Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Clothing and Other Crafts => Topic started by: ridjrunr on January 03, 2020, 05:51:39 PM
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I’ve a question for the group, did top hats say 1780-1820 have a sewn binding around the rim?
Tia, ridjrunr
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Dan,.... in an attempt to answer your question, I did several quick searches and came up with zilch.
There just doesn't seem to be much info available on exactly how top hats were constructed. Actually that surprised me a bit. :shake
Maybe you could contact someone who makes and offers custom hats of that period, for some answers. :bl th up
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Thanks Rondo,for earlier fur trade scenes, I always thought a top hat looked neat on a common man or tradesman, even if rough around the edges. Mite be just that I recall some cool artwork from the period(Rickenbacker)idk. I happened into one for only the second time that I can ever remember( that is old),and even stranger, it fit. I walked away not wanting to rush into it for the asking price, but called a few days later to see if a trade was possible :laffing,negatory ,but, it was then 30% off.
I am convinced it is of quality and is beaver felt. Research is in order [ Invalid Attachment ]
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I've got a hat just about identical to that one and I love it. Mine bnb is a bit taller I believe. I believe that they were worn on the edges of the frontier. I've read somewhere that they were but cant for the life of me remember where I read it.
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IMO,.... that's a fine lookin' hat! :hairy :)
Some of the pictures I found of original late 1700's-early 1800's top hats, looked to have brims with a small sharply "rolled" edge,.... in some other original drawings of the times, the details of the drawings make it difficult to tell if the top hat's brim was curled/rolled, or, edged.
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[ Invalid Attachment ] The ? of the"binding rim on a top hat " = depends on several factors !! What quality was the hat ? ($) Was the Hat a "beaver" or "felt (??) Where was the hat made (US, Can, Brit. ---)Was the hat meant to be sold to the "men of quality" ETC, ETC ---
If You are an "NWC/HBC (or other fur trade Co.s) "Freak", as I am = You knot that TOP HATS where WORN + Sold in the Posts, Ft. etc.
1. Clerks- Owners dressed according to their "station" in "normal society" (in fact the HBC Required it !!!) ergo = if they normally wore a top hat amongst their peers., they wore one as a trader !!
2. NWC voyageurs wore top hats (as did some PFC "voyageurs") {there are a #"period" paintings & sketches that show }
3. Sometimes the hats were decorated. In 1806, a list of Rocky Mountain House trade goods included three 'laced' hats (trimmed with gold or silver 'lace' or military braid) and two 'bound' hats . An 1807 and 1808 order form for the Columbia Department of the NWC also included 'velvet bound hats'. { Pictures (attatched)1,2,3 show an an "actual"existing" HBC
(it is a beaver & it sold for $3,5oo++) {pic #3 is a existing HBC beaver(non decorated) --- NOTE the "rims"!!
SO - if you "enact" a "Company Man" (top to bottom) a Top Hat maybe needed !
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Most gawd awful thing a man could have worn for a comfortable/useful head cover!! :Doh! ::)
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Most gawd awful thing a man could have worn for a comfortable/useful head cover!! :Doh! ::)
Agree !!!
In fact even though my "persona" = a "company Man"(& above "clerk ", I do not own or wear a top hot ( I wear a Scottish Tam) :Doh!
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Thank you for chiming in Puffer,for an hour or two this morning researching tophats,time period and styles, most everyone that is credited to the time period has either a rolled edge or more commonly a sewnbinded edge.
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Most gawd awful thing a man could have worn for a comfortable/useful head cover!! :Doh! ::)
I love my top hat! After I finally found one that came close to fitting (I wear a size 8 ) and getting it stretched just a little, mine is as comfortable as my old straw hat.
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Like fashion today, useful and practical are not considerations in stlye.
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:lol sign :lol sign :toast
Like fashion today, useful and practical are not considerations in stlye.
:lol sign :hairy :lol sign
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Like fashion today, useful and practical are not considerations in stlye.
:laffing :laffing
I understand function over fashion but its another aspect of a historical interpritation that I will use. They are worn in many period paintings in alot of different scenarios.
A couple of examples of originals, late 1700's early 1800's
[ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Probably one of the most worn hats by the common man from 1790 to 1820. They had changed a lot by 1830. But they were still popular. ( I’m not sayin’ EVERYBODY wore one, but they were almost that popular). What at the time was known as a round hat. Not to be confused with the earlier rev war type hat of the same name. Everybody wore them. From pauper to the social elite. The Navy, Army, militia, and all. I suggest you check in with Hatter Matthew Brenckle ( he has only a facebook page). IMHO, one of the best authorities on 18th and 19th century headgear. His facebook page is a public page. Look at some of his work.
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Addendum !
If you wish to see some good examples of pre-1840 Round hats, check out Cody’s Mobley’s public facebook page. This was from an 1820-30’s event this past November. (Yes I realize this predates the ambrotype. But they do look nicer than a polaroid!😁).
https://m.facebook.com/RubyAmbrotypes/
Cody even made some of these hats.
The main issue I think that presents itself is many obtain a hat perfect for an 1850-1870 impression when they are trying to do a much earlier impression. To many, this is ok and I don’t care one way or the other. But to others, they wish to do things correct.
The information is out there. Just a matter of homework if you so desire.
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Einsiedler, these leads will help greatly with research or at least get me going in the right direction.
Thank you for posting :shake
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Heres the hat I have
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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Einsiedler, these leads will help greatly with research or at least get me going in the right direction.
Thank you for posting :shake
I hope they lead you in the right direction!!! :) Good luck, and do keep up posted on yoir work!
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I had great discussion with Matthew today and know one including him is making the exactly correct hat today,at least that he knows of. He shared some images of authentic pcs. And the flare to top is more dramatic and the band or tape is narrower. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Great! Matthew did make the hat I am sporting in my avatar.
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Most gawd awful thing a man could have worn for a comfortable/useful head cover!! :Doh! ::)
Agree !!!
In fact even though my "persona" = a "company Man"(& above "clerk ", I do not own or wear a top hot ( I wear a Scottish Tam) :Doh!
Top Hat discussion is brand new info for me, but I agree with you Puffer...a good ol' bonnet is far preferable IMO.
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Those with the flared top look like illustrations out of Alice in Wonderland! :lol sign
~Kees~
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Here's mine in use...
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Those with the flared top look like illustrations out of Alice in Wonderland! :lol sign
~Kees~
I couldn't have said it any better! :lol sign
I believe that if I had to make a choice between a Top Hat and a Dew-Rag, the Dew-Rag would win hands down.
I know they were very popular, even liked by those that chose them, but I still have a problem with that Top Hat...
Good discussion.
Lots of good honest comments.
Keep posting and change my mind!
Russ....
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I gotta stick with my hat, but Rondo brings out the best in a Dew-Rag... :bow :bl th up
(https://i.imgur.com/gJRZfv9.jpg?1)
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This year,.... I'll be sportin' a gray custom hand-made hat I picked up from "Lil' Grizz" at last year's Encampment rendezvous in Wyoming,....... :*: :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx1aQwue5aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz_ia7QX9QM
Anyone interested in one of Lil Grizz's hats,.... can PM me for his contact info. :shake :bl th up
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Lil Grizz makes mighty fine hats! :hairy
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:hairy
I like that hat.