Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Meanwhile on February 10, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
-
I've done some searches and came across Moose Milk. I bought a used TC .50 Hawken percussion rifle and these two cleaners were inside the shotgun box.
I'm assuming the Number Thirteen is similar to Moose Milk, but the other solvent does not smell of anything I recognize.
Any feedback on either fluid? I used the #13 yesterday and it seemed to cut the barrel black very well.
I mentioned a case that came with the rifle. I think it is very handy. After the rifle it is the coolest item.
Randy(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/5227ade997d57329954b003b2816105f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/6cb4052f635daec0642b22216bdf57c5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/b1e61b11c3ece3e53c5704053bf0eb23.jpg)
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
-
No reason not to use it that I know of... When it's used up I would suggest just plain ol' water for cleaning, and after all is dried good, oil up the ol' smoke pole inside and out and you're good to go... :shake
-
firstly, if the gun has been well maintained, there is no need for anything more than tepid tap water to dissolve bp residue.
again, LOTS will depend on how well the gun has been, or was, maintained.
what does "well maintained" mean?
it means to immediately attend to the bbl and lock after the last shot of the day is taken in order to prevent bp residue from getting crusty hard and/or eating the metal.
after that last shot of the day, this is where i use my version of "moose milk", which is a 1:6 (or so) blend of ballistol:water. while it's really the water that does the bp dissolving, ballistol, or most any water soluble oil, is added to the water to protect both the metal and the wood. i run a few moose milk sloppy patches down the tube and leave the last very wet patch (and rod) down the tube (important). then a small pump spray bottle filled with moose milk gets to spritz down the lock. in doing this pre-clean cleaning, the bp residue stays soft for the real cleaning when back at the ranch house.
failure to care for bp residue ASAP will more than likely mean chemicals and nasty concoctions will be required somewhere down the road, usually sooner than later. this makes the purveyors of all those fancy schmancy expensive muzzleloader cleaning potions both happy and rich.
for the real cleaning ...
remove the flint and its leather from the lock, then pull it off the gun and leave it dunked it in a bowl of tepid tap water. the bbl touch hole is plugged with a round toothpick and tepid tap water is poured down the barrel about 1/2 to 3/4 - there is no need for more water than that. leave the gun standing on its butt stock and go attend the lock.
the lock is scrubbed with an old stiff toothbrush, rinsed in clean water, patted mostly dry with a towel (cloth or paper), spritzed wet with either water soluble oil (any kind, i use ballistol) or wd40, patted mostly dry with a paper towel. then all the lock pivot points get a *tiny* drop of gun oil.
back to the tube, pull the toothpick and allow the bbl water to pizz out. a few patched jag passes down and out the tube, until a patch looks *reasonably* clean (it will Never be perfectly clean, which is Correct). for me, this is 2 to 4 patches, rarely more. a few patches to dry the tube, and a final patch with gun oil i sent down to kiss the breech plug and left there.
screw back the lock, load the cock jaws with leathered flint, wipe down the entire gun - metal and wood - with a cotton rag that's very lightly damp with ballistol (or any water soluble oil). done.
before shooting the gun, run some dry patches down the tube to clear out any oil residue, wipe down the lock with a dry cotton cloth.
there now, wasn't that both easy and fun?!
NOTE: there will be an added step or three if the barrel employs a patent breech (this will be true for 99.9% of all offshore trad muzzleloaders).
:*:
-
FWIW; I believe the "Old Thunder" is a creation of our own John Shorb (Bigsmoke) of the TMA.
John once owned October Country, a Muzzleloading Supply store in Idaho.
John will likely see this post and chime in.
I once owned a bottle of Old Thunder, perhaps I still do, but I don't recall seeing it in a while.
Anyway, it works quite well as both a Lube and a Cleaner. I can't recall any complaints I may have had.
In fact, I always somehow thought it was very much akin to the "old" Lehigh Valley Lube that once dominated the Lube / Cleaner field.
Uncle Russ...
-
The bottle says it comes from Bend, OR so just down the road from you. :lol sign
~Kees~
-
John once owned Outdoor Country
Weren't that October Country? Anyway, the bottle says it comes from Bend, OR so just down the road from you. :lol sign
~Kees~
Absolutey Kees
My apologies, I think I corrected the error.
My apologizes to John too.
I suspect it's an old age thingy, and it bugs me at times. Sorry.
Respectfully, uncle Russ...
-
If you are in the market for some "Old Thunder" try http://www.glaciertraditionalarchery.com/. This man bought the Old Thunder rights I do believe, though I could be wrong which wouldn't be the first time.
doggoner
P.S. He is a BIG archery fan so don't be put off by the archery web site name.
-
Oh my, I saw that Ol' Thunder label and then looked closely at it and then saw the Bend, OR address on it. I wonder how many times it has been sold.
I knew a fellow in Redding, CA who claimed to have owned the business. I bought it about 1994 I think from a fellow in Portland, OR. How it got from Redding CA to Bend, I have no idea, but I assume it went from Bend, OR to Portland, OR directly??? Anyway, in 2010(?) I sold it to Glacier Archery who has had it ever since.
Anyway, contrary to some who say that plain old tap water is all you need, I do believe Ol' Thunder is superior. It is a quick, easy bore cleaner and a terrific patch lube. Back in 1999 or 2000, I did win the Coeur d'Alene Muzzleloaders annual shooting top score award, using Ol' Thunder as a patch lube, Hornady round ball, RWS caps, GOEX powder and Ox Yoke patches. I guess any or all of those could have a bearing on the results, but I like to think it was the Ol' Thunder. Were John Fredenburg to jump in here, he could relate some stories about using Ol Thunder with groups of Boy Scouts.
Anyway, good stuff, I heartadly recommend it.
John
-
It is cool that the bottle brought some good memories back. Thanks for the information. I think I'll keep the bottle on the shelf.
-
Its nice to see that some of this stuff has survived into todays times. Granted, I've not used anything but my own concoctions for the last 30+ years, but it's still nice to see some of these things are still around. :bl th up
-
Water worked just fine, to dissolve black powder fouling 500 years ago,... 400 years ago,... 300 years ago,... 200 years ago,... 100 years ago,... and still works fine today. :applaud :*: :)
And it's FREE! :o :hairy
The only thing to gain by "reinventing the wheel", is money,.... and I'd rather keep my money in MY pocket, while carrying on a tradition. ;)
The next thing you know,.... they'll probably try to reinvent muzzleloaders and black powder! :lol sign :laffing
-
Water worked just fine, to dissolve black powder fouling 500 years ago,... 400 years ago,... 300 years ago,... 200 years ago,... 100 years ago,... and still works fine today. :applaud :*: :)
And it's FREE! :o :hairy
The only thing to gain by "reinventing the wheel", is money,.... and I'd rather keep my money in MY pocket, while carrying on a tradition. ;)
The next thing you know,.... they'll probably try to reinvent muzzleloaders and black powder! :lol sign :laffing
Well Rondo, I think Bill Knight has kinda reinvented muzzleloaders, and Pyrodex has kinda reinvented black powder. :Doh!
And as far as water being free, if that is true, how come I pay the city $175 a month for sewer and H20??? That sure don't feel like free to me. I sure do miss having my own well conveniently located in my own back yard.
-
There's a lot to what Rondo says, but the day I introduce my tap water with softener salt in it, just ain't gonna happen, and I don't have an outside bypass tap, so a .99 vent gallon windshield washer fluid works just fine for me. :shake
-
79 cent gallon of distilled water for me. :lol sign
-
79 cent gallon of distilled water for me. :lol sign
I hear ya Rob, sadly the cheap .99 cent windshield washer fluid is the same price as water where I live... I guess I could multi task using water... Let's see, cleaning, drinking, and summer time windshield cleaner.. Lol :lol sign
-
Surely I'm not the only one on this forum who lives in the "boonies", and has their own water well. :o :Doh! :laffing
Snow melt, rain water, or a nearby stream,.... it all works to dissolve black powder fouling. :) :laffing
-
With the price being the same, you can drink either one... :Doh!
-
Hmmmm, interesting things you have to say, BUT,
Snow Melt? at sea level???
Rain water, in a drought area??
A near by stream - see item two.
Not much chance of any of those things being of aid.
Oh well, guess I will just have to use my remaining stock of Ol' Thunder Patch Lube and Bore Solvent. At the rate I have been shooting lately, I think it is a lifetime supply.
John
-
Well my worter is free. Speaking of which I have a well and a spring. I also can get rain and or snow worter when in season. if they are all on annual leave then I have 1000 gallon tank I can get water from a friends shop near the city. I can use it cold an I can use it warm. It arks all the same. :toast
-
One thing about it, these kind of topics have endless opinions... In the end it's your own opinion that you're comfortable with doing that counts. :shake
-
One thing about it, these kind of topics have endless opinions... In the end it's your own opinion that you're comfortable with doing that counts. :shake
exactly. :bl th up
however, truth be told, proper shooting maintenance goes a looooooong way to making the cleaning chore easier.
i see this with folks ALL the time. i look at neglected barrels that have a thick coating of bp residue that also makes loading and ignition a tough chore, and breech plug faces that haven't been cleaned in years. and then there's those patent breeches (this means all offshore built trad muzzleloaders) that are just about plugged up and people wanna know why they get so many pan flashes or at best late ignitions.
negligence means one Must use more than just the primary water because bp residue has been left to harden, which if left too long results in metal mitigation.
"proper maintenance", at least for me, simply means that after the last shot of the day is taken, swab out the bore with moose milk or straight water soluble oil (ballistol, NAPA, etc) or wd40, using a few jagged patches to remove the bulk of the bp residue, then a patch that's sloppy wet with moose milk or water soluble oil or wd40 gets sent down to the breech and left there. this will mean subsequent tube cleaning can easily be accomplished with pure water.
some guns just absolutely requiring lots of fouling control during shooting. they is what they is. pushing off the need for fouling control on those guns makes them not work so well and guys are scratching their heads as to why so many pan flashes are happening.
as always, ymmv! :wave
-
Yes sir, those patent breeches are in a class of their own which require special needs when it comes to a good thorough cleaning,,, (which all smoke poles should receive whether they have the patent breech system, or not)... Once your cleaning methods are mastered there's no ("I hope it goes off") in the back of your mind every time you pull the trigger - and that alone is worthy of better accuracy, believe it or not. :shake
-
"..........and that alone is worthy of better accuracy, believe it or not."
FWIW: Confidence is everything to this old boy!
Years ago, when trying to master the art of Flintlock shooting, I was indeed my own worst enemy once a "misfire" took place.
Although I fully realized what had just happened, my scores went south for the day, and there was darn little I could do to improve after that.
Fortunately, for whatever reason, that no longer happens....I will still on a rare occasion get a pan flash, but it's so rare it does not upset my mental makeup, it just happens and I move on from there with mext shot breaking right where I call it....that comes from confidence in my opinion.
Can't say I clean any different, or do any tut hing else differently, it just seldom happens anymore. My Flintlocks are all over 20 years old, been fired hundreds if not thousands of times, with a misfire being the last thing on my mind.
I suspect all the shooting over the years gives me the confidence to concentrate on only where that ball is going, and not if the gun is going to shoot.
I've cleaned my guns with about everything available on the market that is listed as BP Bore Cleaner, and I have also used just plain old water.
If one should work that much better than the othe other I've never been astute enough to see that difference.
A "proper" cleaning to me means removing all traces of Black Powder, proper drying as in multiple wiping with a clean dry patch, and insuring a good coat of oil is applied to protect the gun and the work you just did. That final coat of oil can be anything of your choosing that going to protect the gun against rust, your real enemy when shooting Black Powder.
My old stand by this last and final chore is a very lite coat of -3 In 1-oil, it has been around forever and it still works like a charm.
Many of the newer oils, ie, RemOil works every bit as good, and it all results in a sure-fire, gun that goes boom every time, and that builds confidence.
Uncle Russ...
-
I have to share one technique I came up with that seems to have worked great for me when coming back from the local Range and cleaning my rifles with the patent breech ("flint and cap lock")
Once my cleaning cycle is done - I turn on my small air compressor and use my left hand to cup the hose end into the muzzle and blast that air through the bore and make sure that breech area is dried out after the good cleaning flushing & swabbing it gets... Have never had a problem with ignition...
I will also mention that I do not use any patent breech rifles at Rendezvous 'cause I can't "air" flush 'em after cleaning... No electricity... :laffing
-
I do/did something 'bout like that Joe. First, I'd do like Rob and do some swabbing at the range leaving a wet patch down the bore.
When I got to my work bench I'd do my cleaning routine and then do dry patches.
NOW...I would put my bench vacuum cleaner hose in the exhaust port and put it on the rifle muzzle using a short hose and step down. Lay the rifle down with the vent hole facing down and hit the go button on the vacuum. While I'm cleaning my lock, there's hot air blowing my Bbl bone dry! :applaud
-
I do/did something 'bout like that Joe. First, I'd do like Rob and do some swabbing at the range leaving a wet patch down the bore.
When I got to my work bench I'd do my cleaning routine and then do dry patches.
NOW...I would put my bench vacuum cleaner hose in the exhaust port and put it on the rifle muzzle using a short hose and step down. Lay the rifle down with the vent hole facing down and hit the go button on the vacuum. While I'm cleaning my lock, there's hot air blowing my Bbl bone dry! :applaud
I like that idea, Al! :bl th up
I bet I could rig up my shop vac to that as well... Ah,,, a Spring project. :bl th up
That really is a great idea for sure! :hairy