Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: burch on February 21, 2009, 11:04:21 PM

Title: casting RB`s
Post by: burch on February 21, 2009, 11:04:21 PM
We need a forum topic on casting round balls. I`ve always wanted to do that but have never casted any lead.

          Burch
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Post by: mario on February 21, 2009, 11:05:57 PM
Here's a good start:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/runningball.html (http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/runningball.html)

Mario
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Post by: Sir Michael on February 21, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
burch, what questions do you have about casting.  Many of us cast our own here.  What ever you want to know you'll get more than one answer from which you can pick and choose what you want to use.
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Post by: burch on February 22, 2009, 09:07:46 AM
Quote from: "mario"
Here's a good start:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/runningball.html (http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/runningball.html)

Mario

I like it
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Post by: burch on February 22, 2009, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
burch, what questions do you have about casting.  Many of us cast our own here.  What ever you want to know you'll get more than one answer from which you can pick and choose what you want to use.

 I just wanted to keep it simple. I really like the link Mario posted on casting in camp.
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Post by: burch on February 22, 2009, 09:36:39 AM
I`ve checked Dixie`s catalog and they don`t offer much on traditional equipment. Where else can you find equipment ?
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Post by: burch on February 22, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
I found some at TOW
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Post by: Sir Michael on February 22, 2009, 01:21:07 PM
You might want to check out this place.

http://www.smilingfoxforgellc.com/guns4.asp

Is there something specific you are looking for?

For bag moulds, I would contact Rapine.  I don't have their address or phone number.  They don't have a WEB address.
Title: Re: casting RB`s
Post by: wwpete52 on February 23, 2009, 04:58:34 AM
Quote from: "burch"
We need a forum topic on casting round balls. I`ve always wanted to do that but have never casted any lead.

          Burch

Burch, it's a lot of fun and it's easy.  My son and I cast round balls Friday night.  You can get pure lead cheap on Ebay.  The shipping is cheap too since the post office introduced the flat rate shipping boxes.  You really don't need a lot of stuff.  I would suggest, being a beginner, that you purchase a Lee electric lead pot and a Lee round ball mold.  They work just fine and they are real bargins.  Of course you might want to buy a period bag mold but when you are in a hurry the Lee does the trick.  It is also low maintinence.  I've had great luck with them.  I've purchased $100 molds that didn't cast as well as the cheapo Lee molds.  They heat up quick and you don't have to keep them oiled when you don't use them.  They also come with wooden handles.  Lyman and RCBS don't.  Their handles ain't cheap either.
All you need is pure Lead (do not use wheel weights for round balls), an electric lead pot, a mold, an old spoon (to skim with), a box of wooden matches and a candle. That's it! You'll be good to go. You don't need a ladle (dipper) if you have the Lee electric pot when casting round balls.  Casting heavy bullets ( like for a Sharps Rifle) is a different story.
I'm sure that anyone on the forum will be happy to answer any questions that you might have.  I'm always available since I am retired.  Feel free to contact me any time.
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Post by: burch on February 23, 2009, 08:40:35 AM
My buddy and I bought a few things this weekend and was accually casting some balls and hollow base bullets for his rifle. We just got a RB mold, bullet mold, casting ladel, one of those pots, and some lead. After some trial and error we finally came up some that turned out pretty decent. We used Bore Butter for flux. I`m not all that worried about casting 100 balls at a time I just wanted a bag mold and ladel for camping.
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Post by: wwpete52 on February 23, 2009, 10:24:34 AM
Hey that's great!
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Post by: burch on February 23, 2009, 01:35:20 PM
Does anyone use different melting pots other than the ones you get from the casting companys. I`m just trying to be cheap here.  :lol:
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Post by: R.M. on February 23, 2009, 01:40:57 PM
I don't think you'll find anything of better value than a Lee.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 23, 2009, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: "burch"
Does anyone use different melting pots other than the ones you get from the casting companys. I`m just trying to be cheap here.  :lol:


 Burch, i use a small lodge cast iron pot, available at sportsmans wharehouse or any other camping type store, put it on an old coleman stove ans start to melting, the laddle I use has is a lee with the enclosed pour spot on one end, cant get much cheaper than that.
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Post by: Indiana on February 23, 2009, 02:19:44 PM
I use an old pot I found in the garage and either put it on the propane grill or a coleman stove or something of the like.
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Post by: Indiana on February 23, 2009, 02:20:07 PM
Copper is preferred, as the lead will not stick to copper pots as it will to a steel pot.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 23, 2009, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: "Indiana"
Copper is preferred, as the lead will not stick to copper pots as it will to a steel pot.

 Wont stick to a cast iron unseasoned pot either, when Im done casting for the day, i fill the pot again, let it cool overnight, go out and turn the pot over and I have a perfect pot size ingot to start with next time.
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Post by: burch on February 23, 2009, 03:32:56 PM
I think I can get a cast pot from Wally World
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Post by: R.M. on February 23, 2009, 03:56:13 PM
Something to consider. By the time you buy a pot, a dipper, and a stove with fuel, you can just get an electric pot and plug it in.
Mind you, you still need a pot to smelt your lead into usable ingots. Only clean lead should be put into a bottom pour pot.
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Post by: burch on February 23, 2009, 04:38:48 PM
I already have a coleman stove.
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 23, 2009, 04:49:41 PM
another sayety tip here, if your going to add any weight like fishing weights to it, cut off ALL brass or any other metals before you add to the hot pot, else you'll wind up with mount vesuvius spitting and slpattering hot lead, not pretty!
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Post by: Three Hawks on February 26, 2009, 06:34:17 PM
My first pot was one a friend made at work.  It's a 4" length of 4" exhaust tubing welded to a 1/4" plate bottom.     When I started, I used an old stainless steel serving spoon with a pouring lip I bent into one side as a ladle.   The handle got hot in short order so I rivetted scales onto the handle like you would find on a butcher knife.  I heated it on a coleman stove.  

After you get comfortable casting,  you will almost certainly go for more and better tools.   The Lee 20 lb bottom pour is an excellent value and Lee's customer support is superb.  

If you do as I do and lurk in flea markets and ante-kew malls you will find things you can't live without.   Lots of old plumber's furnaces, crucibles and ladles, the odd bullet mold and once in a while a gun the seller has no clue about.  

By the way, excellent fluxes are parrafin and candle wax.   Crushed charcoal floated on your melt is good too, as is clean kitty litter.

Three Hawks
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Post by: Uncle Russ on February 26, 2009, 07:59:29 PM
Quote
By the way, excellent fluxes are parrafin and candle wax. Crushed charcoal floated on your melt is good too, as is clean kitty litter.

I second that notion! :rt th

Kitty Litter is one of the very best fluxes on the market,  and it leaves your pot nice and shinny. This is very important to those who cast a lot.

FWIW: Marvelux, as sold by Brownells, is quite likely the most used flux on the market, and I suspect it does have some good characteristics. However, it is also one of the worst for turning the pot into a nightmare to get clean and that takes valuable time away from actual casting.

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Hank in WV on February 26, 2009, 09:21:19 PM
Just so I have this straight, kitty litter is used as a flux instead of wax?
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Post by: R.M. on February 26, 2009, 09:29:20 PM
From what I understand, anything that contains a lot of carbon can be used. I've even heard of used motor oil working well. Stirring the melt with a very dry wooden dowel works well because of the carbon produced at that temp, and the fact that you get it all the way to the bottom of the pot.
I'd try to avoid used kitty litter though.   :Doh!
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Post by: Fletcher on February 27, 2009, 03:03:19 PM
Watch out for that Wally World cast iron.  It has some chemicals in it and I don't know how long or how bad it might smoke/stink.  I really think you would be better with a real Lyman pot, or go to a plumbing supply and get a plumbers cast iron pot.  I have one of those - it is much bigger than the Lyman and I use it for melting down bigger scrap.  I then pour the lead into bars using my Lyman ingot mould (4 @ 1lb bars)
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Post by: Indiana on February 27, 2009, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
Quote from: "Indiana"
Copper is preferred, as the lead will not stick to copper pots as it will to a steel pot.

 Wont stick to a cast iron unseasoned pot either, when Im done casting for the day, i fill the pot again, let it cool overnight, go out and turn the pot over and I have a perfect pot size ingot to start with next time.

Didn't know that!  +1

 :shake
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Post by: Uncle Russ on February 27, 2009, 03:51:30 PM
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I'd try to avoid used kitty litter though.

:rotf

If it has been used / recycled, then I would certainly avoid it too. However, since in it's out of the bag form, it is no more than clay and it works like a charm.

Bob, Ya gotta try it some time!
In fact, knowing you, I would bet a nickle against a hole in doughnut that you already use it.

FWIW: And I certainly don't want to get off the subject here.....
However, for the folks that still have a lot of doubt about the use of simple kitty litter, and if you're still interested in getting a good flux, and pouring a really good projectile, you might want to Google up Glenn Fritzell of IHMSA cast boolit fame, who can give a great  technical reason on how & why it works so well.
Unfortunately I don't have that link handy.  

Also it's important to know why you need a good flux. Is it for binding alloys, or separating / un-binding certain alloys?
Do you know if you are using pure lead.... which is extremely hard to find, or are you using "pure lead" from the junk yard (which is seldom pure) or perhaps a mixture of alloys such as found in common wheel weights?
Or, which is the case most of the time, or are you just fluxing because someone said that is what you're supposed to do???

You can easily get by without knowing any of this, but if you want to cast the best boolit possible then you may want to look a little deeper into this subject....it is a wonderful hobby, all in its own, and it does add a certain little something to the fact that you know, and made, what your shooting.

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Three Hawks on February 27, 2009, 06:43:54 PM
Once again, I'll say this.  As Russ says PURE lead is almost impossible to find.  If you can scratch it with your fingernail, call it lead.  I have skimmed the dross off of my melt sometimes and found the remainder to be soft enough for ML projectiles.  

The  dross is very toxic, however and must be handled as if it were cyanide.  I double bag my dross in heavy freezer bags and put it in the garbage.  I really don't like having it around the house.

Laugh as you will at kittly litter, it really cleans up your pot.  Dunno what's in it, don't care.  It's incredibly cheap and it works.

I love cheap.

Three Hawks
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 27, 2009, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: "Three Hawks"

Laugh as you will at kittly litter, it really cleans up your pot.  Dunno what's in it, don't care.  It's incredibly cheap and it works.

I love cheap.

Three Hawks

 Yep ol 3Hawks resembles that remark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotf
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Post by: Sir Michael on February 27, 2009, 07:57:00 PM
which scent do you use? :hey-hey  :toast  :shake
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Post by: Gambia on February 28, 2009, 03:11:59 PM
OK, I have been watching this for a couple days, could some one please go into some details about how to flux, When to flux, how much to flux....any and everything about fluxing. and any other details about running balls.
details, I need details  :)
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Post by: Sir Michael on February 28, 2009, 03:25:51 PM
Ahhhh the fine art of fluxing. :hairy
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Post by: R.M. on February 28, 2009, 03:30:10 PM
Griz, and other interested parties, there's another board that at least Russ and I frequent, maybe more, that is all about casting lead bullets (though they spell it Boolits. If there's anything you want or need to learn about casting and more, you'll find it there.
It might be better just to send you there, rather than try and type it all out, cause I don't type that good or fast.  
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/)

As far as fluxing goes, a pea sized chunk of wax works well, as does various other materials.  I sometimes use well dried sawdust as well as kitty litter. Add it to a pot of hot lead and stir. It'll probably ignite, so it's just easier to put a match to it and burn off the smoke ahead of time. Stir it good, and then scrape off the sludge. You probably want to do this at the start and then half way through a 10# pot.
Fluxing has a duel purpose, to help the alloy mixed, and to get the impurities to float to the top. Myself, I feel that the stirring brings more crap to the top than the flux, but I still do it.
If you have more questions, feel free to ask.
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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on February 28, 2009, 04:03:52 PM
Like most other things. Casting ball can be as cheap or expensive as you care to make it.I prefer to keep things cheap and simple.  For what reason I don't know , but casting up 50 -100 ballls is pretty relaxing. I've had the best luck using beeswax as a flux.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on February 28, 2009, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: "griz"
OK, I have been watching this for a couple days, could some one please go into some details about how to flux, When to flux, how much to flux....any and everything about fluxing. and any other details about running balls.
details, I need details  :?  
Glenn's writings seem to be more down to earth, and easier to understand. )

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm (http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm)

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: burch on February 28, 2009, 07:54:20 PM
I found my bag mold. TOW has several. So where do I find a nice traditional ladle ?  I`ve seen the folding type and that`s a pretty good idea.  Something like the one in the article " Let`s Run Some Ball " is also pretty cool lookin` or maybe something forged.  I`d like one for camping so it`ll have to fit in my possible`s bag. I know some here has to be making this stuff.
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Post by: Sir Michael on February 28, 2009, 09:25:29 PM
Would this be some what like what you are looking for?

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8091
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Post by: burch on March 01, 2009, 08:54:03 AM
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
Would this be some what like what you are looking for?

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8091

That`s the folding type i`ve seen. Not too bad but a hand forged one would really be neat.  :)
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Post by: Sir Michael on March 01, 2009, 12:54:33 PM
Something more like this?

http://www.smilingfoxforgellc.com/details.asp?id=90

I have a similar one I got from Rapine but you have to deal with them either on the phone or via snail mail.
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Post by: burch on March 01, 2009, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
Something more like this?

http://www.smilingfoxforgellc.com/details.asp?id=90

I have a similar one I got from Rapine but you have to deal with them either on the phone or via snail mail.

  Now that I do like. Is that handle hollow for a green stick ?
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Post by: Sir Michael on March 01, 2009, 04:34:36 PM
It looks kind of on the crude side to me.  I got this one from Rapine.  It is made of Copper and holds enough lead to case two  .610 balls.

[albumimg:2l3afipt]3714[/albumimg:2l3afipt]

[albumimg:2l3afipt]3715[/albumimg:2l3afipt]

I found their address

Rapine Bullet Mould Mfg. Co.
9503 Landis Lane
East Greenville, Pa 18041

215-679-5413
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Post by: burch on March 01, 2009, 04:40:13 PM
Quote from: "Sir Michael"
It looks kind of on the crude side to me.  I got this one from Rapine.  It is made of Copper and holds enough lead to case two  .610 balls.

[albumimg:2ug1wx3u]3714[/albumimg:2ug1wx3u]

[albumimg:2ug1wx3u]3715[/albumimg:2ug1wx3u]

I found their address

Rapine Bullet Mould Mfg. Co.
9503 Landis Lane
East Greenville, Pa 18041

215-679-5413

   have no problem with it looking crude and that`s pretty much like the one I saw. It also looks small enough for a bag ladle.  I like it.