Post by: Hooter on December 26, 2016, 01:37:37 PM
Post by: RobD on December 26, 2016, 02:17:02 PM
Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yceuluh_pJE)
... or just dump that mystery powder and start anew. hmm, might be a sub, too (yuk!). :wave
Post by: rollingb on December 26, 2016, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"
well, smokeless burns, REAL black powder explodes ... if you were to lay out a 6" long very slim line of black powder on smooth concrete or rock or slab of plywood and touch one end of that line with a long made up match stick, it would literally explode as in this demo by hickok45 ...It might also be pointed out, that the modern "substitutes" for real black powder, actually BURN much like smokeless powder, but produce less "pressure" similar to that of black powder.
Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yceuluh_pJE)
... or just dump that mystery powder and start anew. hmm, might be a sub, too (yuk!). :wave
Post by: sse on December 27, 2016, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"
Most interesting.
Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yceuluh_pJE)
Post by: Hooter on December 27, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
Post by: sse on December 27, 2016, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: "Hooter"
Thanks for all of the helpful replies. The video was very informative. I poured out a line of 30 and lit it and it quickly poofed with lots of white smoke. I then did it with the goex and had just about an identical reaction. I'm confident the powder is black and will be shooting it this weekend. Thanks guys.
Guess I'm a little bit more cautious, but I wouldn't use it. There is the grain size question mark. If I were to give it a try, I'd start with very small loads!
Post by: Hooter on December 27, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "Hooter"Thanks for all of the helpful replies. The video was very informative. I poured out a line of 30 and lit it and it quickly poofed with lots of white smoke. I then did it with the goex and had just about an identical reaction. I'm confident the powder is black and will be shooting it this weekend. Thanks guys.
Guess I'm a little bit more cautious, but I wouldn't use it. There is the grain size question mark. If I were to give it a try, I'd start with very small loads!
I'm gonna start with a full spout pour of 30 grains.
ETA: or would 30 grains of another size be dangerous in a Ruger old army?
Post by: sse on December 27, 2016, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: "Hooter"
That would be a pistol, and I have no experience with that. Since they are designed for smaller loads, I would think the margin of error for damaging anything would be a tad smaller than experimentation with a rifle.Quote from: "sse"Quote from: "Hooter"Thanks for all of the helpful replies. The video was very informative. I poured out a line of 30 and lit it and it quickly poofed with lots of white smoke. I then did it with the goex and had just about an identical reaction. I'm confident the powder is black and will be shooting it this weekend. Thanks guys.
Guess I'm a little bit more cautious, but I wouldn't use it. There is the grain size question mark. If I were to give it a try, I'd start with very small loads!
I'm gonna start with a full spout pour of 30 grains.
ETA: or would 30 grains of another size be dangerous in a Ruger old army?
Post by: rollingb on December 27, 2016, 07:11:50 PM
Quote from: "Hooter"
30 grs. of FFFG black powder is pretty typical for pistols (NOT including the brass-framed imports),.... and the Ruger Old Army is a heavy build firearm compared to the imports/replicas.Quote from: "sse"Quote from: "Hooter"Thanks for all of the helpful replies. The video was very informative. I poured out a line of 30 and lit it and it quickly poofed with lots of white smoke. I then did it with the goex and had just about an identical reaction. I'm confident the powder is black and will be shooting it this weekend. Thanks guys.
Guess I'm a little bit more cautious, but I wouldn't use it. There is the grain size question mark. If I were to give it a try, I'd start with very small loads!
I'm gonna start with a full spout pour of 30 grains.
ETA: or would 30 grains of another size be dangerous in a Ruger old army?
I don't think you have much to be concerned about with your Ruger, as long as you're NOT using smokeless powder, or a fine granulation of black powder like FFFFG (4fG) which is pretty easy to identify 'cause it has almost the same consistency as "sugar".
Post by: Hooter on December 31, 2016, 09:50:16 PM
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 31, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
Years ago I was at a range where a person was shooting an Old Army next to me. It gave off a very loud, sharp report. I asked him what the heck he was shooting. He replied 40 grains of Ffffg GOEX. I next asked him if his health and life insurance was paid up. He didn't get the insinuation. Later came to find out that he was an insurance salesman in town. I did move well down range from him. Easier on my ears and out of the shrapnel range in case things went wrong.
You can put me in the dump the powder that's in the flask and fill it with a known quantity group also.
John
Post by: Hooter on December 31, 2016, 11:30:33 PM
Quote from: "bigsmoke"
File this in the "stupid people sometimes get away with even dumber acts" department.Too late I've already shot half of it. I think it's fffg black powder. It performed just like my goex.
Years ago I was at a range where a person was shooting an Old Army next to me. It gave off a very loud, sharp report. I asked him what the heck he was shooting. He replied 40 grains of Ffffg GOEX. I next asked him if his health and life insurance was paid up. He didn't get the insinuation. Later came to find out that he was an insurance salesman in town. I did move well down range from him. Easier on my ears and out of the shrapnel range in case things went wrong.
You can put me in the dump the powder that's in the flask and fill it with a known quantity group also.
John
Post by: hawkthrower on January 01, 2017, 12:10:44 AM
Get some fresh powder and be sure of your equipment! Even if you've gone through most of what you received!
Post by: Hooter on January 01, 2017, 01:43:21 AM
Quote from: "hawkthrower"
the known and the unknown - With a firearm regardless the vintage I will always choose the known! Know your equipment, know your setup, know your backstop, KNOW YOUR LOAD! - scary post!! at least in my book........ fyi - I know factory loaded ammo is supposed to be "safe" but after reloading as long as I have, as many different arms, and circumstances I have loaded for, and with all of the messing around I've done with getting the "right" load for rifles, pistols, and revolvers I still test fire when starting out even with a new can of powder, I test and work up to accuracy! Using anything I am uncertain of when it comes to my firearms, would Not be a thing I would do!Thanks for your concern. I didnt just load it up and start shooting it. I did some research. Burned some to see how it reacted. And when I shot it I started off with a light load. The powder is good to go. I have fresh powder. But where I live, I cannot just purchase some more. I have to drive 2.5 hours to San Antonio to buy it, or buy 5 plus pounds online. There's no way I'm going to throw it out. Especially after verifying that it's good powder. I purchased it with a black powder gun, in a case with said gun. It's. not like I found it at the flea market.
Get some fresh powder and be sure of your equipment! Even if you've gone through most of what you received!
Post by: Hooter on January 01, 2017, 01:46:47 AM
(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/FBA234E1-1C07-4A69-84FF-FE06044163C2_zps8iaamkyx.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: rollingb on January 01, 2017, 03:33:17 AM
Quote from: "Hooter"
Pic of flask:I like!!!!!! :rt th
(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/rattlesnake505/FBA234E1-1C07-4A69-84FF-FE06044163C2_zps8iaamkyx.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: RobD on January 01, 2017, 06:45:53 AM
Post by: hawkthrower on January 01, 2017, 08:29:28 AM
Post by: Maven on January 01, 2017, 10:00:29 AM
Post by: Hanshi on January 01, 2017, 04:35:26 PM
Post by: Hooter on January 02, 2017, 07:33:44 PM
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 02, 2017, 07:45:27 PM
I have had many of them over the years, most were tack drivers as you say, and a few were, well, less than that.
If it were me, I would get different grips on it so I could hold it better, factory grips are just a bit small for my dainty hand. I have also found that a load of 30 grains Fffg, a lubed wad and a .457 ball were pretty accurate loads.
So, do we call you Two Gun Hooter now or what?
Post by: Hooter on January 02, 2017, 07:51:13 PM
Post by: RobD on January 02, 2017, 07:55:53 PM
delrin jags for pistols is best imho ... but for a closed breech muzzleloader? nope, brass is best of all ... at least for me.
Post by: Hooter on January 27, 2017, 08:30:04 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 27, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: "Hooter"
Ok guys, now I've been shooting these old army's almost every weekend. The majority 30Gn of 3F with Speer lead balls. The guns are quite accurate and a blast to shoot. I've burned through about all of my powder. I am fixing to place an order on powder inc. I noticed they let you mix and match. I am wondering if I could buy 4F and safely shoot it in my old armys. Does anyone have any experience shooting 4F with the ruger old army? Should I just forget about it? Too dangerous? I've shot 50 grains of 3F through them with no issue beside it being difficult to seat the balls. Thank you in advance for any replies.The only advice I can offer is,.... contact Ruger and see what they say.
Post by: Hooter on January 27, 2017, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Yeah I guess I could do that. I will update when I get an answer.Quote from: "Hooter"Ok guys, now I've been shooting these old army's almost every weekend. The majority 30Gn of 3F with Speer lead balls. The guns are quite accurate and a blast to shoot. I've burned through about all of my powder. I am fixing to place an order on powder inc. I noticed they let you mix and match. I am wondering if I could buy 4F and safely shoot it in my old armys. Does anyone have any experience shooting 4F with the ruger old army? Should I just forget about it? Too dangerous? I've shot 50 grains of 3F through them with no issue beside it being difficult to seat the balls. Thank you in advance for any replies.The only advice I can offer is,.... contact Ruger and see what they say.
Post by: amm1851 on January 27, 2017, 10:49:17 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 27, 2017, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: Hooter on January 27, 2017, 10:52:58 PM
Quote from: "amm1851"
Not sure why you would want to shoot 4f as your main charge. As Maven noted above, it would be wasteful, messy and not very accurate. But, on the other hand, they're your guns, not mine, so do as you wish.I am thinking different velocities. I do not see that post above. I'm on my iPhone maybe it's not displaying every post. So 4F will make it less accurate?
Post by: amm1851 on January 28, 2017, 02:25:57 AM
Post by: rollingb on January 28, 2017, 04:05:37 AM
And here's my latest thinkin' on it,....
You say one of the reasons for trying FFFFG, is to increase velocity,.... one thing you gotta remember is, when shooting pure lead round balls, in a fast-twist barrel, with shallow riflings,... the less likely the bore's "lands" will maintain their "grip" on bare, soft, pure lead balls as velocity encreases.
That's why for most cap'n ball pistols,... a "less than" full cylinder of powder is usually more accurate than a full cylinder, and it's higher velocity.
Also,... "leading" of your bore, will become a real concern as velocity is increased,.. since there is no way to put "gas checks" on round balls,... and even if you could,.. pushing them into a cylinder would be impossible when loading. :hairy
Post by: Hooter on January 28, 2017, 10:21:29 AM
Post by: Hanshi on January 28, 2017, 03:12:17 PM
Post by: Hooter on January 28, 2017, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: "Hanshi"
Increased velocities can be had by using either Olde Eynsford (sp?) or Swiss; they're both closer to the sporting pistol powders of the 19th century.Thanks. I was planning on getting some with the mix and match. But I think the Swiss FFFG is out of stock.
Post by: peterh on March 07, 2017, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: "rollingb"
Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"well, smokeless burns, REAL black powder explodes ... if you were to lay out a 6" long very slim line of black powder on smooth concrete or rock or slab of plywood and touch one end of that line with a long made up match stick, it would literally explode as in this demo by hickok45 ...It might also be pointed out, that the modern "substitutes" for real black powder, actually BURN much like smokeless powder, but produce less "pressure" similar to that of black powder. :oops: Got a lot of smart comments, so had to go back to camp and get black powder, took ball out put 1oz BLACK POWDER down the bore then the ball, put fuse in touch hole lit the fuse and then bang, ball went 100 yards to target. Since then I use nothing but 1F black powder and no more shy balls,
Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yceuluh_pJE)
... or just dump that mystery powder and start anew. hmm, might be a sub, too (yuk!). :wave
Post by: Hanshi on March 07, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
I agree about substitute power, it does not have the pressure. Case in point, my 5.8in bore mortar will only shot it's ball with black power. I was at a event doing a live fire demo, ran out of black powder so used 1oz pyrodex got a good bang and lots of smoke but the ball did not leave the barrel, it just made it to the end and rolled back down the barrel. :rotf
Post by: Winter Hawk on March 07, 2017, 08:20:23 PM
This compares to their use of 30 gr. of G-O 3Fg for 858 fps and 40 gr. for 917 fps. C&H 3Fg gave 761 fps and 772 fps. although that last appears suspect to me.
Anyway, they used both powder granulations "back in the day" to develop the loads in the book. C&H was Curtis & Harvey powder, G-O was Gearhart-Owen, which I believe was the successor to Dupont and later became Goex (although my rememberer might not remembering the way it used to).
~WH~
Post by: Hooter on March 07, 2017, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: "Winter Hawk"
My 1975 issue (I don't know if there is a more current one out there) of Lyman's Black Powder Handbook shows ROA loads of 31 gr. of G-O 4Fg with m.v. of 964 fps, and 41 gr. for 1036 fps. with .457 round ball. Also same loads of C&H 4Fg giving 911 fps and 1021 fps, respectively.
This compares to their use of 30 gr. of G-O 3Fg for 858 fps and 40 gr. for 917 fps. C&H 3Fg gave 761 fps and 772 fps. although that last appears suspect to me.
Anyway, they used both powder granulations "back in the day" to develop the loads in the book. C&H was Curtis & Harvey powder, G-O was Gearhart-Owen, which I believe was the successor to Dupont and later became Goex (although my rememberer might not remembering the way it used to).
~WH~
Thanks. Yes the last does seem to have quite a large variance. Maybe I will get some 4F after all. I still haven't placed my order. Work got chaotic, and I'm going into underwriting later this week for a new mortgage, so I'll place my order after since I'll have strangers going through my financials. I may end up with a pound of 4F. Right now we are packing up to finally move into our forever home. But I kept out my favorite old army, in case I find some free time to shoot n clean it.
Post by: Uncle Russ on March 09, 2017, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: "Winter Hawk"
Anyway, they used both powder granulations "back in the day" to develop the loads in the book. C&H was Curtis & Harvey powder, G-O was Gearhart-Owen, which I believe was the successor to Dupont and later became Goex (although my rememberer might not remembering the way it used to).
Thank goodness for written reference, wouldn't ya say?
Uncle Russ....
Post by: Winter Hawk on March 13, 2017, 11:35:33 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Thank goodness for written reference, wouldn't ya say?Amen to that!
~WH~