Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: James Kelly on June 07, 2009, 02:28:38 PM

Title: How many F's?
Post by: James Kelly on June 07, 2009, 02:28:38 PM: As I think about ordering some more Swiss powder, wonder should I get FFg, "1-1/2F" or Fg, for my .40, .45 and .54 rifles?
I understand that Swiss is faster than GOEX or the anitquated du Pont I still use. Apparently Swiss is like a 19th century round ball powder, late 20th century du Pont and GOEX burn slower, appropriate to cartridge guns or ml's using an elongated bullet.

In the old days, Ned Roberts wrote about using Fg, just plain One F, in a .36 cal rifle. I suppose it was shooting picket balls (sugar loaf, elongated bullets) rather than round balls.
These days I hear about loads with FFg or FFFg, but NEVER Fg unless it is a crew-served weapon. With respect, some modern loads seem regarded as unsatisfactory unless they will shoot lengthwise through a buffalo. Useful for you Western guys, but we anin't got none (wild) in Michigan.
All I want to kill is paper & steel targets.
My question is--
Has anyone done a good comparison regarding accuracy versus granulation, in a specific powder brand?
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Post by: FG1 on June 07, 2009, 02:59:59 PM: FFFG will fill the bill
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Post by: Bigsmoke on June 07, 2009, 03:39:45 PM: Fg will probably burn slower and create lower pressures.

The only comparrison I have done was in an 8 bore rifle where 300 gr Fg yielded 1,425 fps and going up to Ffg increased the velocity to 1,535. I don't know if it would have passed lengthwise through a bison, but it did ram a ball lengthwise through a 525 pound African lion. It also dented almost to perforation a NMLRA spec bear silhouette at 200 yards. A hardened bullet would have gone through.

Fg will also produce more fouling.

I see no problem with using Fg in a .54 except for the fouling and you might have to increase the amount of powder somewhat over a Ffg load to get the same results POI and velocity wise that you are getting with a Ffg or Fffg charge.

To answer your last question - no, not me.
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Post by: pathfinder on June 07, 2009, 04:36:43 PM: Tried 1f in a .54 and a .58, and found I had to use more powder and the fouling was incredable, not worth the hassle unless it's free.
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Post by: Three Hawks on June 07, 2009, 06:14:04 PM: I've got a .32, .40, and a .50 all like 3FG Goex. A friend has a .50 and his does better with 2FG Goex. What I draw from this and other's experiences is that each rifle is an individual and will do best with what it likes regardless of what Sir Percival Longtrigger Shootstraight III states unequivocally about the performance of 1.9F McDumple's Best Square Grain Sporting Powder in his World renowned monograph "Thoughts on The 2 Bore Triangular Barreled Flintcussion Ignition Paradox Gun, a Treatise In Four Volumes".

A feller in a club I shoot against uses 2FG in a .27cal flintlock long rifle and does very well indeed.

You'll have to do your own testing and find out.

And trust me, not everyone Out West wants a gun and load which will shoot lengthwise through a bison. If the ball makes holes in the desired place on the target, rings the gong, or kills the deer, it's a good load.

Three Hawks
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Post by: Voyageur on June 07, 2009, 06:15:34 PM: 8) "Doc"
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Post by: No Rod on June 07, 2009, 07:36:14 PM: I use 1.5Fg in my .54 to great effect. Fouling is not bad at all and it is quite accurate. You know Jim you are welcome to try the some before you order. I'll bring it down on Tuesday.
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Post by: bluelake on June 07, 2009, 07:46:53 PM: Out of curiosity, where are you Michiganders getting your powder from?
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Post by: Sir Michael on June 07, 2009, 07:50:10 PM: I use FFFg in all my guns from my squirrel gun that shoots 108 balls/lb. to my Baker Rifle that shoots 20 balls/lb. as well as my pistols that shoot 55 balls/lb. However, I shoot FFg in my smooth bore trade gun that also shoots 20 balls/lb.

Regardless of what powder grade you use the objective is the best accuracy. If you want to shoot Fg powder and you can work up a load you're happy with then go for it.
:toast
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Post by: Wyoming Mike on June 08, 2009, 07:42:01 AM: I'm pretty much the same as Sir Michael. I use 3F in everything from .32 to .58. Generally you use less than you would of 2F for the same performance so fouling is less.

As far as accuracy comparisons from one granulation to the next, I have not heard of any. Some people say that some of their larger caliber rifles prefer 2F over 3F for accuracy but that's as far as I've heard. Every rifle is different and you have to work up a load the particular rifle likes and that can vary from rifle to rifle even with the same granulation and caliber.
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Post by: Longhunter on June 08, 2009, 11:00:15 AM: Quote
Out of curiosity, where are you Michiganders getting your powder from?

I'm fortunate to live 15 minutes from a black powder shop., Spring Brook Trading Post in Eaton Rapids Mi. I get all my BP supplies there
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Post by: sse on June 08, 2009, 01:34:21 PM: Quote from: "bluelake"
Out of curiosity, where are you Michiganders getting your powder from?
I order from Powder Inc.
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Post by: James Kelly on June 08, 2009, 05:56:11 PM: BlueLake--here in Southeastern Michigan, this particular 'gander gets his powder locally either at Kenockee Trading Post, Avoca, for Swiss or GOEX, and at the Flint & Frizzen shop, Clarkston, for Swiss or Scheutzen. I have also dealt with powderinc for Swiss & been quite satisfied.
Appreciate all of the comments.
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Post by: bluelake on June 08, 2009, 06:43:12 PM: Thanks, guys. As my hometown is in the northern part of the LP, there isn't the variety of shops as in the southern part. I may end up just ordering the powder, and paying the attached hazmat fee, shipping, etc., as driving south to pick it up would cost quite a bit more. Unless, of course, anyone knows of a bp shop above M-55...

T
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Post by: No Rod on June 09, 2009, 07:18:00 PM: Quote from: "James Kelly"
BlueLake--here in Southeastern Michigan, this particular 'gander gets his powder locally either at Kenockee Trading Post, Avoca, for Swiss or GOEX, and at the Flint & Frizzen shop, Clarkston, for Swiss or Scheutzen. I have also dealt with powderinc for Swiss & been quite satisfied.
Appreciate all of the comments.

Carbon copy here. I have used all three and been happy with them all.
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Post by: snapcap14 on June 10, 2009, 11:03:01 PM: 3fffg swiss in every thing 44 44-40 54 and 58