Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: crhaden on January 09, 2020, 05:15:28 PM
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Took delivery of a .54 Lyman GPR flintlock from Midsouth a couple days ago. I've been on a black powder hiatus for several years, and previously owned only percussion guns. Got a buddy who's a dyed-in-the-wool, side-locking, smoke-poling, flint-popping hippee, ;D who managed to re-kindle my interest, and here we are. In multiple fits of stupidity, I had previously sold or given away all my shooting supplies, so been getting (mysterious - to my wife) packages in the mail, and putting together a kit.
Swapped out the adjustable rear sight for a fixed blade, seasoned the barrel, cut a new flint pad (I mistook the factory leather for paper), and worked on the trigger a bit. Took it out today and torched off the inaugural shot with satisfactory results. 75 grs of ffg with 4f in the pan, Speer .530 ball with .015 pre-lubed patch. It seated easy enough that I think I'll need to go to a thicker patch, or maybe even a .535 ball for regular work. Ignition of the main charge was almost instantaneous. I got an RMC touch hole liner in the mail today, and it's now installed. Hoping that speeds it up the last little bit for me. The lock seems slow and rough, but it's smoothed out some since I started fiddling with it, and we'll see how it does when I bench it here in another few days. Probably needs some shooting.
Wood-to-metal fit was better than I expected. The finish leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I'm sure I can see some nice grain under the tar-coat Lyman uses. Some sandpaper and a new stain is probably in the works for the upcoming winter doldrums.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. Already lusting after one of Jim Kibler's Colonial kits, but it's currently a 3-month wait, so lucky for me, I should have time to settle into this gun and see how it does over time. Maybe I'll be satisfied enough to forego ordering a semi-custom kit...
:pray:
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Welcome to the site! How did you season the barrel without shooting it? Just curious...
Thanks,
~Kees~
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Welcome to the site! How did you season the barrel without shooting it? Just curious...
Thanks,
~Kees~
Maybe not what everyone considers "seasoning" but I just get the barrel real warm with boiling water (after a thorough cleaning) and soak the bore with a non-petroleum lube (bore-butter). No scientific evidence, but I think it helps.
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Welcome to the "Lyman GPR fold" crhaden... :shake
I've got two of them (.50 cal flintlock & .54 caplock)... My .54 likes the .530 ball with a .019 / .020 spit patch and 75 grains of 2fg Goex in that rascal. I also shoot that same patch and ball combo out of it with 75/80/85 grains of 1fg Meteor Black Powder (from the '70's)...
Sometimes I think I wasted my time build my own rifles as those Lyman's do shoot very well. :toast
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welcome to the TMA forum, curtis :wave
you've got a good rifle, indeed ... i've had Many GPRs, most from kits.
you may already know this, and if so i apologize for mentioning the following ...
the GPR, as with most offshore trad muzzleloaders, employs a patent breech plug. this plug has a constricted ante-chamber behind the real chamber, and it will require a patched brush of about .30 caliber to get in there and clean out for either fouling control or final cleaning.
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anything that screws into the barrel will want to mate with the barrel for life. i always anti-seize lube touch hole liners and breech plugs.
yes, the jim kibler kits are Excellent, here's my colonial .54 that i built last year, and now it's my only trad muzzleloader ...
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Welcome to the TMA, I like the others have had a couple few GPR's in both cap and Rock Lock, because your barrel is easily removed, the simplest and best way to clean that patent breach like new is to... wait for it... remove the barrel , plug the touch hole with a tooth pick, stand on end or hold with a vise, fill it with hydrogen peroxide, let sit 10 to 15 mins, NO LONGER THAN 20 Mins, else the peroxide starts to etch the metal, you'll be amazed at the crap that boils up out of the breach and the barrel, flood it with hot water, swab and oil as normal, I have been using this method for over 20 years, never a problem, the chep peroxide from the dollar store works just fine, I also use this method every for cap locks, Beav
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ah, the beauty of diversity of thought - particularly whence it comes to cleaning out the iron tubes. i'm old school and use nothing harsher than plain tepid tap water. i can get away with doing this because i've learned to be very Very attentive when it comes to maintenance of muzzleloaders, and that means wasting no time in doing a preliminary swab out after the last shot of the day. a few water or moose milk wet patches down the bore, then a patch soaked in pure ballistol or some kinda gun oil, with the rod left in the bbl. the lock gets sprayed with moose milk or wd40, which ever is handiest. back at the ranch, a proper clean with, yup, good ol' hydrogen dioxide (plain tepid tap water) and then an oiling, with, yup, the oiled patch and rod left down the tube. it's all good if it works good over the decades.
i will add - for patent breech plugs it's a Very good thing to get a patch draped brush down and into the ante-chamber, both for cleaning and oiling.
:wave :*:
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ah, the beauty of diversity of thought - particularly whence it comes to cleaning out the iron tubes. i'm old school and use nothing harsher than plain tepid tap water. i can get away with doing this because i've learned to be very Very attentive when it comes to maintenance of muzzleloaders, and that means wasting no time in doing a preliminary swab out after the last shot of the day. a few water or moose milk wet patches down the bore, then a patch soaked in pure ballistol or some kinda gun oil, with the rod left in the bbl. the lock gets sprayed with moose milk or wd40, which ever is handiest. back at the ranch, a proper clean with, yup, good ol' hydrogen dioxide (plain tepid tap water) and then an oiling, with, yup, the oiled patch and rod left down the tube. it's all good if it works good over the decades.
i will add - for patent breech plugs it's a Very good thing to get a patch draped brush down and into the ante-chamber, both for cleaning and oiling.
:wave :*:
Yes Sir, I'm just lazy, I don't do the peroxide thing every month, usual every 2 to 3 months, like you I use the flush method with a wet patch of Beaver Milk ( my own recipe hence the name), and the end of the breech end of the barrel submerged in a jar of the same solution, plunge a half dozen times, then run a bore brush down a couple times, plunge again, then douche with boiling hot H2O, dry patch it out, blow some compressed air through the touch hole or nipple hole to dry the breech, then while the barrel is still to damn hot to touch (thanks God for welding gloves) run a good wet patch or balistol down the barrel and oil the outer with the same, never ever have a rust problem even after some of the guns have sat for a year or more in the safe, and that's here in Western WA, I also use the beavermilk to lube my dry patches with, never have shot a few 30 to 50 round shoots here without ever swabbing the barrel, (none of the bore butter crap ever goes down any of the barrels!
Well crap. I typed my reply on the wrong side of the quote marks, read above (Fixed it...Russ)
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welcome to the TMA forum, curtis :wave
Thank ya, Rob, and others, for the welcome. I think maybe I looked at the build post you made when you did that kit. Very nice! :bl th up
I appreciate all the good advice. I've always just ran a few patches after, and/or during, any shooting sessions, then cleaned thoroughly with something like wonder lube when I'm ready to put it up for a while. I have some .38 cal brushes and swabs that I use to clean the antechamber.
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Every rifle and every shooter have a different need. I found that a 38 caliber pistol bore brush does a good job cleaning the patent breech of my GPR along with a pipe cleaner run through the clean out screw. My rifle refused to group until I got all the bore butter scrubbed out of it.
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Friends don't let friends use Bore Butter.
OK, now, here is my experience. My first rifle was a T/C Renegade, which the first 10 years I had it, I just shot the devil out of it. No idea how many pounds of powder I pored down the bore, but it was a bunch. Many, many pounds. Did I ever clean out the ante chamber? Nope, not even once. Did even a mere drop of hydrogen peroxide ever come in contact with my rifle? Nope, never ever. I used that crap to clean out wounds and such. To clean, I used hot water and liquid dish washing detergent followed with a hot water rinse and WD-40. The bore always looked good, and most importantly, the rifle shot fantastic. Methinks y'all are trying to make this more complicated than need be.
Then, back in the 90's I discovered Ol' Thunder Bore Solvent and Patch Lube and that has been my preferred method of cleaning since then. Fantastic stuff, if you haven't tried it yet, you should.
Of course, I only have about 50+ years shooting black powder guns, so what do I know.
And of course, YMMV.
John
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Friends don't let friends use Bore Butter.
OK, now, here is my experience. My first rifle was a T/C Renegade, which the first 10 years I had it, I just shot the devil out of it. No idea how many pounds of powder I pored down the bore, but it was a bunch. Many, many pounds. Did I ever clean out the ante chamber? Nope, not even once. Did even a mere drop of hydrogen peroxide ever come in contact with my rifle? Nope, never ever. I used that crap to clean out wounds and such. To clean, I used hot water and liquid dish washing detergent followed with a hot water rinse and WD-40. The bore always looked good, and most importantly, the rifle shot fantastic. Methinks y'all are trying to make this more complicated than need be.
Then, back in the 90's I discovered Ol' Thunder Bore Solvent and Patch Lube and that has been my preferred method of cleaning since then. Fantastic stuff, if you haven't tried it yet, you should.
Of course, I only have about 50+ years shooting black powder guns, so what do I know.
And of course, YMMV.
John
And here I thought way back in the olden days you guys used Dragon Spit and Unicorn Juice! :lol sign
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'bout the only time I'll use a patch lube is when out hunting as I don't want to carry a rifle around all day with a spit patch in it, then have to store the rifle loaded for several days before I get back out on the hunt. I read once where a feller can risk forming a rust ring where the ball & patch set in the bore (using just spit) for a period of time... Whether this is true or not, I don't know as it's something I have no desire to test... :shake
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My Pedersoli "Mortimer flintlock has a patened breach.
The Pedersoli and some others have a bigger problem in that they make the powder chamber very small. I miked the powder chamber of both plugs at .245" diameter. A 6mm bore brush would be right except bore brushes are not designed to clean all the way to the bottom, which is what is needed here. Winding a patch around a .22 caliber brush works well for cleaning the powder chamber so long as you don't loose the patch down bore.
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Took delivery of a .54 Lyman GPR flintlock from Midsouth a couple days ago. I've been on a black powder hiatus for several years, and previously owned only percussion guns. Got a buddy who's a dyed-in-the-wool, side-locking, smoke-poling, flint-popping hippee, ;D who managed to re-kindle my interest, and here we are. In multiple fits of stupidity, I had previously sold or given away all my shooting supplies, so been getting (mysterious - to my wife) packages in the mail, and putting together a kit.
Swapped out the adjustable rear sight for a fixed blade, seasoned the barrel
, cut a new flint pad (I mistook the factory leather for paper), and worked on the trigger a bit. Took it out today and torched off the inaugural shot with satisfactory results. 75 grs of ffg with 4f in the pan, Speer .530 ball with .015 pre-lubed patch. It seated easy enough that I think I'll need to go to a thicker patch, or maybe even a .535 ball for regular work. Ignition of the main charge was almost instantaneous. I got an RMC touch hole liner in the mail today, and it's now installed. Hoping that speeds it up the last little bit for me. The lock seems slow and rough, but it's smoothed out some since I started fiddling with it, and we'll see how it does when I bench it here in another few days. Probably needs some shooting.
Wood-to-metal fit was better than I expected. The finish leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I'm sure I can see some nice grain under the tar-coat Lyman uses. Some sandpaper and a new stain is probably in the works for the upcoming winter doldrums.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. Already lusting after one of Jim Kibler's Colonial kits, but it's currently a 3-month wait, so lucky for me, I should have time to settle into this gun and see how it does over time. Maybe I'll be satisfied enough to forego ordering a semi-custom kit...
:pray:
There's really no such thing as "seasoning" a barrel. That's a myth made up by the makers of Bore Butter... You can take 4 ought (0000) steel wool and polish the bore of a barrel - but most modern barrels just need some shooting time with the patched ball to get any sharp Lands smoothed out a bit, and it doesn't take a lot of shots to do it. :shake
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Welcome to the site! How did you season the barrel without shooting it? Just curious...
Thanks,
~Kees~
Maybe not what everyone considers "seasoning" but I just get the barrel real warm with boiling water (after a thorough cleaning) and soak the bore with a non-petroleum lube (bore-butter). No scientific evidence, but I think it helps.
Welcome to TMA !
No scientific evidence, but no BS - it's worked for me. :bl th up
I seasoned my rifle with BB when I first got it in 1985, and it still doesn't have a spot of rust on/in it.
When done with a day's shooting, I simply flushed the bore & ignition channel with Moose Milk (T/C #10 bore cleaner), then ran multiple dry patches to dry the bore, finishing up with a light coat of BB on a loose patch B 4 storing the gun until the next time.
I also used the last finishing patch (with the BB) to wipe down all the external metal surfaces - no, the metal wasn't shiny, but then it never rusted either.
BTW, I also had a flintlock A&H Mountain Rifle that had ignition time to rival a metallic cartridge rifle's - surprising me a LOT !
.
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The lock time improves with use. You can help by putting a high polishing on the friction bearing moving parts. I had an Armsport Hawken in the late 1970's and early '80's that I polished the lock parts with a jewelers extra fine diamond file and 800 and 1200 wet sanding paper. I don't know if they still make the 1200 grit. You could try an auto parts store. I used the wet sanding paper with low viscosity oil which is almost as runny as water. You don't want to take off metal as much as just lightly smooth polish it. Do both sides, only along the contact area of BOTH pieces that rub together. I use graphite as a lube. Oil does slow due to viscosity and is affected by temperatures, If graphite gets, wet it dry quick and cakes but breaks apart with action of the parts and keeps lubing. You need to watch as it does require upkeep. I was informed on this by a now deceased metallurgist and master gunsmith in PA.
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i wish some folks would just hearken to how guns were cared for back in the day. they'd see that all the concoctions and chemicals that are touted by legions are just not necessary and, in the long run, will do more harm than good.
as to the lock, it will usually pay dividends to take it completely apart and level the the lock plate (with a file), then put it all back together and sparsely oil all moving pivot point parts, then screw it back to the gun's lock mortise.
it would do us all good to attend to our firearms as soon as possible and not procrastinate. this is the absolute best thing one can do with regards to gun maintenance. in doing so, dihydrogen monoxide (plain tepid tap water) will be your best friend, and your gun's, too. again, there is no need to affront your gun with harsh chemicals! use water and water soluble oil. this will make everyone - gun and shooter - very happy campers in the long run. promise.