Post by: Detached on March 18, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
I had decided a while back to hire a local gunmaker build for me a custom longrifle. Not sure exactly what I wanted, so I started looking around. Dad is from Kentucky and I live close to the River Raisin Battlefield in Monroe, Michigan. Knowing that Kentuckians fought and died at the battle, I thought I'd like to build a rifle that represents what would've been carried by one of these Kentuckians. As I started my research into the war of 1812, I learned something of great personal interest. I had an ancestor, a 1st cousin 4 times removed to be exact, that was a Kentucky Rifleman at the Battle of New Orleans.
This discovery has led me to change my thoughts. Now I would like to build my rifle to emulate what my ancestor might've carried. Of course, all things being equal I suppose the rifles carried by Kentuckians at the River Raisin were the same as those carried in New Orleans. So, tell me about my rifle.
He was listed as a farmer by trade so not a rich man, and his rifle was most likely a workhorse. I suspect he used it for hunting and protection.
Was it plain, or did it have some decoration? What caliber might it have been? Would it have been built in Pennsylvania, or maybe by that time in Virginia or Tennessee? What school would be typical for the time and place? Would it have brass furniture, iron, or maybe silver? would it have a patchbox, and if so, would it be ornate or plain? Wood or metal? Would the stock be maple?
Maybe this rifle would already be 30 years old by the time he came to use it?
What would the typical Kentucky farmer's rifle look like around 1813?
Any help is appreciated!
Post by: sse on March 18, 2014, 10:28:46 PM
I'm sure some others will come by soon to consider the matter. I have one hunch/option, not entirely sure though. There was a southern style poor boy with parts supplied by a few vendors and reproduced. It was sparsely adorned, iron furniture, convertible to capper, no carving or engraving, some didn't even have a butt plate. Most beautiful none-the-less...
Post by: Detached on March 19, 2014, 08:02:40 AM
Quote from: "sse"
...a southern style poor boy...sparsely adorned, iron furniture, convertible to capper, no carving or engraving, some didn't even have a butt plate. Most beautiful none-the-less...
This is pretty much what I've been thinking. Something in a smaller caliber, like .40 or .45. I would probably use an iron butt plate just to help protect the wood.
Post by: sse on March 19, 2014, 10:56:52 AM
Post by: Fletcher on March 19, 2014, 04:43:58 PM
correct it has to look old. When it was in service a long time ago - it was new - so it looked new !
Sure there may have had some wear, but the owners usually took very good care of their tools since
they were hard to and expensive to replace. If your persona has in mind some hand me down gear
from a relative - then some wear would be understandable.
Post by: mario on March 19, 2014, 06:14:18 PM
The cheapest guns around were trade guns, and they had full sets of furniture. Simple furniture, but a full set of it. We tend to think of folks on the frontiers during the 18th and early 19th centuries as having to make everything themselves, but that is simply not the case. A huge amount of trade goods went to KY/TN, etc. Guns from places like Philadelphia among them.
The best way to determine what they carried is to look at what they carried.
The July/August 2013 issue of MUZZLELOADER has a picture of a rifle built by John Jacob Sheetz on pages 40-41. This rifle was used by a Tennessean AT New Orleans.
Full set of brass furniture, with a quite ornate-looking patchbox.
A reproduction of it was built for the CLA auction last year. Look on the CLA website, they'll likely have info on it.
I would lean towards a simple "Late" Lancaster style rifle, perhaps a .50cal or so.
I also agree with Fletcher. Even in 1815, 1757 and 1779, people bought new stuff.
Mario
Post by: sse on March 19, 2014, 10:00:09 PM
Post by: greggholmes on March 19, 2014, 10:07:16 PM
An excerpt.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0jyS4TIolAU/UypKmJyE-DI/AAAAAAAAIK4/wim9ZNvDnXc/w1974-h3510-no/20140319_185441.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N5Def94HxFU/UypMuHzXyDI/AAAAAAAAILk/EKjyUpnwkC8/w1974-h1110-no/20140319_190003.jpg)
Post by: Detached on March 20, 2014, 07:45:19 AM
Trust me, I have no intention of making my rifle look old or used! My question was meant to help determine the period it might have been built as opposed to wear and tear.
Mario: All good info. I agree, "The best way to determine what they carried is to look at what they carried." That is exactly what I am attempting here. I don't have tons of books or media on the subject. Internet searches turn up a myriad of different guns and some very general statements. I figured that the best people to ask would be those who've studied the subject for years and years. I appreciate your input, please keep it coming. Pictures and links are what I need!
Post by: Detached on March 20, 2014, 07:57:18 AM
Quote from: "mario"
A reproduction of it was built for the CLA auction last year. Look on the CLA website, they'll likely have info on it.
What a beautiful rifle! Period correct and made in KY.
Of course I have no idea what my ancestor's rifle looked like, so the best I can do is choose something he might've used. This rifle is pretty much what I had imagined, less the ornate patchbox. This would be a perfect basis for my rifle.
Post by: Buzzard on March 20, 2014, 09:44:00 AM
Post by: mario on March 20, 2014, 02:03:25 PM
Quote from: "greggholmes"
Muzzle Blasts may 1992 has a good article on the southern mountain rifle.
An excerpt.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0jyS4TIolAU/UypKmJyE-DI/AAAAAAAAIK4/wim9ZNvDnXc/w1974-h3510-no/20140319_185441.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N5Def94HxFU/UypMuHzXyDI/AAAAAAAAILk/EKjyUpnwkC8/w1974-h1110-no/20140319_190003.jpg)
"The earliest known of these dated Southern rifles is 1815; most were built in the 1820s..."
According to this article, the SMR would not be a viable option for the OP's time frame.
Quote from: "sse"
I guess the rifle I was loosely visualizing is referred to by some as a 'barn gun', yet others as a Schimmel. If you google the phrase you'll see what I mean. Now, whether that fits with the OP's scenario, not sure...
As I said before, the concept is post-CW. This, much like other parts of muzzleloader lore, comes from the early 20th century. When the folks that were re-discovering the ML gun looked at the folks in the hills that were still using them, they figured that's how/what/why the folks in the old days (pre-CW) MUST have done it.
Mario
Post by: sse on March 20, 2014, 02:12:03 PM
Post by: Detached on March 20, 2014, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: "Buzzard"
Great question Detached; thinking beyond the gun; was this relative born and raised back east, or right there in Kentucky? That answer might well settle your decision. If he came to Kentuk as a middle aged man, he'd have already own his gun. Born in Kentuk, he'd have bought a SMR when he grew old enough to afford one.
This is more fun than a barrel of mokeys, ain't it?
The cool thing about my surname is that it's fairly unusual, making it fairly simple to trace back. It is in fact so unusual that it's (almost) a given that anyone with that name, especially from the period, is a relative. In this case I was able to trace this person back to my GGGG Grandfather.
The family is Scots-Irish, or Scotch-Irish if you prefer. We've been able to trace my GGGG Grandfather back as far as Barbados, where they immigrated from Ireland. From Barbados they went to the Carolinas, and eventually Kentucky, specifically Wayne County Kentucky. The relative in question was "borned and raised" in Wayne County Kentucky. He is my GGG Grandfather's nephew.
The example rifle provided by Mario is perfect. From the article associated with the rifle:
Quote
By the time of the War of 1812 the “Kentucky Rifle” and the frontiersmen who used it had already captured the imagination of the American public. When the War grew imminent, the danger and perhaps chance of adventure spurred young men who had grown up hearing and reading of the exploits of their elders to volunteer for the War in droves. Fringed hunting frocks, elegant top hats, long knives - and often a fine golden age “Kentucky Rifle” in hand. They marched off to face the old adversaries of their fathers’ times - British, Shawnee, Creek and others, often led by the very veterans they idolized as heroes; men like Isaac Shelby and William Whitley who had first crossed the Appalachians to the Kentucky wilderness 40 years earlier.
What is not readily recognized is the role that early Kentucky gunmakers played in supplying arms to the men who served from the Thames to New Orleans and there is a misconception that “Kentucky rifles were not actually made in Kentucky.” However, by the time of the War of 1812 some of the most prominent, artistic and important schools of southern gunmaking were well established in what is now Kentucky and Tennessee. One of the most prominent early families of southern Trans-Appalachian gunmakers were the Bryans, working in and around Lexington Kentucky at the center of the “Central Kentucky” school of gunmaking. Relatives of the Boones, the Bryan family gunsmiths (William Sr., Daniel, William Turner and Lewis) built distinctive rifles in what we now recognize as the Lexington style in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Like the men who carried them, the Lexington style rifle was an integral part of the close of the eastern frontier and indeed the expansion to the far western mountains.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/07/2013-cla-live-auction-fine-lexington.html
Thus we see that this rifle, or one similar in design and execution, would be a good choice to represent what my ancestor might've carried into battle at New Orleans. It is at the very least no worse a choice than any other rifle of the period.
I see mine with a patchbox, but something more plain. No additonal inlays with the possible exception of the side plate, and no carving. It will be mounted in brass, and most likely browned. It will have a flamed maple stock, but probably a bit more 'working man' than the one made for the auction. It will have a swamped barrel just because I want one, and will be in .45 caliber. The most important thing is that it maintains the beautiful, graceful flowing lines that the original rifle exhibits.
What do you all think? Sound acceptable?
Post by: sse on March 20, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Post by: Hank in WV on March 20, 2014, 05:07:28 PM
Quote from: "Detached"
The cool thing about my surname is that it's fairly unusual, making it fairly simple to trace back. It is in fact so unusual that it's (almost) a given that anyone with that name, especially from the period, is a relative. In this case I was able to trace this person back to my GGGG Grandfather.
While "Detached" is an unusual surname, it certainly doesn't sound Scotch or Irish.
Post by: Detached on March 20, 2014, 05:44:37 PM
Quote from: "Hank in WV"
While "Detached" is an unusual surname, it certainly doesn't sound Scotch or Irish. :lol sign
Truth is I wanted to use Reload but someone already had it. The only thing I could think of on short notice was Detached, coming from the Kentucky Detached Militia, my "Cousin's" (tongue-in-cheek) unit. He served under Colonel Slaughter, (fitting name) who would later bcome governor of Kentucky.
Post by: greggholmes on March 20, 2014, 05:51:05 PM
Post by: Detached on March 20, 2014, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: "greggholmes"
The article says the southern mountain rifle was used in every conflict from 1774 to 1860s. The oldest "dated" was 1815.
Yes, and admittedly the last rifle in the picture, the upper East Tennessee rifle also has my interest. It has fantastic lines.
Post by: Captchee on March 21, 2014, 07:55:42 AM
if you look at the rifle that Kemper produced its not hard to pick out the Lancaster styling’s . but its also not hard to see that things were changing . IE deeper comb nose relief , slimming and less rounded mortises but and trigger guard changes .
Also one should be aware that just because a person was born in a given area , it doesn’t really mean that a gun they carried would have been from that area . Especially if the family had migrated from somewhere else . There are still family ties and pass downs to consider . It takes often times a couple generations for there to be a drastic change in even the simplest of family heritage . Which also includes the tools and how those tools were used . Before there is a real noticeable change .
that’s what Kemper was actually emulating with his rifle in that there was a change happening , it just wasn’t as instantaneous as a lot of folks think .
I also think one should not fall for the idea that POOR means Poor . It didn’t then and it doesn’t now .
If anything there IMO was an even greater since of family respect then there most certainly is today .
So while an item like a rifle , might have been more simply , that doesn’t mean it was plain and without decoration
But anyway . My advise to you is this . Spend a little more time looking at documented rifles from people who lived in that area search out the rifles or depictions of the known rifles from the battle. Then use and common average of what you find . Your looking at having an investment in your rifle do your best to gather as much info as you can .
My bet however is that when all is said and done your going to end up being real close to a Lancaster that’s slimmed way down and has the transitional appearance like Kempers . If not a rifle that’s along the lines of something even older
Post by: RobD on March 21, 2014, 08:30:45 AM
i was in the "poor boy" long gun dilemma last year and that finally got sussed out and materialized as a carolina rifle. this is by far the best long gun i've ever shot or owned and will be handed down to my grandson. take yer time, think it all over well.
(http://i.imgur.com/sdTU6lF.jpg)
Post by: Detached on March 21, 2014, 07:53:06 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
Also one should be aware that just because a person was born in a given area , it doesn’t really mean that a gun they carried would have been from that area . Especially if the family had migrated from somewhere else . There are still family ties and pass downs to consider . It takes often times a couple generations for there to be a drastic change in even the simplest of family heritage . Which also includes the tools and how those tools were used . Before there is a real noticeable change .
Quote from: "rfd"
without any substantial evidence what firearm yer kin shouldered, honestly, it could literally be anything, even a brown bess, who can say for sure? literally any period flinter *could* be representative.
Well gents, as stated in one of my previous posts:
"It is at the very least no worse a choice than any other rifle of the period."
I'm fully aware that I have no idea what he carried and will most likely never know.
Post by: RobD on March 21, 2014, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: "Detached"
Quote from: "Captchee"Also one should be aware that just because a person was born in a given area , it doesn’t really mean that a gun they carried would have been from that area . Especially if the family had migrated from somewhere else . There are still family ties and pass downs to consider . It takes often times a couple generations for there to be a drastic change in even the simplest of family heritage . Which also includes the tools and how those tools were used . Before there is a real noticeable change .Quote from: "rfd"without any substantial evidence what firearm yer kin shouldered, honestly, it could literally be anything, even a brown bess, who can say for sure? literally any period flinter *could* be representative.
Well gents, as stated in one of my previous posts:
"It is at the very least no worse a choice than any other rifle of the period."
I'm fully aware that I have no idea what he carried and will most likely never know.
how cool is that?! lotsa great choices abound and all will be winners!
Post by: mario on March 21, 2014, 09:02:38 PM
Quote from: "greggholmes"
The article says the southern mountain rifle was used in every conflict from 1774 to 1860s. The oldest "dated" was 1815.
I can write an article saying the AK47 was used in every conflict from the Seminole Wars to present day. But if the earliest "dated" AK47 is from 1947, than my statement is wrong until proven otherwise. Best case scenario, it's a guess.
Quote from: "Detached"
I see mine with a patchbox, but something more plain. No additonal inlays with the possible exception of the side plate, and no carving. It will be mounted in brass, and most likely browned. It will have a flamed maple stock, but probably a bit more 'working man' than the one made for the auction. It will have a swamped barrel just because I want one, and will be in .45 caliber. The most important thing is that it maintains the beautiful, graceful flowing lines that the original rifle exhibits.
What do you all think? Sound acceptable?
IMHO, even a rifle made for a farmer of the time would have carving. Maybe not very extensive, but it'd be there. Again, the example of the trade guns. Cheapest guns around, but even they had some carving.
Mario
Post by: greggholmes on March 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
Quote from: "mario"
Quote from: "greggholmes"The article says the southern mountain rifle was used in every conflict from 1774 to 1860s. The oldest "dated" was 1815.
I can write an article saying the AK47 was used in every conflict from the Seminole Wars to present day. But if the earliest "dated" AK47 is from 1947, than my statement is wrong until proven otherwise. Best case scenario, it's a guess.Quote from: "Detached"
I see mine with a patchbox, but something more plain. No additonal inlays with the possible exception of the side plate, and no carving. It will be mounted in brass, and most likely browned. It will have a flamed maple stock, but probably a bit more 'working man' than the one made for the auction. It will have a swamped barrel just because I want one, and will be in .45 caliber. The most important thing is that it maintains the beautiful, graceful flowing lines that the original rifle exhibits.
What do you all think? Sound acceptable?
IMHO, even a rifle made for a farmer of the time would have carving. Maybe not very extensive, but it'd be there. Again, the example of the trade guns. Cheapest guns around, but even they had some carving.
Mario
you didn't read the article.
"Baxter Bean John Bull and a few other builders were prone to inlet a silver plate into the barrel onto which the name of the owner, the maker and occasionally, a date was inscribed. The earliest known of these dated southern rifles is 1815"
he doesn't say the southern rifle only dates to 1815, only the oldest ones by these makers.
Post by: Captchee on March 22, 2014, 07:51:25 AM
Im also thinking that’s what Mario is also saying ..
But lets say im off base with that and we used the 1815 date . It still makes such a rifle rare even for that time . Would that not then raise the question of how a poor farmer managed to come up with it ?
This is one of the problems we run into when we use an earliest known date for an item .
A) the date is fluid as there could be some earlier OR the actual maker date could be later which is often the case after pier review.
B) why the sudden drastic divergence ways from common style ??
While the 1815 date could be acceptable for a possible early start date a period of faltering in the quality of northern made rifles , thus a drastic decline in numbers of gunsmiths , it still would be rather and could also be a stretch .
This is why so many period people base their information on a common item for a time vs. a rare for a given date .
Detached
Have you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?
Or following the persons direct family line
The reason I ask this is because often time such items as guns were passed down generation to generation. You may just find a photo of the rifle in another family members hand OR even the case were another family member may actually still own that rifle , know of it or had heard of it . Thus possibly giving you a way to trace it , find it or at least give you some idea of what it was . You might just get lucky
Post by: Detached on March 22, 2014, 08:45:41 AM
Quote from: "Captchee"
Detached
Have you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?
Or following the persons direct family line
The reason I ask this is because often time such items as guns were passed down generation to generation. You may just find a photo of the rifle in another family members hand OR even the case were another family member may actually still own that rifle , know of it or had heard of it . Thus possibly giving you a way to trace it , find it or at least give you some idea of what it was . You might just get lucky
Man, I had a whole response typed up and submitted then realized the bulk of captchee's post was directed at the rifles posted by greggholmes.
At any rate, I am looking for pictures. I do have the family tree nailed down, have found a few pics, mostly form the Civil War.
What's the worst that could happen? I'll build the rifle, and then if I find a pic in a few years and learn i was totally wrong, I'd just have to build another!
Post by: RobD on March 22, 2014, 08:54:19 AM
Quote from: "Detached"
...
For all I know he used the same gun his father did in the Revolutionary War, or maybe he bought a brand new rifle before he left, or maybe his stock was broken and he picked up a musket on the way, eh? There is no way to cover all of the contingencies.
...
exactly. you basically have carte blanche to pick most any rifle from at least as far back as the F&I and then forward. yer kin could easily have used most anyone's long gun ... you've researched and have no idea nor clue, so ... dream up a rifle, stick with yer choice, get it solidified into wood 'n' metal, then show it to us all. way cool!
Post by: Detached on March 22, 2014, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: "rfd"
Quote from: "Detached"...
For all I know he used the same gun his father did in the Revolutionary War, or maybe he bought a brand new rifle before he left, or maybe his stock was broken and he picked up a musket on the way, eh? There is no way to cover all of the contingencies.
...
exactly. you basically have carte blanche to pick most any rifle from at least as far back as the F&I and then forward. yer kin could easily have used most anyone's long gun ... you've researched and have no idea nor clue, so ... dream up a rifle, stick with yer choice, get it solidified into wood 'n' metal, then show it to us all. way cool!
BTW, that's a beautiful rifle you posted. Carolina eh? My ancestor's father came from Carolina...
Oh...crap...
Post by: RobD on March 22, 2014, 09:06:10 AM
Quote from: "Detached"
Quote from: "rfd"Quote from: "Detached"...
For all I know he used the same gun his father did in the Revolutionary War, or maybe he bought a brand new rifle before he left, or maybe his stock was broken and he picked up a musket on the way, eh? There is no way to cover all of the contingencies.
...
exactly. you basically have carte blanche to pick most any rifle from at least as far back as the F&I and then forward. yer kin could easily have used most anyone's long gun ... you've researched and have no idea nor clue, so ... dream up a rifle, stick with yer choice, get it solidified into wood 'n' metal, then show it to us all. way cool!
BTW, that's a beautiful rifle you posted. Carolina eh? My ancestor's father came from Carolina...
Oh...crap...
my carolina flinter was made by tip curtis in tennessee - Highly Recommended!
Post by: Hanshi on March 22, 2014, 03:15:16 PM
Currently, I'm having a Tn rifle built in .32. A poor boy? Definitely. After asking lots of questions about early Appalachian rifles and being assured it would be authentic or at least close to HC/PC (actually not an issue for me), it has brass mountings, a toe plate and swamped barrel. So I can completely understand and connect with the main goal of having something that "fits" one's desires at the expense of taking liberties with authenticity. The swamped barrel apparently being a carry over for the earlier builds even though modern T&F tubes have generally more T&F than the originals.
Many of the "backwoods" builders were trained in the east and were familiar with the Pen styles. But sometimes materials were recycled or were in short supply and most folks were quite light-in-the-wallet. The guns were arguably built not for style but for providing a quality arm for the common man. Also it seems to be more difficult to ascribe particular SMR to particular builders. Might be wrong but I see a lot more generic qualities here than in Pennsylvania rifles.
Post by: Detached on March 25, 2014, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: "Hanshi"
Currently, I'm having a Tn rifle built in .32. A poor boy? Definitely. After asking lots of questions about early Appalachian rifles and being assured it would be authentic or at least close to HC/PC (actually not an issue for me), it has brass mountings, a toe plate and swamped barrel. So I can completely understand and connect with the main goal of having something that "fits" one's desires at the expense of taking liberties with authenticity. The swamped barrel apparently being a carry over for the earlier builds even though modern T&F tubes have generally more T&F than the originals.
This is the same camp I'm in. Mario stated it best when he said my relative wouldn't be the one shooting it, so make sure to get something that I'll be happy with.
Reading my first post, I am looking for something that emulates what my relative might have used. I am not a reenactor. I am not concerned with someone dissing me or the gun because of some detail added or deleted. For my money, the tie to a Kentucky gunmaker and style, in a period that is correct (late 17-early 18 per the article), is as important to me as anything else.
Post by: RobD on March 25, 2014, 08:42:17 AM
Post by: Detached on March 25, 2014, 09:05:57 AM
Quote from: "rfd"
yer asking for advice and so here's mine - give a shout to tip curtis and have him make ya a "po' boy" carolina .45 flinter. i guarantee you will not be disappointed.
Good advice! I doubt I'd be 'dissapointed' with much of anything!
I am in the fortunate position to live about 8 miles from Bob Elka. I think there may be an opportunity for me to participate in the build, so it's kind of a given this is where I'll be going.
Post by: Detached on March 25, 2014, 09:47:40 PM
Post by: Detached on March 31, 2014, 07:55:51 AM
Kentucky Gunmakers of the Muzzle Loading Era 1775-1900 by Shelby Gallien
Specifically about makers IN Kentucky during this period.
After meeting with my builder he concurs with you folks who said a poor boy is too late. He also thinks some of the features on the CLA rifle are too late.
Post by: Detached on April 14, 2014, 01:15:37 PM
So, I sent an email to the Wayne County Kentucky Historical Society asking about my relative. They wrote back and asked for my mailing address, said they have stuff to send!
Regarding the previous suggestion that I need a photograph...true, but photography wasn't invented yet!
Post by: Captchee on April 14, 2014, 01:17:15 PM
Post by: Detached on April 14, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
LMAO, No detacted they were not . the photo graph i was speaking of would be a later one of a family memeber where the gun maybe in the background
Nice recovery!
I also ordered the Kentucky Gunmakers book from the author. Can't wait to peruse it!
Post by: Captchee on April 14, 2014, 03:57:59 PM
Quote
Have you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?
Post by: Detached on April 16, 2014, 07:21:39 AM
Quote from: "Captchee"
:shock:had to double check what i said
QuoteHave you dug deep enough in your family history to possibly start collecting late 19th century photos ?
LOL! Yeah, kind of funny. It didn't even occur to me until later!
Not even a daggone tintype!
Post by: Detached on April 25, 2014, 02:05:01 PM
Anyway, yesterday I received some documents in the mail from the Wayne County Kentucky Historical Society regarding my ancestor who fought at the Battle of New Orleans. Knowing some of his specifics allowed me to do more directed searches, which led to finding this on the internet:
"The United States quartermaster distributed this pay to the Tennessee troops who had preceded them, but withheld it from the Kentuckians. Believing that they would be furnished suitable clothing or pay, blankets, tents, arms and munitions, with reasonable promptness, they left home with little else than the one suit of clothing they wore, usually of homespun jeans....
Not one man in ten was well armed, and only one man in three had any arms at all.’ It is the business of a government to arm its soldiers, but such arms as the Kentuckians took to New Orleans were their own private property. The Secretary of War had promised to send arms and munitions down the Mississippi River for the supply of the Kentucky militia, but through the incompetency of the quartermaster at Pittsburg, whence the arms were to be shipped, these supplies were much delayed in starting, and had gotten only as far on the way as the mouth of the Ohio River on the day when the Kentuckians reached New Orleans, and did not get to that city until many days after all need for them was past. However, the citizens of New Orleans contributed enough of their own private and personal guns and rifles to arm Slaughter’s regiment, about seven hundred men fit for duty..."
Based on that, this rifle has become more of a crapshoot than ever. It may have originated in Kentucky. It could've been a borrowed rifle from someone in Louisiana. The only thing I can say for certain is the rifle was not of military issue.
So, I have decided then to move in a different direction. Instead of trying to build a specific style, this rifle will have attribues of the Kentucky Schools, but be built as a rifle to commemorate the upcoming bicentennial of the end of the War of 1812, and the Battle of New Orleans. I have a couple of ideas in mind that I think will result in a very nice finished piece.
Post by: RobD on April 25, 2014, 02:46:52 PM
Post by: Detached on April 25, 2014, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: "rfd"
given the complete lack of ancestral historical facts, once again and has been mentioned numerous times - YES, it's a pure crap shoot. you should really satisfy yerself, first and foremost. it's all fantasy to a more than fair degree.
True to a point, but to say 'has been mentioned numerous times' discounts my efforts. It could be mentioned a million times but caries no merit until such time as one decides their research is complete, or hits a dead end. I have reached the dead end. My original post was April 18, over a month ago. Since that time I have made every attempt to find more information, even a description that he went off to fight taking his daddy's rifle would be welcomed. As silly as that may sound, it is well within the realm of possibility based on some of descriptions I've read of eyewitness accounts of families who've sent their kin off to war. There are documented cases of specific rifles made in Kentucky that were in the War of 1812.
So, now at this point, yes. Given the complete lack of ancestoral historical facts, it's a crap shoot. But then, since my builder can't even start until this fall, who knows what I may run across by then!
Post by: RobD on April 25, 2014, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: "Detached"
....So, now at this point, yes. Given the complete lack of ancestoral historical facts, it's a crap shoot. But then, since my builder can't even start until this fall, who knows what I may run across by then!
best of luck, yer gonna need it unless a miracle occurs.
Post by: Detached on April 25, 2014, 04:16:28 PM
Quote from: "rfd"
best of luck, yer gonna need it unless a miracle occurs.
Too true, my friend. Then again, when I woke up yesterday morning I never thought I'd be reading his pay receipt for the Battle of New Orleans, written and signed in his own hand, and witnessed by the court clerk. I am still in the process of deciphering it, but have this much:
Know all men by these presents that I HIS NAME
of the county of Wayne and State of Kentucky ____ ______ a
private in _____ _____ ______ Company of the 15th
Shrewsberry Regiment Kentucky Detached Militia in the services of the
United States under the Command of Major General John
Thomas in the year 1814 (have?) for a valuable consideration
to and in (hand?) paid by ________ Shrewsberry _____ ______ (this?) ____
It continues, still working on it.
Amazing what you can find. I saw the general's name somewhere on-line, need to poke around a bit.