a hair off of each end. This seemed to help, but the further I settled the plate in the wider the gap on the ends widened. I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but it happened. I guess there could no better place to mess up the inletting than on the ends of the trigger plate because the flaw will mostly be covered by the trigger guard.

 Frankly it’s a non issue  unless your working with a trigger plate that’s not going to be covered by the guard .
 There however is a few rules which keep one from doing what  you did .
a) as you inlet , your inlet must be tight . that’s a given  but its should not be so tight you have to drive the part down  into the inlet .  While  one would think   do so woul produce a proper inlet . It doesn’t for  parts that may need removed.  What will happen is the stock is going to swell alittle in the finishing process  and you wont be able to get the parts back in or out . Proper inletting is slow business . Sometimes it  seems like what’s being removed is nothing at all
b)  think about what you have  been given  and how that can be used without taking away anything .
 Now this may at first not make since .   But what it means is that  your trigger plate is giving you all you need to inlet it without  doing what you did so as to be able to pry the trigger plate out .

 So look at your photos of the  triggers as they are inlet . What do you see  that can be used ?
 Take note that   when you remove the main spring  screw , you now have a threaded hole . Simply take another bolt of the same thread and screw it into the Trigger plate . Not only will this help you lift the plate in and out ,but if you cant lift it  you can turn the screw in , thus applying upward force that pushes the plate out .
 Next  is that your missing your back screw hole in the trigger plate . You can drill that   hole in the plate  and thus give you another point that you can apple leverage .
c) later down the road when you have drilled and tapped the Tang screw , that tang scre can then be screwed into the trigger plate from the bottom so as to help you get the plate out . But again if your inletting of this part is correct , the fit will be clean and the part will be able to be removed with very little pressure

Quote
Which leads me to the third issue.
As you can see I didn't properly plan ahead the trigger guard. The front of the trigger plate is right where the front lug of the trigger guard needs to be. What I should have done was while laying out the outline of the trigger plate I should have checked the placement of the trigger guard, but I didn't do that so now I have to deal with it. I'm just not sure how to do that. I could cut off the trigger plate so it doesnt interfere with the trigger guard lug and plug the inletted space with a piece of maple that I don't have, or since the area will be covered with the trigger guard, I could glass bed it, which I do have. I am definitely open to other suggestions..

 first let me say this . NO GLASS BEADING . don’t even for one second think of it as an option . IMO glass bedding should only be considered as a final consequence of accepting defeat  for a very bad mistake .
 But then one also needs to  be able to realize when they made a mistake
 What makes you think you made a mistake ?
Should you have planned it out and cut the trigger plate back alittle ?
 Yes .
 But you did not . But I submit to you that  what you did was not a mistake in that its something that needs to be fixed  all you did was make alittle more work for yourself . Which IMO isn’t a mistake
 Think of it like this . You were given a map to drive to a location you had never been before .  So you follow the map and its directions and  thus get to your destination . Once your there you then see that   it would have been a lot faster if you just followed one road . Thus drove strait to the location  without having to take all the side roads .

Did you make a mistake ? NOPE .  Not yet anyway . What you did was gain experience  from looking at  the over all picture from a different point of view . Which in turn will benefit you the next time your driving to that location .
 This is the same thing  

 The only thing that’s changed in this situation is that instead of  inletting the  pin tab of your trigger guard  down into wood , your now going to have to inlet it through the Trigger plate  and  carry it on down into the wood .
 IE no mistake , just a change in the  make up of the situation .

The only real mistake you may have made is if you did not consider how your tang  bolt is going to come through . Double check that to insure it will miss the trigger and the front trigger spring . If it will your then fine

 So  what I would do is  mark the mounting tab  location on the metal of the trigger plate . Make sure that the trigger will set center just as you other wise . Scribe closely around the tab. Now take a small drill bit that’s smaller then the width of the table  and drill out  the inside of the area . Once that’s done , come back with a needle file and square up the hole to the point that the TG mounting tab  fits nicely through the plate .
 If you have a jewelers saw  you can also just drill a small hole at each end and then cut out the  area . Then clean up with a file so that the TG tab will slip nicely through

 Now in some cases the tab will split the plate . IE 1/2 In the plate , ½ in the stock . In that case you  make a nice  notch  to allow the  tab to fit through .

Also Note that for the most part , these tabs  are a lot bigger then they need to be . What they are is casting spurs’  that are located  so they can be used as mounting tabs. They don’t really ne to be more then about an 1/8 inch thick and ¼ wide . As such in some cases they can be trimmed down so as to clear a trigger plate

Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2014, 11:21:05 AM »
studying your last photo  are you sure you placed the trigger set correctly ?
 the lock will fire  by pulling the fron trigger when the triggers are un set  and fire when the triggers are set right ?.

Offline 4-Liberty

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2014, 12:12:41 PM »
I inlet the trigger plate with the triggers set and unset. I used inletting black on the inside trigger mechanism and spring/screw. I pulled both triggers to see where it was rubbing on the mortise and then shaved away the black. There was no need for me to remove any in the spring/screw area of the mortise because no color transferred in that area.

That's great advice about using the screw holes to help remove a tight trigger plate. There was a couple times where I was wondering if i was going to get the plate out. I will definitely use that advice for next time. :rt th

I did reconsider the location of the trigger plate. With the front trigger unset in my original location, it took an awful lot of force to trip the sear. I played around with it a bit and found that if I move the trigger plate back, the unset front trigger only needed about a 3 lbs pull to trip the sear. So that's what I did. I removed a couple slivers of wood behind the trigger plate and settled it in. I moved it back about 1/8" and this seemed to solve a few issues:
1) It got rid of the gap to the rear of the plate.
2) The sear trips easily both set and unset.
3) I will now only have to cut a small notch in the trigger plate to accommodate the front trigger guard lug, rather than having to create a rectangular hole.
However the gap in front of the trigger plate widened a bit because of this but I don't think it'll be an issue. It's right where the trigger guard lug will be so that's pretty much a non-issue.

So I guess my next step would be to drill the rear trigger plate screw hole and tang bolt hole, or is there something that I'm missing?
TMA Member #174

Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2014, 02:00:26 PM »
nope , if everything is where you want it , now drill the tang screw

Offline 4-Liberty

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2014, 10:16:15 AM »
I just finished drilling and tapping the tang bolt into the trigger plate and the trigger plate screw. Everything turned out pretty good except the unset trigger pull is a little more than I would like, but it's acceptable, and obviously the gap in front if the trigger plate but that'll be covered by the trigger guard. The set trigger works perfectly under a hair pull.






I suppose my next step is tackling the task of inletting the butt plate. This one makes me a little nervous.
TMA Member #174

Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2014, 04:33:41 PM »
looks good . you have done fine  with the other  work . i cant see where you will have any problems with the buttplate .

Offline 4-Liberty

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2014, 12:41:56 PM »
I delayed the butt plate for a little while because I'm going out to MN this weekend to visit the in-laws, so in the mean time, I decided to go ahead and drill and tap the flash hole. I think it turned out pretty good!




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Online Hank in WV

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2014, 04:59:32 PM »
4-liberty, what is that notch in the blade of your square for? Or is that possibly a trick the camera is playing with the light?
Hank in WV
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Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2014, 05:38:12 PM »
looks good liberty .
 Hank , the notch in the square is do that it can be used to mark pin locations on each side of the stockH

Online Hank in WV

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2014, 08:01:33 AM »
Thanks Capt, I've not seen that done quite like that before. Sorry for the late response.
Hank in WV
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Offline melsdad

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2014, 09:29:01 PM »
Has there been any progress on this rifle? I sure enjoyed reading from the start till the last post. This would be a great thread if followed through till the end!!
Brian Jordan
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Offline Captchee

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #88 on: July 09, 2014, 05:03:17 AM »
I have not heard anything in some time

Offline snake eyes

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Re: Jacob Dickert Build Progress
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2014, 03:56:18 PM »
Quote from: "4-Liberty"
I suppose my next step is tackling the task of in letting the butt plate. This one makes me a little nervous.
4-Liberty,
                Hope you are still working on the build.....How you doing on it ????
snake-eyes  :shake
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