Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Accoutrements => Topic started by: RobD on September 16, 2017, 08:23:01 AM
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.40 rifle on the left ~ .54 rifle on the right
bags, horns, ball boards, patch knife handle, and fixed powder measures are all to blame on me. :)
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more stuff ...
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Seems like a lot of "dangly" things to get hung up in the brush, or are these setups for target shooting?
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Seems like a lot of "dangly" things to get hung up in the brush, or are these setups for target shooting?
correct on both accounts - that's why the thread's title.
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Good looking bags, Rob
For the past eight or ten years I have been a dedicated "out of the pouch" shooter.
When at the range I used to put a lot of stuff on the bench, or near the bench, then work off the bench.
I still take the Range Boxes, but about the only thing that gets laid on the bench any more is sometimes the ramrod....and then there's even times when I notice I put the ramrod on the bench and I will put back on the rifle, where it rightfully belongs.
Folks have always asked me the same question, "ain't that a lot of stuff to be hanging off you in the woods??"
The answer is no, not at all.
Not even in thickest Pacific Northwest woods. In fact, those "thick woods" is a very good reason to have things easily accessible, albeit I don't always carry a hawk when hunting, unless I'm Elk hunting, when a good stout Hawk or Axe is needed to bust that pelvis.
My favorite old hunting bag has "stuff" on the straps too, even a patch knife on the back of the bag, but that "patch knife" gets used for about everything from cutting patches to eating, while that flat horn lays perfectly on the flap of the bag.
After about 40 years of use, I wouldn't have it any other way....but that is just me.
I have other bags, and I've tried different things, as I'm sure all of us have.
But one seems to get that certain feeling when you come across that 'just right' combination.
As with everything else in life, Your Mileage May Vary considerably depending on your own preference.
(https://i.imgur.com/uIzEvOl.jpg)
Uncle Russ...
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Uncle Russ, about the only "dangly" thing I see there which could be done away with is the ball starter. I use the pommel of my knife to push the ball into the barrel, then it gets seated with the RR. It sure looks weather worn compared to those beautiful bags Rob has, but that comes with age. I'm sure you have a bunch of scratches and wrinkles which weren't there when you were a pup; I know I sure do. I guess it adds character! :lol sign
Here's mine.
~WH~
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I've thought about using the pommel of my knife to push the ball into the barrel, I see this done often. My problem is that I've loaded the same for over 40 years, I don't if I could make that transition... Wife says "I'm set in my ways..." :P :)
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All, Out-of-pouch reloading took a bit of getting used to for me. I.e., I sometimes forgot to pack an item and then regret it later. :Doh! Since I have both flintlocks and cap locks, with different pouches for each, I find it helps to make a checklist of "necessities"for each and actually mark off the needed items :o before heading to the range or a woods walk. You'd be surprised how many folks forget basic stuff like the proper size RB, patching, caps, nipple wrenches cleaning jags, etc. A through list carefully followed saves a lot of time and embarrassment at a woods walk or possibly a missed shot or follow up when hunting.
Here's a pdf of the checklist I use for my flintlocks, both rifle (.54cal.) and trade gun (20ga.) Feel free to use and/or modify it to your heart's content:
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All, Out-of-pouch reloading took a bit of getting used to for me. I.e., I sometimes forgot to pack an item and then regret it later. :Doh! Since I have both flintlocks and cap locks, with different pouches for each, I find it helps to make a checklist of "necessities"for each and actually mark off the needed items :o before heading to the range or a woods walk. You'd be surprised how many folks forget basic stuff like the proper size RB, patching, caps, nipple wrenches cleaning jags, etc. A through list carefully followed saves a lot of time and embarrassment at a woods walk or possibly a missed shot or follow up when hunting.
Here's a pdf of the checklist I use for my flintlocks, both rifle (.54cal.) and trade gun (20ga.) Feel free to use and/or modify it to your heart's content:
Maven, that pdf check list is a good idea! :bl th up
About the only time I will take my shooting box to the Range is when I have to zero a muzzleloader (like last Friday) 'cause it has my files and drift punches in it, and "supposedly" stocked up with patch and ball... However, I fell short last Friday - I didn't have the .445 balls stocked in my shooting box (well I had 2), the others were .440's in the box. All my other .445 balls where in bullet blocks on my shooting bags, and setting in boxes on my work bench back in my shop. It worked out for me however (I got lucky) as the rifle I had with me seemed to like the .440's... :bl th up
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I've got everything in my range box but the kitchen sink, but it's sure heavy enough without it. Which reminds me, I think it's time to remove some items from it.... As for the check list, I find it really works if you pay attention to it and fill your pouch accordingly. Funny story about why you may need a list: A well known local ML builder showed up at one of our woods walks several years ago, but soon discovered he had only enough powder for maybe 3 shots. Needless to say, he left a bit early and chagrined even though powder was freely offered: Maybe he forgot other stuff too? Need I say more about a list?
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I'm a greater appreciator of lists. After a gazillion camping trips :*: with and without boy scouts I've developed a two page, small print list that I use on every trip. No more thinking about what I have that I might want to bring. I just go through the long list and cross off what I don't need on a particular trip then pack everything else. I've redone that list multiple times as equipment wears out or changes or I find another just-gotta-have-it item.
Anyone want to offer up a list for their range box?
And, since I've been thinking of constructing one for myself, pictures would be greatly appreciated?
Maybe even a pointer to a good design for a wooden range box.
To build a good range box with my limited BP experience, I need all the advice I can get. :pray:
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As handy as a Range Box is (when I properly stock mine) in all honesty, I truly prefer to load from my horn and pouch. I just like the convenience of loading from the bag, and I like the feeling of the old history of it before - trains, planes, and automobiles. I just feel it gets me closer to the era of history I enjoy... Again, a Range Box is handy at times, but for the most part it's just not for me. :shake
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Joe,
I surely do agree with you.
Years ago, I put together a range box containing all sorts of plunder. A couple of cans of different granulation powder, a spotting scope, different size round ball, patches of various thicknesses and diameters, spare nipples, jags and ball pullers in all the calibers I might need, and a whole lot of et cettera. Then after I carried it to the range a couple of times, it wound up sitting in my garage forever. Not for me, either. What a waste of time, money and energy. Went strictly to the pouch and horn and a spare can of powder and a spare box of RB carried in the car, and life was good.
I guess the range box is OK for those who want those sorts of things, but I'll pass. And of course, YMMV!!!
John
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Joe,.... sounds like we do similar things. :bl th up
Fact is, since 1969 when I bought my first muzzleloader I've never owned/had a "range box" (per sae), just my shootin' bag and a haversack containing a few tools and sometimes a note pad and a pencil when I'm shootin' paper at my range.
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This is a great topic, with I think no absolute anwear. The club I shoot with, changes the format every month but most always three diferent scenarios, rifle, pistol, hawk or tradegun, rifle, novelty, etc The woodswalk is always shot out of the bag even though we have small loading tables sporatically located throughout the woodswalk. And the novelties are a diferent area but still only have a large wire spool as a table so most eveyone shoots out of the bag there too.
For me it is still evolving, I am about to cone a rifle with very strict testing before and after aiming to eliminate the short starter once and for all. :lol sign but it gives me a very high pucker factor thinking of doing all of my rifles coned.
The range box is mostly only for when I am shooting from a bench, testing loads, sighting in, etc but I do occasionally have it in the back seat of my truck in case I forget to put something in one of my bags, which like I said is ever evolving.
I myself am always hesitant to have stuff dangling only for the reason I dont want to lose things that have sentimental value. So I ask the danglers, have you ever lost stuff, whether it be because of brush stags, loose fitting of whatever.?
Also, I do need more horns and bags as I aim to have each for every long arm. Again, grtting closer :toast
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ridjrunr,....I can't recall ever losin' somethin' out of my shooting bags or haversack when out'n about.
But I frequently misplace things and can't find them when workin' on various projects. (if that counts :laffing) :bl th up
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As a longtime dyed in the wool "dangler" the ONLY thing I can ever recall loosing was the fiddle plug for my powder horn, that happened years ago when it was 'stylish' to remove the plug with your teeth, and pour your charge.
Since that time I have secured that plug to the horn with a short piece of sinew, and I have shortened the front straps on all my horns so the horn spout is always pointed up.
I love the idea of a thumb start, a smooth follow thru with the ramrod, followed by a bounce or two of the rod to insure proper seating of the PRB.....a dream of mine, for sure.
But, I just ain't found the right components to do this with, and still deliver the accuracy I insist on...and I've been looking hard for that just right combination for quite some time now.
Uncle Russ...
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So I ask the danglers, have you ever lost stuff, whether it be because of brush stags, loose fitting of whatever.?
I don't recall loosing anything. Really the only time I have anything dangling from my bag is when I'm shooting at the Range by myself or with others, but when I'm not,,, all the dangling stuff is in the top of the bag or tucked down a sleeve in the bag, except for one 5 ball bullet block that always hangs on my bag's strap. Good leather and sinew is tougher and more durable then a person might think.
You know, (and this is straying from the topic) there is one event I would like to see incorporated at traditional muzzle loading shoots, and that is a timed event reloading one's ML after they have taken a shot, but their shooting bag must be set up in the manner it is always carried out on the hunt, and no modern speed loaders allowed.
Can you imagine what we all could learn from an event like this. Example; what's the first thing we do once we take a shot at a deer? We watch the deer and start the reloading process just in case a second shot is needed. I know I do, and I try my best if that deer didn't go down immediately - I watch that deer while I reload and for the most part I'm doing that from feel from knowing how my shooting/hunting bag is set up. Just food for thought... :shake
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"out-of-pouch" is for woods walks, and it's the way i practice at the range. the more offhand practice, the better, sez i. offhand is where it's at, not off a bench. bench rest is pretty much mandatory for setting sights and developing a load. the real shooting is in just using yer hands to aim and fire, the way it was for the most part, back in the day.
whilst there is a tackle box of goodies in the vehicle or at the sign-in table, it pays to have accoutrements at the ready when yer taking 10 to 30 shots on the trail. hence the danglies.
if i were hunting with a firelock there would be NO danglies, just a small bag with a small horn attached (or inside the bag), along with the few other major necessities.
:*:
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I agree with ya'll and perhaps I should try some out of the bag articles, a loading block to start with.
Ohio Joe, in our rotation of monthly shoots, there are a few scenarios that are timed annd sometimes its a two man event, like two man teams. Thats usualy a ten target knockdown, great fun and one reason I like blocks, for me its quicker.
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A loading block is a good place to start, and that team shoot sounds like a lot of fun, ridjrunr! :bl th up
As usual, all this talk about shooting has me chomping at the bit to get out tomorrow and do some shooting. Kind'a leaning towards shooting at one of my eight inch gong's tomorrow at 50 and 100 yards with the ol' Pennsylvania .45 cal flintlock. Another voice in my head is saying "take the .40 cal cap lock" while yet another voice is saying "take the .50 cal Lyman's GPR flintlock."
I figure I got plenty of time to get my Rendezvous Rifle zeroed really good since I don't need it until July 2018,,, but then again the smart move might be to do just that,,, or just start working on that Lyman .54 GPR kit... There goes that little voice in my head again... :Doh! :laffing
In any event, I'll do something! :hairy
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Yes, never lacking projects either!! July 2018, are you talking about the High Plains?
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Yes, never lacking projects either!! July 2018, are you talking about the High Plains?
Chadron Fur Trade Days in '18, ridjrunr.
Where is High Plains being held in '18?
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By corn dodger station KS,june 16-23 ,
planning on that one.
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http://www.talking-bear.com/180616hprr.htm
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By corn dodger station KS,june 16-23 ,
planning on that one.
I'm planning on that one too. :hairy
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We call bag shooting "off the body" here in Oz and I love it!!! :applaud
I get a lot of funny looks from the guys at the range though as they are 99% bench shooters....
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Mike, how is the traditional side of muzzle loading shooting down there in Australia? Popular, semi popular? Have they tried to repackage it yet with the plastic stocks and stainless steel barrels? Just curious if the traditional folks are going strong without the influence of that "modern muzzle loading stuff" they've been trying to pawn off on us traditional muzzle loading folks here in America for over the last 30 years? :shake
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Mike, how is the traditional side of muzzle loading shooting down there in Australia? Popular, semi popular? Have they tried to repackage it yet with the plastic stocks and stainless steel barrels? Just curious if the traditional folks are going strong without the influence of that "modern muzzle loading stuff" they've been trying to pawn off on us traditional muzzle loading folks here in America for over the last 30 years? :shake
Hey Joe,
In-line muzzle loaders are non existent in my state (Western Australia) as the police can't classify them so therefore you can't supply a lawful reason to possess one.
So the traditional muzzle loading scene is pretty secure, the problem we have is an aging membership. As well as a muzzle loading rifle is classed as a high powered rifle so you need to license it like its a cartridge fed, bolt/leaver action rifle.
Saying that please don't get into a "Australian gun laws are stupid" debate because i'm already pretty pissy on the whole subject, as i just got a new flintlock rifle and its going to cost in excess of $200 just to licence the damn thing.... :o
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Thanks for the info, Mike. We'll let it rest and get back to the topic at hand, "out of pouch" :shake
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I once lost a nice little brass primer during a deer hunt. Later got another same size and very similar.
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if i lost my priming horn i'd have lost my powder horn. :laffing
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So on numerous occasions I have read where someone had their rifle, a bullet bag and powder horn. Nothing about a pouch, shooting bag, haversack, or even the ubiquitous possibles bag. And really, if you have a patch box on the rifle you don't need anything else. With patches, a cleaning jag and/or worm, a spare flint and maybe a ball puller in the patch box, a bag of round balls on your belt or in your sash, and priming from the horn and you have everything to shoot and clean the rifle. For a long sojourn in the wilderness a possibles bag would be handy, especially to carry your tinder box w/ striker and flint and whatever else you need to be comfortable, but probably not a necessity.
Even in the late 1800s Nesmuck trecked across several hundred miles of Michigan wilderness with his Billinghurst rifle, (IIRC) 6 cartridges which I assume would be paper holding powder and ball, and a small ruck sack for his hatchet, cooking gear etc. I believe that's all he had; I'll have to reread my copy of Woodcraft to be sure. Anyway, no pouch dedicated to servicing the rifle.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the pouch isn't necessary, and might even be a hindrance on a woods walk or even just a tramp in the woods looking for squirrels. I know that I didn't have a shooting bag for years, just had a rag stuffed in my pants pocket for patching with a small bag of balls, and percussion caps in the cap box on the rifle. It wasn't until I started shooting with the Forest Hills Black Powder Brigade that I bought the Tandy purse kit (which is still my shooting bag) since everyone else had one (shooting bag, not purse).
~WH~