Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: sawbones on January 07, 2009, 08:49:27 PM

Title: officers model musket
Post by: sawbones on January 07, 2009, 08:49:27 PM: Howdy all, I'm interested in getting an officers model musket from Matt Dennison at NorthStar West. I already have a trade gun, and I know the quality will be good. I have wanted a military type flintlock for some time now. Anyhow, I was just wondering about the history of that type of gun. I don't know, but I don't think that Brittish officers were issued Brown Bess's? I think they had to provide there own. So they would go to a gun maker and have their own version of a "Bess type" of gun made for them?

I don't know if that is correct or not, so please give me some information on that if you got it. I like the looks of that gun and will probably get one. Just wondering about the history. Thanks, Chuck
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Post by: mario on January 08, 2009, 09:59:28 AM: Depending on rank, British officers could be armed with a fusil/fusee (a light musket of around .65 caliber), a sword or halberd.

By the time of the RevWar, those under the rank of Major were expected to have a fusil. They could carry one that came through the supply line or commision them from gunmarkers.

There are many existing examples of officer's fusils in existence. They range from quite simple to quite exquisite, from fowler-styled (like the one Chambers offers) to mini-Brown Bess copies (like NSW).

I'd love one of NSW's officer's fusils.

Mario

PS- And being a commercial firearm, any civilian with the $ could order one, too.
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Post by: sawbones on January 08, 2009, 11:19:39 AM: Thanks Mario, I was hoping to get your opinion on that.
Could the officers get a regular Bess if they wanted one?
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Post by: mario on January 08, 2009, 11:39:21 AM: Probably. But considering that their job was to command their men and not be shooting alongside them, my guess is that the lighter gun was the norm.

Lots of carrying + little bit of shooting = I want a 6-7 pound fusil instead of a 10 pound musket...

Mario
Title: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: James Kelly on January 09, 2009, 05:41:00 PM: Caywoodguns offers one in 20 ga (.62 cal) and I believe 12 ga (.71 cal) Northernrifleman has one 12 ga Caywood fusil kit available today.
I have a Caywood French Type D trade gun & can attest to the fine workmanship of their finished guns.
What I personally most like is they use Gun Barrel Quality steel barrel blanks. Means the steel has been particularly inspected at the mill to ensure freedom from flaws. Steel Guys say GBQ has to do with the whole steelmaking process.
What anyone would like is that the locks actually spark, for real, and the damn gun goes off. If you shoot a Caywood you may be the only one on the firing line not cursing.
I am s-l-o-w-l-y putting together one of their pistol kits.
Their fusil can be had with a bayonet, nice for sticking a wounded pig but I'm not sure it is historically all that accurate.
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Post by: medbill on January 09, 2009, 09:18:39 PM: I've owned both and I would buy a NorthStar West Fusil again.
Title: Re: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: mario on January 10, 2009, 08:15:50 AM: Quote from: "James Kelly"
Their fusil can be had with a bayonet, nice for sticking a wounded pig but I'm not sure it is historically all that accurate.

Didn't know Caywood had a fusil.

What kind of bayonet are you talking about? Officer's fusil generally had one. Sometimes just a scaled down standard triangular bayonet. Sometimes a short knife bladed one.

Mario
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Post by: Capt. Jas. on January 10, 2009, 10:27:48 AM: deleted
Title: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: James Kelly on January 10, 2009, 10:47:35 AM: look on caywoodguns.com They use a blade style bayonet, not the more conventional triangular.
For my own education, where might one find information on such a fusil bayonet style?
Northstar West makes a beautiful gun, looks more BrownBessy. I have a somewhat lower opinion of 12L14 as a barrel material, than do they.
Title: Re: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: mario on January 10, 2009, 02:58:48 PM: Quote from: "James Kelly"
look on caywoodguns.com They use a blade style bayonet, not the more conventional triangular.

I looked and couldn't find it.

Quote from: "James Kelly"
For my own education, where might one find information on such a fusil bayonet style?

DeWitt Bailey's British Military Flintlock Rifles has a rifled fusil with an accompanying knife-style bayonet (that fits in a trapdoor in the butt).

Col. Henry Bouquet also recommends a "bayonet in the form of a dirk" to equip a regiment for service against Indians, ca. 1764.

Mario
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Post by: mario on January 10, 2009, 03:03:52 PM: I think I found a pic on Northern riflemen.

Is this the Caywood bayonet?

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/nytrekker/misc/Officers20Fusil20Blade.gif)

That is almost exactly the bayonet pictured in Bailey's book.

Mario
Title: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: James Kelly on January 10, 2009, 06:44:08 PM: Yes, Mario, that is the Caywood bayonet. On caywoodguns site must look under "current flintlocks available" to find photo, and that is the 2nd fusil they show. Thanks for telling me about the de Witt Bailey book. My booklist said I had one, but searched all over until I found it stuck in with my Michigan gun stuff. Still looking for that bayonet in it, will look again. Suppose if I ever get the Caywood gun it will be a nice inauthentic .50 or .54 cal rifle w wood patchbox, hard on the purist's (I was once) digestion but I need a shootable rifle with a barrel of appropriate steel grade. Have a Pedersoli flint rifle, quenched & tempered steel, better than used in Trapdoor Springfields, but something squirrely about that barrel. Been shooting rifled muzzle loading guns off & on for over 50 years, couple originals, modern with maybe 4 different make barrels, never had one to string the shots up and down like this one. Or load like there is a tight spot in the barrel. Time is getting too short to mess around with guns that don't work. Rambling.
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Post by: sawbones on January 11, 2009, 01:18:09 AM: I went ahead and bought the musket from NorthStar West. I'm looking forward to getting it.
I like the picture of that bayonet! I may have to get on those as well
Title: Re: English Officer's Fusil
Post by: mario on January 11, 2009, 04:31:24 PM: Quote from: "James Kelly"
Thanks for telling me about the de Witt Bailey book... Still looking for that bayonet in it, will look again.

page 32 in the book.

Quote from: "James Kelly"
Suppose if I ever get the Caywood gun it will be a nice inauthentic .50 or .54 cal rifle w wood patchbox, hard on the purist's (I was once) digestion but I need a shootable rifle with a barrel of appropriate steel grade.

Interestingly enough, the bayonet is pictured with a RIFLED officer's fusil. It's the only rifled one I've come across. 42" RtO barrel, .695" caliber, built by Twigg ca. 1775.

Mario
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Post by: mario on January 11, 2009, 04:32:05 PM: Quote from: "sawbones"
I went ahead and bought the musket from NorthStar West. I'm looking forward to getting it.
I like the picture of that bayonet! I may have to get on those as well

I think you'll be very happy with it.

Mario
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Post by: woodman on January 12, 2009, 12:33:02 PM: You will be extremly happy with the Northstar west. I have never had any problems with mine going bang when asked. Except when I made a mistake.
Woodman
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Post by: mario on January 12, 2009, 06:45:24 PM: Here is a page with original paintings and some original fusils for comparison/info.

http://www.62ndregiment.org/officer_arms.htm (http://www.62ndregiment.org/officer_arms.htm)

Mario
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Post by: B. Miller on January 30, 2009, 09:13:20 PM: I purchase an officers fusil off of NorthStar West this past year and like it. It shoots great and so far has never failed to go off. When I first got it though the cock caught on the half cock notch every time. Matt paid for the shipping cost back to NSW and then back to me. Though disappointed I had to send it back you can't beat service like that. I may have to go back and get the bayonet for it too at some point.

Bruce