Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Lastmohecken on October 04, 2009, 11:20:20 PM

Title: Flintlocks, if you could only own one?
Post by: Lastmohecken on October 04, 2009, 11:20:20 PM: Well, it seems this site has been a little low on activity, lately, and this has probably been done before, but I havn't seen it.

If you could only own one flintlock muzzleloader, and it also had to be your only muzzleloader, what would you choose?

You could give two answers, one choice for the here and now, for what ever needs you have in the present, and another for that time in history, that you might have preferred to live, or your presona, etc.

I would guess, if one was considering a choice for carrying back into the past, it would make sense to consider the time and the place, small game, vs large game, war and or peace, etc.
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Post by: nobber on October 05, 2009, 12:37:44 AM: >62 cal. smooth rifle Jackie Brown gun I've had for a few years, puts deer and fowl on the table and would take a mean injun or unruly frenchie down in a pinch.

Nobber
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Post by: hawkeye on October 05, 2009, 08:52:22 AM: If I could keep only one of my flintlocks, it would be my Brown Bess. A medium to large bore smoothie will do anything you need from a firelock. Rifles are specialty arms, smoothbores can do it all.
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Post by: AxelP on October 05, 2009, 09:07:19 AM: Jim Chambers PA fowler .62 smoothie for all the above reasons.
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Post by: mark davidson on October 05, 2009, 10:22:04 AM: I think my .62 full stock Hawken would do just fine. Plenty big enough caliber for griz, elk, and such and big enough to pour shot down and make camp meat. I have little experience with smoothies but from what folks say about accuracy beyond close range I would lean toward a rifled barrel gun.
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Post by: deadfallpaul on October 05, 2009, 11:03:56 AM: My .62 cal. Tulle by Centermark.
Does it all!!
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Post by: pathfinder on October 05, 2009, 11:05:43 AM: I'll go with my Macinaw gun,20ga 40" barrel. As far as accuracy,out to 80-100 yards I'll be right there with rifles on normal targets, not string measure accuracy,but meat is on the table.
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Post by: Gambia on October 05, 2009, 11:06:44 AM: I own and shoot a s/b and a sxs flintlock sporting gun.The sxs is a 12 gauge with 30 inch barrels and the s/b is a 20 gauge with a 32 inch barrel both originals which I use for pest control and game . Both shoot well but I still prefere a sxs percussion sporting gun
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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Post by: Kermit on October 05, 2009, 11:33:46 AM: My second flinter is still my go-to firelock. Dark-finished maple, 44" x 20ga Getz OTR barrel, Chambers early Germanic lock. Made for me 20-some years ago by Joe Gondek.

If I didn't have that, I'd be getting Jim Chambers' PA 20 ga fowler or his New England Colonial Fowler/Militia Musket in 12 ga. Probably go 12 ga just because.
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Post by: Puffer on October 05, 2009, 01:25:12 PM: In my case, it is is my Petersoli Mortimer .54 cal/12 ga. ( it has interchangeable Bbl.s.)

Puffer
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Post by: AxelP on October 05, 2009, 01:58:12 PM: My fowler is my "go to" gun. why? because for some strange reason, I can usually hit what I point it at... the chamber's roundface lock is a volcano and the gun balances extremely well--for me anyway... And of course, the versatility of shooting roundball and shot.

Its a rather plain jane gun compared to my rifles, but I have more confidence in it than my rifleguns.

Axe
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Post by: Loyalist Dave on October 05, 2009, 02:23:21 PM: I can give one for now and it apply to back then too. I'd want my current .54 caliber PA Mountain Rifle from Cabin Creek with the 38" swamped barrel, BUT, I'd want it grooved not rifled (straight rifled some call that, but that seems an oxymoron). It would be a bit better in accuracy on a round ball than a plain smooth bore, and very good with shot being 28 gauge. The grooved barrel prevents the shot column from twisting as it moves forward and thus helps to keep a tighter pattern.

LD
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Post by: FG1 on October 05, 2009, 02:31:14 PM: I think I would go with a 24 ga. Small enough to not require a lot of shot and powder for small game yet large enough with roundball for big game .
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Post by: Forager on October 05, 2009, 03:56:19 PM: Side-by-side cape gun; .50 rifled by 20 gauge smoothbore.
Title: flintlocks
Post by: greyhunter on October 05, 2009, 04:11:44 PM: Don't own a smoothie in flint yet, so will have to go with my .50 cal TC Hawken. Love my Lyman GPR too but it's a little long for woods hunting. The old TC goes flash bang in a heartbeat most all the time if I do my part.
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Post by: Quartermaster James on October 05, 2009, 06:47:50 PM: One gun here too!

Well, long gun at least. Got two pistols. They're both flintlock smoothies too!

Maybe someday I'll get one of them twisties, but there are a couple more smoothies out there with my name on them first!
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Post by: Lastmohecken on October 05, 2009, 07:30:35 PM: Wow! It looks like the smoothies are way out in front, and not with good reason, I guess. I have always owned mostly rifled guns, except for my 10ga side by side shotgun, but I should be receiving my Jackie Brown 62 cal Fowler, very soon.

I don't have a rear sight on it. It looks like many of you metioned a smooth rifle, so I recond most opt for a rear sight. I wonder how many yards one is giving up, if any, by not having a rear sight? Comments?
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Post by: hawkeye on October 05, 2009, 08:25:00 PM: A rear sight on a smoothbore disqualifies it for most smoothbore matches. There fine if is just for personal use. I put one on my canoe gun as I never use it for the ML gun club woodswalks.
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Post by: butterchurn on October 05, 2009, 11:21:10 PM: I'd vote for the flint smoothie
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Post by: Gambia on October 06, 2009, 01:54:13 AM: Traditional for me an original flintlock sxs or s/b sporting shotgun.
Feltwad.
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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Post by: Roaddog on October 06, 2009, 05:21:39 AM: I am a rifle man but if just one gun I would go with my Bobby Christian 20 gage fowler. It's good for all I would need to do.
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Post by: Morgan on October 06, 2009, 08:09:14 AM: I vote for the flint smoothie. My Tulle, made for me by Matt Avance, will handle anything I need it to do....as long as the man behind the gun does his part.

Morgan
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Post by: AxelP on October 06, 2009, 09:20:15 AM: My smoothie is good for a max of 80 yards with a roundball--my preference is more like 60 yrds... I have killed pheasant as well as broken clays with it out to 35-40 yards--preference is 25-30.

My eyes are not good enuff to go much past that with my rifle gun. Honestly, if I had both my smoothie and my rifle loaded in front of me, Id be more likely to grab the smoothie than the rifle as I have confidence in my ability to shoot it straight. I have less confidence in my ability to shoot my rifle straight for some reason... My smoothie does not have a rear sight---but the tangscrew head works as such so.....

Axe
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Post by: Kermit on October 06, 2009, 11:57:24 AM: It would be interesting to find out how many of us who are saying "smoothie" are of an age where a rear sight is almost useless. Anyone care to 'fess up?

I'll start. I'm 64 and my rifles of late have the rear sight forward of the ramrod entry--and they are still pertty blurry. And tang screw? Can't even BEGIN to see that!
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Post by: mario on October 06, 2009, 12:41:11 PM: A Type G trade gun (like the one Mike Brooks is currently building me...)

Fits North and South, F&I and RevWar, hunting or fighting.

Mario
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Post by: Morgan on October 06, 2009, 12:58:07 PM: Quote
It would be interesting to find out how many of us who are saying "smoothie" are of an age where a rear sight is almost useless. Anyone care to 'fess up?

I'm 49 and got to admit in the last couple of years I "feel" the sight picture more than I "see" it now. So a rear sight for me is almost more of an ornament than a tool. But that is not the real issue with a smooth bore for me, it's the versatility of the gun.

Morgan
(junior member of the 'ol codger society)
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Post by: Quartermaster James on October 06, 2009, 01:47:02 PM: Quote from: "Kermit"
It would be interesting to find out how many of us who are saying "smoothie" are of an age where a rear sight is almost useless. Anyone care to 'fess up?

I'm 48 and just starting shooting; still working on figuring out what a "sight picture" is!

I have been wondering whether the glasses or the contacts work best for getting the target and the front bead in focus at the same time. Am nearsighted.
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Post by: the Black Spot on October 06, 2009, 02:18:18 PM: well, if i was getting one for here and now. it would be a .40 cal with 42 inch barrel, southern style. since i live in arkansas i can use it for deer and small game.

if i could have a choice it would be a .54 cal 42 inch barrel southern style.
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Post by: Puffer on October 06, 2009, 02:30:31 PM: Quote from: "Kermit"
It would be interesting to find out how many of us who are saying "smoothie" are of an age where a rear sight is almost useless. Anyone care to 'fess up?

I'll start. I'm 64 and my rifles of late have the rear sight forward of the ramrod entry--and they are still pertty blurry. And tang screw? Can't even BEGIN to see that!

:oops:

Puffer
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Post by: mike on October 06, 2009, 03:02:32 PM: I only have one, an old CVA mountain rifle.
I'm 55 and no matter how I look through my glasses the rear sight is just a brown blur in my line of sight.
Shot a 62 cal. trade gun this weekend. I like not having that brown blur in my way.
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Post by: paw on October 06, 2009, 03:07:03 PM: my one gun would be my jackie brown 20ga smoothbore flower. I shot at a rondy this past weekend with my jackie brown 62cal rifle and I shot the same course whith my smoothbore which has no rear sites and hit 3x as many targets with the smoothbore Go Figure
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Post by: deadfallpaul on October 06, 2009, 05:19:47 PM: I am 65 and the lack of a rear sight doesn't matter to my shooting the smooth bore.
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Post by: Lastmohecken on October 06, 2009, 05:40:31 PM: This has been a really interesting thread, for me. And a lot of you guy are saying what I was beginning to suspect. I am 51, and while I can still see the sight picture on a good rear sight/front sight combination, that combination is getting harder to find. Many sight combinations don't work very good for me, but when I discover a gun or sight combo that really works well, I keep it.

It would be my guess that the long barrels of 42 inches and beyond with just a front sight, probably really helps, with focusing when one's eyes, starts to have issues with iron sights. For me my focusing is compouded by the fact that my weak eye is my shooting eye.
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Post by: Lastmohecken on October 06, 2009, 05:47:56 PM: Quote from: "the Black Spot"
well, if i was getting one for here and now. it would be a .40 cal with 42 inch barrel, southern style. since i live in arkansas i can use it for deer and small game.

if i could have a choice it would be a .54 cal 42 inch barrel southern style.

I have always owned and hunted deer with the 54cal, but like you, I have been thinking about a .40 because I live in Arkansas, also, and I could carry it, for such a large part of the year, since it's the only muzzleloader, or actually rifle in general that one can hunt (legally), everthing from squirrels to deer. Not that I can't more or less do the same with a .62 cal fowler, but the one problem with the fowler is I have to either load for squirrels or deer, since the same load won't work for both, but I could make the .40 cal work with the same load, which also makes it easy to pot a squirrel, and also shoot a coyote with the same load, where the birdshot might not bring down a coyote.

So, in a way the 40, makes a great late summer, eairly fall woods walking gun.
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Post by: Morgan on October 06, 2009, 08:15:29 PM: Being an Arkie also, I have long said that if I ever get to have a rifle built it would be a .40 for the same reasons....but again the .62 smoothbore will hunt anything in Arkansas.

Morgan
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Post by: butterchurn on October 07, 2009, 01:49:09 PM: I'm 57 and the rear sight is not nice to me.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on October 07, 2009, 03:09:22 PM: "If ya could only have one"...now that would make Jack a dull boy, fer sure!

However, it's only reasonable, at least to this old boy, that if one gun, and one gun only, was all I could ever own, it would definitely be a .62 cal smoothbore.
And, it seems from the opinions expressed, that the choice of smooth bore is pretty much favored in this discussion, at least for right now.

Now having said that, I have to think back a year or so ago, on this same forum, a somewhat similar thread asked, "what was favorite type Muzzleloader for the Frontiersman / Mountain man"...and the results of that little informal survey revealed the Rifle, in caliber .50 or larger....and some fair arguments, and a bit of documentation was provided to support that theory.

Is what we are reading right now a result of today's more modern thinking, or was there actually more smooth bores among the early pioneer folks than "rifled" rifles????

(To my way of thinking, a smooth bore with both front and back sights is still a smooth bore, albeit often called a smooth bore rifle, ....and, a "Fowler" will be a smooth bore and have only a front sight...that is neither here, nor there, as a smooth bore will still have no rifling. )

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Morgan on October 07, 2009, 03:53:49 PM: Depending on one's station in life during the Colonial Era, most folks would have only been able to afford one gun and therefore would need a gun that could handle multiple tasks. Hunting fowl, larger game and in some instances serve as an arm for militia duty.

Taking these factors into account, the smoothbore was the top choice. Rifles were present and not uncommon during the time, but the "common man's gun" was the smoothbore fowler or musket.

While the rifled guns held an edge in range and accuracy, the smoothbore was adequate for most tasks.

Just my opinion on the subject.

Morgan
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Post by: the Black Spot on October 07, 2009, 05:35:59 PM: surprised the swivel barrel guns have not been mentioned.
to heavy?
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Post by: the Black Spot on October 07, 2009, 05:37:48 PM: Quote from: "Morgan"
Being an Arkie also, I have long said that if I ever get to have a rifle built it would be a .40 for the same reasons....but again the .62 smoothbore will hunt anything in Arkansas.

Morgan

yeah, the .40 would probably be a little light for bear or elk(if your lucky for a permit). guess you could use conicals?
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Post by: mario on October 09, 2009, 04:37:10 PM: Quote from: "the Black Spot"
surprised the swivel barrel guns have not been mentioned.
to heavy?

Heavy, expensive and complicated.

Mario
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Post by: Longhunter on October 09, 2009, 06:17:29 PM: Quote
"If ya could only have one"...now that would make Jack a dull boy, fer sure!

I agree with Unka Russ! You'll NEVER see this child with only one gun to his name. :roll eyes ...last winter it put down two whitetails with one shot and slung a ball clean through a buffalo at 80yd's

Did I ever tell you how accurate my little .32 flinter Sweet Pea shoots?....ONE GUN???....All I gotta say is, Mother LaClair never raised such a foolish child...
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Post by: macNnc on October 10, 2009, 08:01:44 AM: I really love the long rifles...in the flint configuration,I don't think a lovlier gun was ever made...but if I had to pick one gun..for everything..(and may God forbid) it'd be my .62 smoothie...
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Post by: tg on October 16, 2009, 05:21:23 PM: I have found the right gun for me after many years a .58 French smoothbore hunting gun
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Post by: Witch Hollow on October 17, 2009, 03:29:28 PM: If I had to choose only one, and it could be the gun of my dreams it would be 54 cal, flint, done in the Dickert style. No fancy carving or incising, but I would love to have extra fancy maple stock. Around a 40 inch swamped barrel would do nicely.
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Post by: russ t frizzen on October 18, 2009, 01:48:05 PM: I'd go with my 10 bore long fowler. It can be loaded light or heavy with shot for fowl and small game, and with a patched 600 grain ball should be capable of taking any big game on the continent. And an ounce and a half of buckshot just might keep the two legged rodents away as well!
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Post by: WhiteBlanket on October 19, 2009, 12:14:54 AM: Another vote for the .62 cal. smoothbore - specifically as my ERA French trade gun:

(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/scutariusscottus/ERA%20French%20Trade%20Gun/000_0009.jpg)[/img]
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Post by: bluelake on October 19, 2009, 12:30:49 AM: Quote from: "Morgan"
Quote
I'm 49 and got to admit in the last couple of years I "feel" the sight picture more than I "see" it now.

"Use the force, Morgan..."

I'm about your age and I know what you mean. My eyesight isn't what it used to be, but I hope to be shooting for many more years to come.
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Post by: russ t frizzen on October 19, 2009, 11:13:38 AM: Even with eyeglasses I've reached this point. Rear sights are now of small value, but instinctive "point and shoot" techniques work just fine! I guess old dogs can learn new tricks.
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Post by: Lastmohecken on October 20, 2009, 09:34:23 AM: Well, I am still waiting for my .62 fowler from Jackie Brown. It was promised a couple of weeks ago, but I havn't gotten it yet. It will have a 44 inch barrel. I havn't had a gun with that long a barrle before, but it seems that with guns that long, they should point pretty good.

I can still see a rear sight, if it's a good sight, but my fowler does not have one, so we will see.
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Post by: Morgan on October 20, 2009, 03:33:44 PM: When you get it, I hope that you will post pictures and give us a reveiw of the general fit and finish...and of course a report of how it shoots.

Morgan
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Post by: Lastmohecken on October 20, 2009, 08:54:01 PM: Quote from: "Morgan"
When you get it, I hope that you will post pictures and give us a reveiw of the general fit and finish...and of course a report of how it shoots.

Morgan

I will be looking foward to it.
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Post by: jtwodogs on October 20, 2009, 10:19:52 PM: Hopefully one of these days a .62 Chambers mark silver.
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Post by: tg on October 21, 2009, 09:40:07 PM: Here is THE gun for me, I found it after many years of shooting different styles, bore sizes and other little differences, I chose a "replica" of a French hunting gun, ordinary type from the town of Tulle, 44" barrel, Walnut stock, iron (steel) furniture and .58 bore, no rear sight, it will shoot ball sizes from .535-.570 and does well with shot to 20 yds give or take uasing a standard shot coloum minus the big fiber wad, may used halh a wad or some wasp nest I need to play around with shot more, the ball s good to 50 yds 40 is even better. Jackie Browns gun are nice fitting and good shooting guns, at least the one I had was, the only thing I did not like was that the oct part of the barrel was not tapered on mine the taper started after the wedding band
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/trg33/hunt2.jpg)
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Post by: bluelake on October 21, 2009, 09:58:31 PM: Well, this past summer, I had fun with my .45 cal. matchlock and two flinter pistols (.45 and .50 cal.). This next summer, I'm hoping to add two flintlock rifles to the bunch. I would like to have a .32 cal. and also a Baker. It's too hard to choose just one!
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Post by: Buffler Razz on October 21, 2009, 10:13:54 PM: My Chambers 58cal Mark Silver is it. She has sentimental value as I put her together, bled on her a number of times in the process too.
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Post by: Mike R on October 29, 2009, 09:26:40 AM: Well, I understand the predominance of smoothbore choices-- as a practical decision I cannot fault it. But I like flintlock RIFLES. Now here is the rub--one rifle cannot do it all very well. Being sort of a collector at heart, and being lucky enough to have been able to accumulate several rifles [and a couple of smoothies] over the years in various calibers, I'd be hard pressed to pick just one! I find myself alternating rifles --you can only carry ONE AT A TIME. I am not mainly a big game hunter, but have big game rifles in abundance in .45, .50 and .54 [2 of each of these bores]--I traded off my .58 rifle and gave away my .40 [not legal to hunt with in Lousyanna]--and I have one 20 gauge left of 2 I've had. For small game rifle I have only a .32--go figure [I traded off a .36 years ago]. If forced to chose just one rifle I'd have to retain my oldest .45, that I made myself and still love the best--but I'd also have to keep the 20 gauge Tulle fusil as a reenactment gun. But it would be hard to give up any of the others...
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Post by: AZ Longrifle on October 30, 2009, 04:08:27 PM: My pick, either a Flintlock or Matchlock 20ga smoothbore, by Leonard Day. I have 1 of each and would be hard pressed to make a choice unless I needed to do so. I can't find flint locally, but I can make all the match cord I need from Hemp or Jute twine.

If it were an "End-of-the-world-as-we-know-it" scenario, I'd realistically grab my M60E3 or my MG-42 and a truck bed full of ammo and spare parts!
Title: ONLY ONE?
Post by: madcaster on October 31, 2009, 01:39:52 AM: And I served in the Armed Forces for FREEDOM? :shock:
Just a kiddin! :happy
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Post by: Kermit on October 31, 2009, 11:14:25 AM: You mean kinda like those 19th century Scots who hung knives, swords, and pistols on their costumed persons till you could hardly tell there was a kilt there?
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Post by: flintlock62 on November 17, 2009, 05:52:09 PM: Since I do not own a smooth bore, it would have to be my 62 Hawkens full stock. A smooth bore would have the advantage of gathering foul, squirrel and rabbits. But hey, I have taken a rabbit once with a round ball. Luckily I shot it in the head!
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Post by: James Kelly on November 22, 2009, 03:58:02 PM: For me its easy--my Caywood Southern Mountain rifle. It shoots, it hits, I can lift it.
(http://[img]http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/4JamesKelly/CaywoodS002.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/4JamesKelly/CaywoodMtnRifle001.jpg)[/img]
Some time ago I damaged my left shoulder, the muscle involved in holding a rifle pretty much does not work. Happened a couple weeks after I got a new Caywood Type D French trade gun, brass mounted, bells & whistles. Still haven't shot it. Acquired a disgusting number of guns I still can't lift. Then, Lo & Behold, got onto gunbroker.com at a critical time and found a local Michigander with a Caywood Mountain rifle for sale. Hadn't wanted to go the $$ and long wait for a new one but could not resist. So, it is a .45 cal, 39" barrel, weighs only 5 pounds. I can lift & aim it!! The lock sends enough sparks to set the rug afire. Didn't think I could see the front sight (Model 1940 eyes) but three bench shots 5/8" c.t.c at 25 yards indicated I might be doing something right. Now the steel targets no longer snicker when I come by, rather clang in a satisfactory manner. And for those of us with Mature Eyeballs, that rear sight is set down the barrel some 14" from the breech. Typical Kentucky is about 10", 11" for my Pedersoli Frontier and only 4" for Pedersoli/Dixie Jaeger.
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Post by: Lastmohecken on November 22, 2009, 08:52:08 PM: I really like your Caywood Mountain Rifle. I don't live that far from Caywood, but I have never been over there, although I have talked to him on the phone. I do remember his dad, from my highschool days, when he would come up to the AGRI shop and borrow the band saw, to cut out rifle stocks, back in the 70's.

A Caywood gun is pretty highly regarded by many in this part of the woods, but you don't see them very often.