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Author Topic: Woods walk flinter gun management  (Read 1904 times)

Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 06:19:00 AM »
if you wipe with a damp or dry lube patch there is no need for barrel blowing and will better care for fouling.

however, for those who don't administer any form of fouling control between shots, you are at risk of a hot spot in the chamber when you pour down a measured charge, just exactly as happened to mr. nesbitt.  you should consider yer options for safeties sake.

the business of individual ownership of control of our lives has been muddied if not watered down or totally removed as the encroaching modern decades and their thinking have pervaded everything in our lives.  we are taught things that make us rely on the opinions and herd mentality of others rather than allowing individual common sense to rule.  just look at all these regulations and outright laws one must contend with in this 21st century as compared the to early 20th century and prior.  today, we are considered just not smart enuf to live a safe life without gobs of control by literally everyone.  we are at the mercy of those whose foremost goal is to protect the stupid at the expense of the smart.  and all at the cost of individual freedoms.  this goes against the laws of nature where the weak and stupid are allowed to be culled out of the genetic strain, to allow the strong and smart to best survive and become dominant.     

Offline AxelP

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 03:25:27 PM »
I do not feel comfortable pointing a gun at ANYTHING that I do not specifically intend to shoot at. My father taught me that as did his father taught him... Dangerous muzzle direction is a bad habit that is universally the cause for every single accidental death by firearm that ever was. I also avoid (as best I can) the leaving any body part over the muzzle of any gun I am cleaning or loading (including my hand on top of the ramrod) be it 18thC or 21stC. You that blow down the muzzle of your gun can huff and puff and call it historically correct, or look at me and call me the result of modern herd mentality or political correctness or whatever you want. You obviously dont know me... and I dont know you so it means exactly nothing either way, but safe barrel direction guarantees that I will never ever shoot anything that I do not specifically intend to... I like experiencing "life" in the 18th C. not death... When I see some shooter sticking a muzzle in their mouth at an event or in the woods, I simply walk away and do my shooting on the line as far away from them as possible. I don't begrudge any man his bad or stupidly arrogant habit (God knows I have plenty), I just have no desire to be a part of, or witness any but my own. That's personal freedom too.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 03:36:58 PM by AxelP »

Offline Roaddog

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2018, 08:50:57 PM »
this is roaddogs wife carol and I am trying to get ahold of riley roaddog has passed away and I need help, so if someone could let riley know that I need to talk to him I would deeply appreciate it. mrs. roaddog
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Online rollingb

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2018, 09:27:33 PM »
Carol,...... I'll send Riley a message and tell him what you said.  :hairy

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rollingb/Rondo
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Offline Riley/MN

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 06:42:30 AM »
this is roaddogs wife carol and I am trying to get ahold of riley roaddog has passed away and I need help, so if someone could let riley know that I need to talk to him I would deeply appreciate it. mrs. roaddog

Carol, if you see this, I have been trying to reach you. Don's email address is not working for me, and I have tried calling multiple times. I will continue trying.
~Riley
><>


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Offline Black Jack

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 03:09:02 PM »
I know there are a lot of rugged, independent minded individuals in our sport, but as a Hunter Safety instructor, I just have to reiterate that blowing down the barrel violates a couple of the primary rules of gun safety: Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, and Always assume the gun is loaded. Some will claim:"But I know I just fired it and it's empty", but it is an unsafe practice and a terrible example to demonstrate to young shooters. Please, don't reply with "It's only 'cause it's P/C" ......I've  heard that one before.
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Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 03:54:12 PM »
it's all good, not a problem for me ... some of us are simply more libertarian individualistic than others.  :*:

however ...

if you wipe between shots, no harm and no foul.

if you do not wipe or blow between shots, you are an accomplice to an unsafe firearm operation.


Online rollingb

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2018, 05:19:23 PM »
Just out of curiosity,.... has anyone ever seen, heard, or read, any historical accounting of anyone being killed "due to" blowing down the bore of a muzzleloader, I mean during the 300 years "prior to" the (20th. century) event claimed by the NMLRA?

Another question,.... what was the person's name that had the accident the NMLRA based their "no blowing" rule on? Where are ALL the pertinent details regarding such a tragic event? (I've never seen any)


If there are/were historical incidents of someone being killed while blowing down the barrel of their muzzleloader, why are we not seeing/finding lots of historical references stating such,... after all, based on several historical accounts, blowing down the bore WAS considered a common practice for more than 300 years?

Since most organizations putting on muzzleloading shooting events, buy their liability insurance through the NMLRA,.... can someone tell me what other liability insurance provider has made a "rule" based upon a singular incident?

I've been blowing down the bores of my muzzleloaders for the last 49 years (ever since 1969) and I haven't blown my head off,.... is it just a matter of time until I do, what are the odds of it happening, and where can I place my bet of it NOT happening????



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Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2018, 05:56:54 PM »
i totally get it with folks having a serious issue with this mouth-over-a-fired-barrel practice.  it can set a very Very VERY bad example for youth and newbies alike, specifically for the overall regard to all firearm safety practices. 

with kids, they don't have the focus of maturity, and newbies of all ages just don't have the experience of the trad ml shooting process.  but kids can mature and newbies can become enlightened and acclimated.

personally, all of this ballyhoo over muzzle blowing is just another compromise of life in these very socialist and litigious times, where the lifestyles of smart people are constantly under the control of the need to assist and perpetuate people who can't seem to overcome their lack of thought process or ability. 

the upshot for me is, if i want to shoot at any of my clubs' ranges, i must abide by their rules, so i blow tube. 




   

 

Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2018, 08:23:06 AM »
but back to the topic at hand ...

did some more out-of-pocket testing with the .40 jack garner and it's just easier to sheath the rod between cleaning and loading.  i also added some tube pouches to the shooting bag, one for clean patches and t'other for the dirty ones.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

* fire
* pull out the rod, flip it around, run a dry lube patch down the tube for fouling control, pull out the rod, flip around and down into the pipes
* measure out the 3f and charge the tube
* patched ball pushed into the muzzle
* rod out (no need for flipping) and push down the patched ball, rod up and back down into the pipes
* clean the lock, pick the touch hole, prime the pan

Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »
Should work just fine.  :bl th up

Usually if loading gets difficult I just slather up a cleaning patch with spit, but there's been times I don't have enough spit to do it in the heat of the day as I spit patch when I load, so I have to dip into my small cleaning fluid container I carry in my pouch to substitute the spit. :shake
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Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
i pre-lube the 2" round arsenal patches with 1:6 moose milk.  the water evaporates and leaves a dry patch that's impregnated with ballistol.  i can use the patch as is, or add some spit as the bore's bp residue dictates.

Offline AxelP

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2018, 11:31:09 AM »
Gun Ranges can be a distraction in themselves... I have seen quite intelligent and very gun savvy folks get distracted and make mistakes on the line. The idea that someone can be "too smart or too experienced" to make these kinds of mistakes is nonsensical, extremely ignorant and reckless. Like RobD stated so well, a "cook-off" can happen even without blowing down the barrel and stirring up an ember.

I usually do not wipe with a wet patch after every shot because that can push wet fouling into the breach and vent, causing ignition problems and more. What I do is shoot with a tightly patched load, and keep anything precious to me away from the muzzle end at all times, and I don't rush to re-load. I have never had premature ignition occur, but I am not going to push my luck and stick my mouth over the muzzle even if I did choose to swab the bore with a wet patch.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 11:40:59 AM by AxelP »

Online RobD

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2018, 01:40:57 PM »
Gun Ranges can be a distraction in themselves... I have seen quite intelligent and very gun savvy folks get distracted and make mistakes on the line. The idea that someone can be "too smart or too experienced" to make these kinds of mistakes is nonsensical, extremely ignorant and reckless. Like RobD stated so well, a "cook-off" can happen even without blowing down the barrel and stirring up an ember.

i respect your opinions with this matter, and i'd trust you'd do the same with mine. 

yes, who's been in this game for decades and hasn't dry balled (yet!)?  smart people do make boo-boo's. 

i would never teach mouth blowing down the barrel to kids or newbies, and have never done so in trad muzzleloader presentations or articles i've written.   using a 12" neoprene blow tube that's sized just under the bore diameter makes the practice safe and sane if you're not wiping for fouling control. 

if you've fired a muzzleloader and immediately pour a new charge down the tube, that is a huge mistake of epic proportions.  either wipe or blow, and both will shut down any glowing embers.  lest you wind up like the unlucky, but lucky, mr. nesbitt.

the bottom line for me is that i see no need for anyone to dictate how i live my life or how i address a trad muzzleloader's fouling control.  i will abide by the rules of the range/club/whatever while i'm at their venue, but otherwise i absolutely will continue to mouth blow down the tube at wherever venue i can do so.  if done immediately after firing, there is no safety issue other than a made up one that has zero real world relevance.  i guess it's a libertarian thing.

I usually do not wipe with a wet patch after every shot because that can push wet fouling into the breach and vent, causing ignition problems and more. What I do is shoot with a tightly patched load, and keep anything precious to me away from the muzzle end at all times, and I don't rush to re-load. I have never had premature ignition occur, but I am not going to push my luck and stick my mouth over the muzzle even if I did choose to swab the bore with a wet patch.

if you properly swab a barrel with a specific type of chamber, there can be no glowing ember left in the touch hole, or nipple, or bolster, or chamber, or tube. 

if you use a patched jag - wet, moist or dry - the compression of that piston going down the tube will send a rush of compressed air down and out whatever orifice yer gun is fitted with, and you should see a quick plume of smoke exit and end.  anything hot within any of those barrel/ignition chambers will get extinguished because the patch jag duplicates lung air.  to be sure, pull up a few inches on the rod and pump down again - no smoke should emanate out the ignition hole as the acid test.

when i use a wet patch, it's always followed by a dry patch - this is crucial.  but this is unnecessary with a dry lube or dry patch.  it's usually also unnecessary, for me, with a barely moist patch.

*LOTS* will depend on the chamber yer cleaning out.  if you have a classic traditional flat faced breech plug, the patch will take care of business.  if you have an offshore gun it will more than likely have a patent breech, so you first run down the patched jag which will push crud into the ante-chamber that will require a patched brush to clean out.  for all the offshore guns i've had, all have been capable of reloading without fouling control, once the gun in question has been sorted out for reliable ignition.  all breeches can also be scraped for any baked on crud.  easy for a flat faced breech plug, not easy for an ante-chamber breech plug.

i have yet to read or hear about both glowing embers and unburned black powder existing anywhere in the chamber or barrel of a just fired trad muzzleloader.  that's literally an oxymoron. 

but let's look at what is possible, and has been recorded to have happened to more than a few trad ml shooters who do not employ any manner of fouling control prior to pouring down that measure of powder into the tube, when there is a hot ember lurking somewhere .... yep, the big bang. 





Offline DeadeyeChrista'sdad

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Re: Woods walk flinter gun management
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2018, 07:45:45 PM »
The brothers Johnston trained me to swab with a damp patch.  Jim Sawyer explained it a little more thoroughly as we went.  I dont have a problem in the world blowing down the barrel after you fire.  But I'm not gonna.  Surprisingly, I made it around the Friendship woods walk with only minor incidents last week.
Black Powder Maniac has a nice video out of his group.

It really is a good shakedown cruise for both your rifle and your technique.