Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: 45.70 on May 31, 2010, 12:50:08 PM

Title: Black powder brands?
Post by: 45.70 on May 31, 2010, 12:50:08 PM

Hello all,

I was looking at the Graf and Son web site and noticed they have their own brand black powder.  I've read in some of the other post here that Goex and Swiss shoot differently, and there seems to be different group's that prefer one over the other and visa versa.  I was curious if anyone has tried the Graf brand name powder, and if so what's your thought's on it.  There's not a lot of difference in price, but they do have it in stock.  As usual all opinions are welcome.  

Thanks, Garry

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on May 31, 2010, 02:29:20 PM

Sounds like good stuff, but I don't know if it is produced inside the USA.  It sounds more like the Swiss product, so might be very nice.  I prefer to support GOEX as if you get overseas shipment problems like a trucker's strike or a shipping strike, or if that pesky volcano messes up overseas flights (maybe they don't air ship the stuff anyway) , then you'd only be able to find GOEX..., unless they went out of business.  

LD

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Post by: FG1 on May 31, 2010, 03:43:38 PM

I read somewhere the Graf was a German powder , Wano manufacture I think .

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Post by: 45.70 on May 31, 2010, 03:52:08 PM

LD,

I agree with you on supporting our local economy first.  Graf was "out of stock" on FF and FFF Goex. TOW has some in stock,  but I noticed the Graf brand of BP and was curious.  The ad states it's a German formula, but not where it's produced.  ?? a good question ?? But alas, Im addicted to experimenting with powders, bullets, and loads.  My mom's toaster never did work right after I got my first little tool set.  lol

V/R
Garry

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Post by: Bigsmoke on May 31, 2010, 04:12:34 PM

Frank,
That was what was kind of banging around in my head.  Manufactured by Wano.

Several years ago, I tried some Wano and frankly, I was less than impressed.  As I recall, the fouling was much harder than GOEX and I did not get as good a velocity with comparative charges as I did with GOEX.  

Now, granted I was playing with one of my big bore rifles, and was using maybe double or more what would be used in a .50 or .54, but that was my read on the powder.  Didn't care for it.  YMMV with a smaller bore gun.

The can was pretty slick, though.  It was a round can with a funnel shaped top.  All the powder would pour out of it quite easily.

John

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Post by: pathfinder on May 31, 2010, 07:10:21 PM

In my trade guns I'll use the best price powder,they don't seem to mind. In my rifles,I stick with Goex. I have some DuPont powder that I'll use when I REALLY want to impress folks,I've yet to find a better powder for both accuracy and soft fouling,if any.I was once told by Bill Large that it's because they used Alder charcoal in their formula, and all the other manufacturers used any "charcoal". Not sure if that's what makes the difference,but DuPont is a pleasure to shoot.

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Post by: Fletcher on June 01, 2010, 01:56:13 AM

I did not know that Dupont made a black powder.

Is it Dupont brand?

Where do you buy it?

I have used lots of Dupont smokeles powders.

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Post by: 45.70 on June 01, 2010, 01:58:09 AM

pathfinder,

Did alittle more research.  The Graf powder is made by Wano Schwarzpulver in germany and the formula is with Alder charcoal.  Not sure what the difference is in the charcoals, ad. say it's cleaner burning. But that maybe just advertising wording.  Read a few forums and generally speaking most folks thought it was ok.  Some had to use alittle more powder to equal vel. of Goex.  Mixed reviews on weather it was actually cleaner or not.

V/R Garry

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Post by: pathfinder on June 01, 2010, 08:00:15 AM

DuPont black powder isn't made anymore,the powder I have was purchased at a garage sale for @ $1.00 a pound! The can looks like the Goex can and it does seems cleaner to shoot and even with my eye's nowa little more accurate. When I get back home next month,I'll look at the cans to see if there's any dates on them.

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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on June 01, 2010, 08:08:08 AM

FWIW, To the best of my memory , GOEX was dupont . I had a can of dupont 2ff  that I picked up in S.D. in a antique/thrift store . It was pretty close to GOEX ,  a little cleanmer and had a little more "snap" but the difference wwasn't much.  I will continue to use AMERICAN made GOEX.  I'm not impressed with the attitude ands mind set of Europe in general towardss the private ownership of firearms . Do a little checking on how the German govt. (amongest others in Europe) and I don't think you would enjoy being at their mercy if GOEX were to dry-up . Price is certainly a consideration "but" how long do you think the European product would stay "cheap" if GOEX went under ? How much is your freedom worth ? I'll stay with an" AMERICAN" firm !!!!

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Post by: Hanshi on June 02, 2010, 03:39:26 PM

I still have two cans of Dupont black powder that I bought over 40 years ago.  They are both 4f, however (4f lasts a loooong time).  I shot up my last can of 3f dupont probably 9-10 years ago.  Yes it was good stuff but I can't really say it is any better than Goex.

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Post by: snake eyes on June 03, 2010, 08:04:33 AM

Hanshi,
         I have used G&S powder and liked it....But I always return to Goex. I would have to see a dramatic difference in my shooting
to quit using American made GOEX. I have not had that happen as yet...IMO
snake-eyes

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Post by: vthompson on June 03, 2010, 11:03:20 AM

I too have had great success with my blackpowder firearms using Goex powder. But, in fairness I have never tried anything else but Goex. It goes back to the old saying that if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Plus I have found a local gun shop that keeps it in stock year round.

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Post by: Three Hawks on June 03, 2010, 07:05:55 PM

These days if you find Black Powder for sale, buy as much of it as you are able to, taking out a second mortgage might not be out of the question.  

Supply seems to be catch as catch can all too often and with the halfwits we've got at the top of the food chain in Wash D.C. and most State capitols, it only promises to get worse.

Years ago wheat straw was used to make some of the highest grade sporting powder.   Almost anything that can be converted to charcoal will work.  Except charcoal briquettes.  Those contain about 30% clay, a considerable amount of finely ground coal and some crude oil  to keep things stuck together, proportions depending on what brand you buy.

My two cents worth.

Three Hawks

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Post by: Mitch on June 03, 2010, 07:40:43 PM

have used Graf powder and have no complaints-seems comparable to Goex in fouling and velocity(maybe a shade hotter)....

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Post by: Bigsmoke on June 03, 2010, 09:32:47 PM

Quote

and with the halfwits we've got at the top of the food chain in Wash D.C. and most State capitols

And this just in yesterday.  It seems the idiots in the California assembly have produced a bill outlawing the carrying of unconcealed, unloaded firearms in public.  It is waiting for Arnie's autograph.  Wonder what else those suffering from cranial methane have in store for us.

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Post by: EvilTwin on June 29, 2010, 11:31:10 PM

I have a decent supply of GOEX Express FFG. I use(d) it for my 45-110 Sharps. Best stuff I have used by far. Soft foul and nice and powerful. Tried it in my 62 fowler and soft fouling was still the name of the game.  Worth giving it a try.

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Post by: brewyak on July 16, 2010, 10:18:42 AM

have been using the goex for a while, but recently picked up a couple pounds of swiss.  Now the goex is a back up powder.  The swiss doesn't foul as much as goex and you don't have to use quite as much.  And least that is what I have found out with my 54 cal finter oh yeah I use the FF

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Post by: James Kelly on July 17, 2010, 02:06:53 PM

Likes & dislikes in powder are not all that different from opinions on good whiskey.
For what its worth, the du Pont mill in Moosic, Pennsylvania blew up about 1971. GOEX, by whatever name, bought it & began making powder. They changed the formula slightly, buy using well water rather than condensate from the old steam engine. Amazing what all lives in well water & what it eats. Learnt this from The Expert on black powder, Billm Knight a.k.a. Evil Ogre, Mad Monk, et alia.

"Moist burning" used to sound like rose fertilizer to me, but learned not so. The temperature to which the wood is heated to char it affects how much creosote remains in the charcoal. Disremember the proper temp, might be around 500C but good charcoal makers are careful about charring temperature. In turn, creosote is the only component of black gunpowder that makes water as part of the combustion process.
Me I like Swiss powder, it is hotter than my old duPont. Can't comment on the fouling. Never got around to GOEX. There is a cheap brand

If you find any decent powder, Swiss/GOEX/Schutzen, &c, I agree even in today's market that second mortgage idea isn't all bad.