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Author Topic: Woods walk flinter gun management  (Read 1903 times)

Offline RobD

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Woods walk flinter gun management
« on: August 31, 2018, 08:12:44 PM »
Some flinters just don't need much fouling control, if any.  That's purty much my JB .62 smoothbore.  It's a "load, fire, load" kinda gun, with gato feo greased patching either via a ball board or cut at the muzzle.  Which means I don't need to mess with patched jags down the bore for fouling control.   Loading becomes a breeze immediately after a shot is taken ...

1. blow down the barrel with moist breath to keep the bp residue soft

2. measure out the 3f bp powder charge and pour down the tube, thump the stock to settle the powder column

3. align the ball board and thumb down the patched ball (or patch strip over the muzzle, thumb down the ball, cut off the patch excess)

4. extract the ramrod straight up out of the pipes, then straight down, seating the ball (no rod flipping required)

5. bounce the rod to compact seat the patched ball on the powder charge, lift up and replace the rod straight down into the pipes

6. address the lock if it needs cleaning and the touch hole if it needs picking

7. prime the pan with 3f

My JG .40 flinter is whole 'nother story.  It builds up chamber crud fast and is most reliable when I run a dried moose milk patch down its tube between shots.  This means I've got a slight juggling act to contend with on a woods walk trail after a shot is taken ...

1. grab a dry lube patch from the shooting bag, lift up the ramrod, flip it around so the jagged end can push down the patch, extract the patch and put it in the dirty patch bag on my belt, and hold the rod in my left hand (I'm a righty)

2. grab the fixed charge powder measure hanging off my pouch strap with my left hand whilst still holding the rod in that hand, grab the powder horn with my right hand and pull out the stopper with my teeth, measure out the 3f bp powder charge, replace the horn stopper still held in my teeth and let it go, move the filled powder measure from my left hand to my now free right hand and pour down the tube, thump the stock to settle the powder column (i've still got the rod clutched in my left hand)

3. move the rod to my right hand, grab and align the ball board to the muzzle with my left hand, hold the board with my right hand (still clutching the rod) and left hand thumb down the patched ball, release the ball board

4. use both hands to mate the rod with the patched ball in the muzzle and seat it on the powder column

5. bounce the rod to compact seat the patched ball on the powder charge, the rod is flipped around and goes back down the pipes

6. address the lock if it needs cleaning and the touch hole if it needs picking

7. prime the pan with 3f

ain't all dis stuff fun?  :applaud  :wave  :*:

Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 08:25:35 PM »
It sure is fun, Rob!  :bl th up

All my flinters I've built over the years - the touch hole's are located approximately 1/8th to 5/32nds ahead of the face of the breech plug. It makes for great/sure ignition. Yes sir, the flintlock - greatest invention ever!  :bl th up
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Offline Ironhand

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 02:48:00 PM »
 blow down the barrel with moist breath to keep the bp residue soft

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!

Blowing down the barrel has resulted in injuries and loss of life.

I know this is controversial but it is true

IronHand
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Offline RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 05:23:17 PM »
blow down the barrel with moist breath to keep the bp residue soft

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!

Blowing down the barrel has resulted in injuries and loss of life.

I know this is controversial but it is true

IronHand


if you are a sane and common sense person, blowing down the barrel immediately after firing is not only safe, it's a safety measure.  this was done and condoned by the NMLRA until it became politically insurance incorrect, and then the centuries old practice was banned.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

QUESTION -
What do the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, Senator Dianne Feinstein, and New York’s Mayor Bloomberg all agree on??

ANSWER -
They all know what’s good for you, better than you do yourself!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It’s A Libertarian Thing

An article by B'wana Bob ...

The bedrock rule of firearms safety that we all follow is - ‘Always treat a gun as being loaded’.  I am a buckskinner and re-enactor with the ‘persona’ of a revolutionary war farmer and, although I like to shoot and hunt, ‘paper punching’ at a match has always been viewed more as a duty to support my club than as a fun activity in its own right.  I recently moved to a new town and, not having been involved with organized muzzle loading for years, I decided to join a local muzzle loading club.  On my first shoot day, after laying out all my shooting gear and loading up my rifle, I approached the firing line with just a little anxiety.  Happily, all went well and, after my rifle fired, with only the usual little delay of an out-of-practice flint lock, standing on the firing line I blew down the barrel.  I was immediately startled by a bellowed “Never do that again!” from a by-stander.  A little annoyed at the forwardness of the individual, but not wanting to make a scene at my first match, I thanked him for his concern and went to the bench to reload.  It was then that I learned that this club has a safety rule forbidding blowing down the gun barrel and a range officer whose job it is to enforce it. 

Ok, reloading and returning to the firing line again, I was frustrated that my rifle, a good flint lock and usually very reliable, could not be induced to discharge.  After multiple attempts, I finally noticed a little wisp of cloth coming from the touch hole at my breech.  My vent was plugged solidly by a fragment of patching.  As I left the firing line to pull the ball, I recalled that on blowing down the barrel I had noticed increased resistance to my effort.  Distracted by the range officer’s outburst, this had gone right by me, and as a result, I now had some unnecessary and potentially hazardous work to do - removing a charged ball, that I feel could have been easily avoided.

Gun safety with me is very important.  Is muzzleloading shooting unsafe?  Potentially, yes. Among many other things, it only takes someone carelessly pointing the muzzle of their gun after a misfire or a hang fire, or a yahoo firing a ‘duplex load’ of black and smokeless powder, or someone firing with the ball stuck half-way down the barrel, to immediately generate extremely unsafe conditions for nearby shooters and, frequently, themselves.  I simply do not participate in an activity where I feel unsafe, and yet I regularly blow down the barrel of my gun. 

I define blowing down the barrel as, immediately after discharging a muzzle loading firearm firing black powder and while still at the firing position, blowing down the barrel to initiate the process of reloading the gun.  Is this an exception to our bedrock rule of always treating a gun as if it’s loaded?  You betcha.  I just fired the gun, I know it’s unloaded.  Furthermore, after experiencing the heat and pressures of discharge, it’s utterly impossible that it still could be loaded - and ‘impossible’ is a word that I use very, very rarely.  Could there be a spark, a glowing ember, still burning down there in the gook of black powder residue?  Well, yes, that’s exactly why I do it, but the ember can’t hurt the blower as long as there is no added powder thrown down the bore. 

The cardinal rule of safe gun handling is - “Always treat a gun as if it is loaded”, but every rule has exceptions or we couldn’t clean our guns.  A blanket policy forbidding the blowing down of a gun’s barrel immediately after discharge, raises this otherwise essential rule of shooting to the level of a fetish.  “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, …” 

Blowing down the barrel is not, as some say, a mindless ritual.  While blowing, watch the plume of powder smoke coming from the touch hole or nipple.  It should blossom and then disappear while you continue to blow.  If it persists, you have a problem.  If there is no plume, as happened with me at that range, then your vent or nipple is plugged, or even your breech and, again, you have a problem.

Blowing down the barrel of a firearm before loading has been practiced for hundreds of years.  Audubon in 1805 describes a coon hunter loading his rifle, preparing to set out on a night’s hunt.

“He blows through his rifle to clear it, ….”

We can only speculate where this practice originated, but several hundred years ago, black powder was not the uniform, cleanly burning product with which we are familiar now.  Reportedly, E. I. DuPont got into the black powder business because he saw that the quality of the available powders was so poor.  Additionally, wet or poorly stored black powder cakes and the clumps must then be broken up before firing.  It is reasonable to me that blowing down the barrel was a natural and effective response to this problem of inconsistent black powder; the blast furnace-like effect of the oxygen forced down the barrel extinguishing any last lingering embers in the clumps of partially burned powder residue while simultaneously clearing any remaining debris from the touch hole and softening the black powder residue. 

Do unexpected ignitions occur with today’s powders?  Danged right!  In an article in the February 2002 issue of ‘Muzzleblasts’ entitled “The Other Guy”, the author describes firing his rifle at a target. He then poured powder down the barrel, used short starter to place a patched ball in the muzzle, and then, as he pushed the ball down the muzzle with his ramrod, having the firearm discharge.  His conclusion, stated to me orally, was that there was an ember somewhere down the barrel that had ignited the powder prematurely.  Would blowing down the barrel have prevented this?  Of course I don’t know, but it surely wouldn’t have hurt and I strongly suspect that it would have prevented the unexpected discharge.  How about my own situation at that new club, where a fragment of patching somehow had remained in my barrel, actually plugging the touch hole at the second shot?  It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to envision that cloth patching smoldering away, needing only the arrival of the next powder charge to initiate an unexpected and possibly fatal discharge of the firearm, a discharge that I feel would have been avoided if the blockage was discovered on my blowing down the barrel. 

In my opinion, far from being a safety hazard, blowing down the barrel at a range immediately after firing is actually the time-tested mandatory first step in reloading a traditional muzzle loader shooting black powder, ensuring that it is now safe to proceed with pouring powder down the bore.  Swabbing the bore with a wet patch is certainly a suitable alternative, but it takes more time and effort and, especially with patent breeches, unless a second, smaller diameter swab is used, the entire breech may not be reached. Why not just use a tube to blow down the barrel? Because it’s a clumsy solution to a nonexistent problem.

Where did this ban on blowing down the barrel originate?  In a Presidential Message written by Tom Schiffer of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association (NMLRA) in February 1992, he described blowing down the barrel as a harmless ‘ritual’, but still a bad habit that can lead shooters to be distracted “when the shooter is concentrating on the alignment hold and release” and make some undefined hazardous mistake.  The NMLRA has never held that blowing down the barrel, as I have defined it, is dangerous in itself. 

President Schiffer made two basic arguments in supporting their position:

First, a person might be blowing down the fired barrel of a double barrel gun with the other barrel still loaded.  This argument is absurd. You never put your face in front of even a potentially loaded gun, double barrel or not.  If you are prone to being so absent minded, you also shouldn’t be permitted to go out alone or have things like a driver’s license.

The second argument was that a shooter may not notice that the gun they thought they had just fired actually had experienced only a severe hang fire, and it may then fire as the shooter blows down the barrel.  This tragedy apparently actually happened with a woman who was new to muzzleloading.  It’s hard for me to understand how anybody could fail to realize, after shooting the firearm even once, what a real discharge feels like.  The smallest muzzleloading rifle I am aware of, a .25 caliber caplock, leaves no doubt when it has fired.  I feel that if you cannot tell if a gun has discharged or not, you simply aren’t ready to be out there shooting, unsupervised.  Several years ago there was a dreadful death in the state of West Virginia when a father, thinking the gun unloaded, blew down the barrel of his son’s gun which had actually experienced only a hangfire.  A marked ramrod is always used to determine if a gun is loaded or not.  The common denominator in both these terrible incidents is that the cardinal rule, ‘Always treat a gun as being loaded’ was ignored.

Not mentioned by the NMLRA, I have also read the argument that on blowing down the barrel you may accidentally burn your lips.  I don’t know what firearm you use, but I don’t shoot a flame thrower.

It seems to me that in eliminating this time-tested method for extinguishing residual embers in a muzzleloader firing black powder, the NMLRA has, quite arbitrarily, actually inadvertently increased the hazards of firing muzzle loading firearms, not decreased them.  Handling firearms is inherently dangerous. Arbitrarily, why not have a rule requiring an ‘expert’ range officer to confirm that all balls are fully resting on the powder before that gun can be discharged? An airspace below the ball is infinitely more dangerous then blowing down the barrel of a just-discharged gun.

In summary, I feel that blowing down the barrel of a muzzle loader using black powder immediately after discharge actually INCREASES firearms safety, and the NMLRA, while agreeing that it is not a dangerous practice in itself, has arbitrarily decided that the threat of setting a dangerous example for others overrules this value. As an analogy, semi-automatic rifles mechanically all work the same way, but they can be ‘dressed up’ to look quite different. Senator Feinstein notoriously has wanted to outlaw mililtary-style semi-automatic rifles because they look scary. It appears to me that the NMLRA has actually banned blowing down the barrel immediately after discharge primarily because it looks scary.

Would I object to a NMLRA rule stating something like;

“In a firearm using black powder, blowing down the barrel of the gun immediately after discharge and before moving from the firing line is strongly discouraged as being a practice that may result in harm under certain situations, but is not actually forbidden”?

Not at all, I think that this would actually be a good idea, pointing out the possible dangers of this practice for careless, inexperienced, or ignorant people.



Offline RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 05:36:46 PM »
"It Finally Happened To Me"

An article by Mike Nesbitt in his featured "Shooting the Bull" November/December 2013 Muzzleloader Magazine column.

Mike took a fouling shot with his .54 flintlock.  The ignition was a bit slow, but it went off anyway. Without any fouling control administered, Mike began pouring down a charge of 50 grains of 2FG black powder.  As it trickled down the tube, the few grains of powder in the tube blew up and ignited the contents of his fixed powder measure.  Fortunately, Mike was only shaken up and had some very numb and sooty fingers that were quenched in cool water.  The measure was blown far away and he was lucky his head wasn't over the muzzle.

THIS IS WHY WE BLOW DOWN THE BARREL
... get it?

Offline Hanshi

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 06:28:26 PM »
I'm one of those who blow down the barrel after the shot.  I know once the gun has fired that it won't fire again until it's loaded again.  I think it helps keep the vent hole clear.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 10:18:37 PM »
I'm one of those who blow down the barrel after the shot.  I know once the gun has fired that it won't fire again until it's loaded again.  I think it helps keep the vent hole clear.

Same here, be it a flint or cap lock ignition, I want to know those port's are open,,, and if there would by chance be a small ember still smoldering in the breach (such happened with Mike N. by not blowing down the barrel) by the time you finished blowing down the barrel - set the rifle down - charged your charger - pour your charge into the muzzle - well that ember would be long gone.

There's no way IMHO anyone could mistake their muzzle loading firearm going off or not going off... If they don't know the difference, then they are the biggest danger on any firing line - not the person who blows down their barrel after their shot.

 :shake

 
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Offline prairie dog

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2018, 06:41:42 PM »
Getting back to the original topic,
Woods walk flintlock management:

Flintlocks are each and every one a law unto themselves.  Some need more TLC than others.  The point of the woods walk in my opinion, is to work all that out.  A woods walk will get you away from your tool box and teach you what you need to carry in your shooters bag and most importantly, what you do not need to carry in it.

I just came home from a rendezvous where we had a 21 target woods walk.  If your flinter is going to give you any problems it will show up there.  Everyone has a slightly different procedure for loading and maintaining their flint locks according to what their gun likes.  Most of the shooters had no issues completing their 21 shots.  A few had some hang fires and miss-fires with new to them firearms and a couple of shooters had to retire and make repairs. 

I enjoy woods walks and events with 20 to 100 shots.  It exposes any issues you might have with your equipment of procedures so you can correct them. 

BTW- I don't blow into or suck on any part of a firearm. 
Steve Sells

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2018, 09:55:32 PM »
Steve, what kind of event has 100 shots? At my age, I don't think I would have enough time to shoot it. ::)
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Offline prairie dog

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2018, 09:45:09 PM »
"Steve, what kind of event has 100 shots? At my age, I don't think I would have enough time to shoot it."

Saturday before last, our gun club youth event.  I loaded one of my 50 cal percussion rifles 100 + times for the kids to shoot metal silhouettes.  There were three other gentlemen (one with a flintlock) who did the same.  I do this once a year now, in Dallas I did it twice a year with the safari club. 

You will discover any weakness in your equipment.
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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2018, 05:39:35 AM »
Sounds like a lot of fun and work at the same time. I'm afraid I'd be the weakness you're talking about.
Hank in WV
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Offline RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2018, 06:29:32 AM »
MORE than a few times i've had to keep blowing down the tube because there WAS an ember in the chamber that needed to get extinguished,

HOW do you know there is a chamber ember?  as you blow, smoke continues to pour out the touch hole or nipple.  your breath is "fanning the fire".   

normally it takes only one short breath and a quick puff of smoke is expelled, and the mandatory subsequent breath pushes only air, signifying the barrel and chamber and touch hole/nipple are clear and SAFE.

HOW do you know when the smoldering ember is no longer?  when the continued force of your breath stops the smoke from coming out the touch hole or nipple, and only air streams out.

the olde tymers knew a thing or two about their long arm muzzleloaders.

while the act of sticking yer head and mouth over the muzzle to blow down it is forbidden at NMLRA and most local club ranges and matches, a short length of neoprene tubing allows the practice to both abide by the rules and allow the safety check to be effected.

yes, a by-product of blowing down the barrel is that moist breath keeps the bp fouling residue soft, for an easier reload.

Offline waksupi

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 04:12:06 PM »
Of the millions of times we have blown down the barrel, how many actual documented discharges have occured? I bet not enough to be statistically relevant. Someone talked to a lawyer at one time, to get this stupid idea of not blowing down the bore. I'd wager this has caused more accidents than blowing down the tube.

Online rollingb

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 05:51:44 PM »
James Audubon,  circa 1810

"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen."
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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 08:37:10 PM »
As some of you might have noticed over the years, I do have a leaning towards larger than average caliber firearms.  For example, it is pretty difficult to wonder if the rifle went off when it is burning 200 grains of powder and pushing out a 555 grain round ball.  If nothing else, the cloud of smoke in front of you is a definite tell tale sign.

I could really care less about what the NMLRA says, as I seriously doubt if I will ever be shooting at Friendship again.

But, it does seem kinda stupid to go sticking the muzzle of a rifle into your mouth unless you are contemplating suicide.  So, I just don't do it.  If any of you want to, well just go ahead and puff on that puppy, but myself, I think I will refrain.

I recall several years ago, Butler Creek Products brought out a blow tube for muzzleloaders.  I did give it a try and it did feel better than having the rifle barrel in my mouth, but it was kind of a pain in the patutty using it.

So, I think I will just go ahead and continue wiping with a slightly damp patch, if at all.

John
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