Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Caplock Long Guns => Topic started by: wwpete52 on April 24, 2009, 03:53:29 PM

Title: Magnum Cape Gun
Post by: wwpete52 on April 24, 2009, 03:53:29 PM

Years ago Dixie Gun Works sold a .69 caliber "Magnum Cape Gun" that was made by Euroarms.  Do any of you guys remember that one?

Title:
Post by: mario on April 24, 2009, 04:09:38 PM

Yup. Single barrel, half-stock. Soooo nice...

Mario

Title:
Post by: jbullard1 on April 24, 2009, 04:20:17 PM

Pedersoli (sp) has a .72 double now

But that ain't a Cape Gun is it

Title:
Post by: Christiaan on April 28, 2009, 03:40:56 AM

Cape gun has a double meaning.

Firstly it means a gun that was made or sold by one of the Cape gunsmiths in South Africa and documented in the book The Cape Gunsmith by the late Barry M. Berkovitch.  This book is now out of print.

The second, and most accepted, meaning is a Double Muzzleloader or BP cartridge double that usually have one big rifled barrel and one smoothbore shotgun barrel.  Pedersoli makes a superb .58/12ga Cape Gun.

The Cape frontier farmer would then have a gun to shoot either four legged animals or feathered food whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Here are some pics of a beautiful John Hayton (one of the most famous Cape gun dealers) Cape gun.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/Christiaan777/CopyofIMG_0917.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/Christiaan777/CopyofIMG_0839.jpg)

Very few examples of original Cape Guns survived the frontier abuse.  Good quality Cape Guns fetch very high prices.

I have visited Euroarms factory in Brescia, Italy a few years ago and can assure you they don't make a Cape Gun anymore.

Title:
Post by: Christiaan on April 28, 2009, 03:46:42 AM

Pedersoli now make their Gibbs rifle in .72 cal, which could qualify as a large caliber single barrel "Cape Gun". Because Cape Guns were English style bigger caliber guns.

Title:
Post by: Christiaan on April 28, 2009, 03:55:31 AM

Quote from: "jbullard1"

Pedersoli (sp) has a .72 double now

But that ain't a Cape Gun is it

Jerry, I think it might qualify as a few double rifled barrels were made or sold in the Cape colony.  W. G. Rawbone sold a Double 4 bore    elephant gun serial #2569.  It must have been a monster and pretty unpleasant to carry and shoot. If the Pedersoli was .72/.10Ga it would definitely qualify.

Title:
Post by: wwpete52 on April 28, 2009, 04:37:04 AM

The Euroarms Magnum Cape Gun was a smoothbore with one octagon to round barrel.

Title:
Post by: Spotted Bull on April 28, 2009, 06:06:45 AM

I'd love to have that double .72!!

That is a sweet looking longarm there too Christiaan

Title:
Post by: Christiaan on April 28, 2009, 09:47:16 AM

It really is sweet, Roaring Bull.  Pity its not mine.

FYI, ..Last year we asked Pedersoli to make the Gibbs in .72 for Africa.  The first ones will be shipped this week.  I can't wait to try one.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/Christiaan777/Copy_of_IMG_0134.jpg)
We asked for a ghost ring rear sight and that is what they did.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/Christiaan777/Copy_of_IMG_0136.jpg)

Title:
Post by: Bigsmoke on April 28, 2009, 11:32:59 AM

About 11 or 12 years ago, I visited Dixie Gun Works and took a good look at the Rawbone double that Turner Kirkland had bought in England for the princely sum of $100 several years before that.  The story of that can be read in the first edition of the Lyman Black Powder book.

Anyway, it is a sweet, sweet double rifle.  It is about a .90 caliber and IIRC it weighs about 18 pounds.  It doesn't seem like it has seen a lot of use or abuse.  Turner took this rifle on a hunt with writer Jim Carmichael and in fact did kill an elephant with it.
If that gun is typical of Rawbone, he did mighty fine work.

Being called a 4 bore and having bores of about .90 caliber does bring up an interresting point.  It seems to me that the concept of bore then is more like "more or less" than it is abouot "exact".  Roughly, I think a .90 caliber gun would be more like 6 bore, but yet they are calling it a 4 bore.  I have seen that before with other guns.  4 bore is more like an one inch hole.

Title:
Post by: Spotted Bull on April 28, 2009, 12:46:35 PM

I thought that "bore" was more of a measurement of how many round lead balls that size weighed 1 pound.  But I could be mistaken.  

I found this chart on the BP Firearms forum that CowboyCS hosts.


Bore         ~              Caliber
A   ~   2.000
B   ~   1.938
C   ~   1.875
D   ~   1.83
E   ~   1.75
F   ~   1.688
1    ~   1.669
H   ~   1.625
J   ~   1.536
K   ~   1.5
L   ~   1.438
M   ~   1.375
2    ~   1.325
O   ~   1.313
P   ~   1.25
3   ~   1.157
4    ~   1.052
5    ~   .955
6    ~   .919
7    ~   .873
8    ~   .835
9    ~   .803
10   ~   .775
11    ~   .751
12    ~   .729
13    ~   .710
14    ~   .693
15    ~   .677
16    ~   .662
17    ~   .649
18    ~   .637
19    ~   .629
20    ~   .615
21    ~   .605
22    ~   .587
24    ~   .579
25    ~   .571
26    ~   .563
27    ~   .556
28    ~   .550
29    ~   .543
30    ~   .537
31    ~   .531
32    ~   .526
33    ~   .520
34    ~   .515
35    ~   .510
36    ~   .506
37    ~   .501
38    ~   .497
39    ~   .492
40    ~   .488
41    ~   .484
42    ~   .480
43    ~   .476
44    ~   .473
45    ~   .469
46    ~   .466
47    ~   .463
48    ~   .459
49    ~   .456
50    ~   .453
51    ~   .450
52    ~   .447
53    ~   .444
54    ~   .442
55    ~   .439
56    ~   .436
57    ~   .434
58    ~   .431
59    ~   .429
60    ~   .426
61    ~   .424
62    ~   .422
63    ~   .419
64    ~   .417
65    ~   .415
66    ~   .413
67    ~   .411
68    ~   .409
69    ~   .407
70    ~   .405
71    ~   .403
72    ~   .401
73    ~   .399
74    ~   .398
75    ~   .396
76    ~   .394
77    ~   .392
78    ~   .391
79    ~   .389
80    ~   .387
81    ~   .386
82    ~   .384
83    ~   .383
84    ~   .381
85    ~   .379
86    ~   .378
87    ~   .377
88    ~   .375
89    ~   .374
90    ~   .372
91    ~   .371
92    ~   .370
93    ~   .368
94    ~   .367
95    ~   .366
96    ~   .364
97    ~   .363
98    ~   .362
99    ~   .361
100   ~    .360
101   ~    .358
102    ~   .357
103    ~   .356
104    ~   .355
105    ~   .354
106    ~   .353
107    ~   .352
108    ~   .350
109    ~   .349
110    ~   .348
111    ~   .347
112    ~   .346
113    ~   .345
114    ~   .344
115    ~   .343
116    ~   .342
117    ~   .341
118    ~   .340
119    ~   .339
120    ~   .338
121    ~   .337
122    ~   .3365
123    ~   .336
124    ~   .335
125    ~   .334
126    ~   .333
127    ~   .332
128    ~   .331
129    ~   .330
130    ~   .3295
131    ~   .329
132    ~   .328
133    ~   .327
134    ~   .3265
135    ~   .326
136    ~   .325
137    ~   .324
138    ~   .323
139    ~   .322
140    ~   .3215
141    ~   .321
142    ~   .320
143    ~   .319
144    ~   .3185
145    ~   .318
146    ~   .317
147    ~   .316
148    ~   .3155
149    ~   .315
150    ~   .314

Title:
Post by: Bigsmoke on April 28, 2009, 01:01:31 PM

Hey, that's a great chart, RB.

Good news for all you Crocket .32 shooters, you're actually shooting a 150 bore gun.  That sounds mighty impressive!!!

IIFC, in the Dixie Gun Works catalog, in the reference section at the back, they also list bore sizes and after they go 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 bore, it goes into an alphabetical mode, like A Bore, B Bore, C Bore, etc. up to over 2 inches.

Title:
Post by: jbullard1 on April 28, 2009, 01:57:23 PM

Oh Man
Just wait until our next shoot and I pull out my 150 bore  :lol  

Title:
Post by: Bigsmoke on April 28, 2009, 02:34:51 PM

Here's the business end of a double 4 bore.  .530 ball shown for perspective.

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii161/bigsmoke72/4BORE023_edited.jpg)

Title:
Post by: Spotted Bull on April 28, 2009, 02:46:52 PM

Updated the list to include the letters!!

Title:
Post by: wwpete52 on April 29, 2009, 07:27:05 PM

I sure would like one of those Euroarms Magnum Cape guns for the smoothbore shoots.  I had a chance to buy one on GunBroker about a year ago and my son talked me out of it.     I remember when they were in the Dixie catalog years ago.  I've always really liked the way they look.  Maybe another one will show up one of these days.

Title:
Post by: chuckpa on June 20, 2009, 05:13:13 PM

There  is a Pedersoli double in .72 for sale at Dixon's Gun  Shop in Kempton PA.

Title:
Post by: jmforge on July 01, 2009, 05:58:38 PM

From what I have been reading,"Cape Gun" or "Cape Rifle"was also the name that Greener used for their "winged bullet" high velocity percussion rifles that were similar to the Purdey "Express Train" rifles ,the name of which was later shortened to "Express."

Title:
Post by: chuckpa on July 01, 2009, 09:38:08 PM

That Pedersoli Double in Dixion,s is a rifle in .72 caliber.

Title:
Post by: SR James on December 01, 2009, 02:44:05 PM

Keep looking Pete.  I got this Magnum Cape Gun off of Gunbroker very recently, and at a good price.  It was made in the mid-80s and was never fired until I got it.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/srjames/perc123.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/srjames/perc122.jpg)

Title:
Post by: IronDawg on December 01, 2009, 06:43:47 PM

Quote from: "bigsmoke"

Here's the business end of a double 4 bore.  .530 ball shown for perspective.

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii161/bigsmoke72/4BORE023_edited.jpg)

HOLY!!!................ Are you serious?? Thatsa .530 sittin in the barrel?? Geez man I thought to be period correct cannons hadda have wheels under em!

Title:
Post by: Kermit on December 01, 2009, 08:02:51 PM

I thought we were talking about the Euroarms Magnum Cape Gun? I had one of 'em in my precussin' gun days. It WAS sweet. Busted a lot of birds and clays with it. If you find one, don't hesitate to buy it.

A flinter of the same ilk would be most welcome.

Title:
Post by: wwpete52 on March 15, 2011, 04:59:09 PM

I finally found a Magnum Cape Gun! I picked it up today.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/wwpete52/capegun1.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/wwpete52/capegun2.jpg)

Title:
Post by: Bigsmoke on March 15, 2011, 07:54:27 PM

How long you going to keep that one, he querried?

Title:
Post by: Double Barrel on March 16, 2011, 12:14:48 PM

Nice catch there Pete!

Title:
Post by: wwpete52 on March 17, 2011, 01:47:47 AM

Quote from: "bigsmoke"

How long you going to keep that one, he querried?

I've been looking for one for several years.  It's a keeper.

Title: Re:
Post by: Uncle Russ on March 18, 2011, 02:52:41 PM

Quote from: "wwpete52"

Quote from: "bigsmoke"

How long you going to keep that one, he querried?

I've been looking for one for several years.  It's a keeper.

Swapper, it's not nice to tell stories to your friends, dont'cha know.

Uncle Russ...