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Author Topic: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barrel  (Read 1110 times)

Offline jkelly66

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Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barrel
« on: August 04, 2015, 02:04:38 PM »
Hey guys, newbie here. I’ve recently acquired my first antique firearm and have a question. This gun is a model 1816 Harpers Ferry smooth bore musket in flintlock configuration and pretty nice overall condition. For unknown reasons, somebody in the past cut 6” to 7" inches off the barrel, of course removing the bayonet lug as well. And the stock was shortened several inches too. The barrel measures around 35.5" and should be about 42".

I called around and talked to a couple gunsmiths who have some knowledge of these guns. One particular gentleman who operates out of Harpers Ferry said the barrel “could” be welded and extended, re-browned, etc and the repair made difficult to detect. But then he asked me “why” when the existing barrel could be a war-time modification and was what he considered part of the gun’s history and authenticity. He said he’s seen numerous alterations, many done by Confederates, as they did whatever necessary to keep existing guns usable, or adapt them to a specific purpose. I do not know the gun’s history, but I suppose that’s one scenario. If Confederates did modify this gun, I’d think the “conversion to percussion” change would have been far more likely.

I’ve also considered that perhaps the armory did this when the gun was initially made, and that it never had a full-length barrel. The one feature on the gun that makes me think that is not the case, is that the large end-of-barrel band (with the brass sight) has no pin, screw or clip of any kind holding it in place. It can be slid off and on by hand. I would think that the armory would have devised something to keep the band in place, especially given that this band has the gun’s only site on it.

So I guess my question is, “Should I consider changing this gun to the way it was from the armory, or should it be left as is? And what effect does this have on the value, leaving it as is or adding to the barrel/stock?” I don’t want to make more changes to this gun that further reduces its value. Based on the appearance, patina and pitting on the end of barrel, and the blackening of the stock on that end (from having been fired), I’d say it was cut long ago and has been shot many times since the modification. I guess a new barrel for $250 is always an option, but then I’d have to cut the original stock even shorter, back to the middle barrel band, add a length of stock, and then cover that repair with the middle barrel band.

Any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 03:55:42 PM »
Quote from: "jkelly66"
Hey guys, newbie here. I’ve recently acquired my first antique firearm and have a question. This gun is a model 1816 Harpers Ferry smooth bore musket in flintlock configuration and pretty nice overall condition. For unknown reasons, somebody in the past cut 6” to 7" inches off the barrel, of course removing the bayonet lug as well. And the stock was shortened several inches too. The barrel measures around 35.5" and should be about 42".

I called around and talked to a couple gunsmiths who have some knowledge of these guns. One particular gentleman who operates out of Harpers Ferry said the barrel “could” be welded and extended, re-browned, etc and the repair made difficult to detect. But then he asked me “why” when the existing barrel could be a war-time modification and was what he considered part of the gun’s history and authenticity. He said he’s seen numerous alterations, many done by Confederates, as they did whatever necessary to keep existing guns usable, or adapt them to a specific purpose. I do not know the gun’s history, but I suppose that’s one scenario. If Confederates did modify this gun, I’d think the “conversion to percussion” change would have been far more likely.
I’ve also considered that perhaps the armory did this when the gun was initially made, and that it never had a full-length barrel. The one feature on the gun that makes me think that is not the case, is that the large end-of-barrel band (with the brass sight) has no pin, screw or clip of any kind holding it in place. It can be slid off and on by hand. I would think that the armory would have devised something to keep the band in place, especially given that this band has the gun’s only site on it.

So I guess my question is, “Should I consider changing this gun to the way it was from the armory, or should it be left as is? And what effect does this have on the value, leaving it as is or adding to the barrel/stock?” I don’t want to make more changes to this gun that further reduces its value. Based on the appearance, patina and pitting on the end of barrel, and the blackening of the stock on that end (from having been fired), I’d say it was cut long ago and has been shot many times since the modification. I guess a new barrel for $250 is always an option, but then I’d have to cut the original stock even shorter, back to the middle barrel band, add a length of stock, and then cover that repair with the middle barrel band.

Any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jim
Just my personal opinion,....... but I agree with the highlighted comment from the gentleman out of Harpers Ferry.  :rt th
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Offline snake eyes

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 06:28:59 PM »
:shake [/color]
Erin Go Bragh
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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 07:54:25 PM »
Same what rollingb said.  If that's the way it's lived for so long...accept her like she is and enjoy her.
Al
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Offline Dewey

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 08:42:58 PM »
She has a unique history - keep her as she is!
- Dewey

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Offline jkelly66

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 10:55:34 AM »
Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll just leave this one alone, as suggested. That modification was made ages ago, and really is part of its history. Boy if only this old gun could talk......!

Offline gunmaker

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 01:01:53 PM »
If she's in as good a condition as pic's show----looks like a deer/turkey hunter to me.....Get that old girl back to work....Tom
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Offline jkelly66

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 01:58:34 PM »
Other than the barrel being short, it looks like it could be in a museum. Stock is nice, very light pitting on the metal with the worst of that being on the ram rod. This looks to be a Type II version with the National Armory Brown finish on the metal, and it's even and well done. A buddy let me use his bore scope and it's decent there too. I got some flints for it and tried out the action. Everything worked and it sparked like a roman candle. I'm pretty confident it would operate as intended. I'm itching to shoot it, but still haven't decided for sure. If I do, I'll have to get some info from you guys about the correct powder, how much and thickness of patches to use, etc. The guys at Cabela's didn't have a lot of info for me when I asked them about it. They didn't have any .69 caliber ammo either. I may up end getting one of the new replicas to shoot and just put this one away for safe keeping. But I would sure love to blast a few targets with this thing...just to say I did.

Offline gunmaker

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 02:13:39 PM »
Track wolf has round balls, and in back of the dixie gun works catalog is a huge amount of blackpowder info, service loads & proof loads for most guns.   ....Tom
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Offline jkelly66

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »
Thanks! I'll get one of their catalogs and do some reading...

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 02:40:23 PM »
Cabela's is not a good place to get info on traditional muzzleloaders, nor black powder, nor knapped flints, nor roundballs for your .69 Harpers Ferry.

It sounds as though you've given your Harpers Ferry a pretty good visual inspection, you can also take it to a certified gunsmith to be inspected.  :rt th ),.... prime the pan with a bit of black powder, and touch'er off.  :hey-hey  :happy
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Offline jkelly66

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 06:33:45 PM »
Thanks for the input and feedback guys! I've found a local, reputable gunsmith who is willing to take a look at the ole' gal this weekend. If he thinks it's ok to shoot, I'll make sure and have my wife take a video so I can share it with y'all.

Offline gunmaker

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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 07:05:22 PM »
:hairy
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Re: Question about Model 1816 Harpers Ferry w/shortened barr
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 07:26:48 PM »
We'd like to see the old girl "speak" again.  :rt th
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