Post by: Minnesota Mike on September 01, 2009, 11:05:29 AM
And is it really worth it from a time/cost perspective vice just buying them?
r/
MM
Post by: FG1 on September 01, 2009, 11:42:37 AM
Post by: R.M. on September 01, 2009, 11:48:19 AM
I truly believe it's a cost saving measure, as well as a type of hobby. You can start with the bare essentials, and upgrade as you go if you wish.
Post by: Bigsmoke on September 01, 2009, 11:49:27 AM
Some people really like doing it, others view it as a necessary evil. I don't really care to do it, but it's acceptable. Also, If you need a size not readily available, it's almost mandatory. For example, my 20 bore likes .610, my 14 bore rifle likes .678 and my 8 bore needs .820. Sorry, my local sporting goods store doesn't carry those sizes, so - what else you gonna do but cast your own.
Is it worth it from a time/cost viewpoint? Probably not, but when viewing it as entertainment, it becomes more acceptable. Plus, what is your time worth? How easy is it to get good lead? Do you have the time to do it? All questions you need to answer for yourself.
Post by: melsdad on September 01, 2009, 12:16:31 PM
Post by: david32cal on September 01, 2009, 12:25:20 PM
Post by: R.M. on September 01, 2009, 12:33:17 PM
I then use bottom pour pots to cast with.
You could use the same pot that you melt ingots with to dipper-cast. So to get started, you need a pot, ladle, heat source such as a camp stove, and a mold. When using an electric pot, it's best to just use clean ingots in it. Have a separate pot for smelting.
You can get started pretty cheaply, and there's lots of lead out there if you just look. It can come from some of the strangest sources.
Post by: Bigsmoke on September 01, 2009, 01:19:05 PM
Quote
It can come from some of the strangest sources.
Sheathing for power lines - however it is usually pretty oxidized.
Used in walls around x-ray rooms - great stuff, usually in 1/8" sheets - that's what I use.
I think it is used in some roofing applications.
Mine the area where your local black powder club shoots
Tire shops
Old plumbing
Post by: biliff on September 01, 2009, 01:48:01 PM
How many you can cast per hour depends on your setup with simpler setups being slower (casting pot, hand ladle, single cavity mold). Even a simple setup should let you do 80-100 in an hour once you get the hang of it. Biggest problem is keeping the lead and mold at a good temperature.
Most of the safety stuff seems to have been covered all ready except for water. DON'T ever drop anything wet into a pot of molten lead (like when returning sprues/bad castings) into the pot. The water instantly vaporizes and blows molten lead all over the place.
Post by: R.M. on September 01, 2009, 02:00:51 PM
Post by: Sir Michael on September 01, 2009, 02:36:52 PM
The first thing I'd recommend is you figure out exactly what size ball you need and then get a mold block that size and handles (leave the bag mold till latter unless you really want one).
As has already been said pure lead can either be purchased or you can gather lead from any of a variety of sources.
Once you have the mold and lead you will need a pot (most folks use a small cast iron one. You can also get a bottom pour pot if you don't want to use a ladle. If you go with the iron pot you will need a ladle (there are a variety of types from simple over-sized spoons to special cast types made expressly for pouring lead). If you go with an iron pot you will need a heat source. Many use a camp stove or you can use a propane torch. If you go with the bottom pour pot you won't need a stove or other heat source. You may also want to invest in a good thermometer (one that goes up to at least 900 deg and is made for metal casting).
Fireplace or welders gloves are a good investment as is a leather shop apron.
DO NOT ALLOW ANY WATER ANYWHERE NEAR WHERE YOU ARE CASTING. IF YOU SWEAT A LOT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A SWEAT RAG HANDY, KEEP IT IN YOUR BACK POCKET, AND MOVE AWAY FROM THE LEAD WHEN YOU WIPE YOUR BROW.
Good ventilation is must as well as has been said.
Lead melts at 327.5 deg C (621.5 deg F) you will need to get it hotter than just melted to to cast good balls. Also you will need to get the mold hot and keep it hot to cast good balls.
Once you get started you should develop a rhythm and you will find yourself not wanting to stop but the pot keeps needing to refilled with lead so you will have to.
Post by: Three Hawks on September 01, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
I'd recommend an electric pot, Lee has several that are very good and not at all expensive. The instruction sheet that comes in the box is very good. The convenience, and safety of an electric melter cannot be overstated.
MidwayUSA http://www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com) Midsouth Shooter's Supply http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com (http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com) or Graf's http://www.grafs.com (http://www.grafs.com) usually have excellent prices and service.
Using a coleman stove and a frying pan will work, of course, but I always try to discourage that. Dedicated casting gear designed and made for melting and handling hot lead is always a better choice.
A question not often asked is what happens in the future if your cool old iron kettle or dutch oven you use for a casting pot or the cornstick or muffin pans that make such good ingots ends up back in the kitchen?
Would you like to have your grandkids eating food lovingly cooked in Grampa's old lead pot, you know, the one that looks exactly like a dutch oven?
I still have my original casting pot, made from a short piece of 4" exhaust tubing with a bottom welded into it and a ladle made of an old iron spoon, reshaped, cut short and driven into a piece of broomstick for a handle. I have an ooooold Coleman 502 stove for a heat source. A small, bright fire would do as well.
Your mileage, as always, may vary.
Three Hawks
Post by: FG1 on September 01, 2009, 03:57:38 PM
Casting for me is relaxing and fulfilling just as building a gun or shooting is . As I see it , it goes hand in hand .
Post by: Kermit on September 01, 2009, 04:37:44 PM
If you don't immediately spring for a bottom pour pot, like the inexpensive Lee's (and I've been using one for about 25 years), and opt to pour from a ladle, both
Lyman
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=286579 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=286579)
and RCBS
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=283142 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=283142)
make dandy little cast iron ladles that have a little round spout that really controls where the lead goes. The RCBS is pricier by a few bucks, but can be converted for left-handed use. They also can be held against the mold as the lead hardens and shrinks so you reduce the number of balls/bullets you replace in the pot cuz they have holes where a sprue should be. You wind up with smaller sprues too--more casting and less remelting.
BUT the first question you need to ask is where you are going to get your lead. If you buy clean and pure lead, you can get started with a smaller investment. Smelting scrap will take a little more equipment.
All this said, I cast everything I shoot except shot and #4 buckshot that I feed my .25 flinter. Somebody, SAECO I think, makes a .240 buckshot mold, but 5lbs of shot is a LOT of wee balls, and I can buy more than I'll shoot in my lifetime for the cost of that one mold.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on September 01, 2009, 05:19:07 PM
Post by: R.M. on September 01, 2009, 05:51:08 PM
Post by: Three Hawks on September 01, 2009, 06:43:28 PM
Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
One other safety issue, if you find old fishing weights and want to melt them down, make sure you have cut ALL the brass fittings from them ( if they have them such as snaps and barrel swivels etc.) BEFORE YOU DROP IT INTO A HOT POT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mount Vesuvious time if you dont, please dont ask how I know this, its dang ugly!
What Beav said.
If I salvage old fishing sinkers, I do it with a hand held propane torch, letting the lead melt off the main body of the sinker into a #10 tin can. You'd be amazed at the crap I've found in sinkers. I don't often use them any more, too risky.
I don't think the brass wire and things are particularly bad, but I'm sure water seeps in around the loops. Also those dang bead chain swivels will harbor drops of water for a long time. I think the salt left in them from salt water drying in the swivels isn't a good thing either as salt is hygroscopic (attracts water) and will be wet if it's at all moist out.
I do my casting in the garage, with the rollup door in front and the back door and window all open for cross ventilation.
Three Hawks
Post by: FG1 on September 01, 2009, 08:41:37 PM
Had a big fly commit suicide once by dive bombing my lead pot and the resulting pop splattered a little lead spray.
Post by: Sean McKown on September 02, 2009, 08:11:36 PM
I use a cast iron lead pot(holds about 30 #) and a turkey fryer burner. I usually cast with 2 molds, when one get too hot, I switch to let cool down, speeds up production that. I have a new rifle that almost finished so I cast 1000 .54 cal balls last weekend, gonna be a big weekend at the range.
Post by: wwpete52 on September 03, 2009, 10:11:59 AM
The Lee electric lead pot is easy to use and it is cheap. Search ebay for a used one or a great price on a new one.
I recommend a Lee round ball mold because they come complete with handles, are cheap and heat up fast.
The old dinner spoon is used to scrape off the slag on top of the lead in the pot. Slag=the junk that floats to the top of hot lead.
The candle is used as a flux in the lead pot. Every once in a while you'll want to drop a tiny piece of wax in the pot to keep the lead clean and flowing.
Lead. Here's the great part. Ebay has pure lead cheap if you can't get it locally. The United States Post Office really helps with their flat rate boxes. There is a seller right now that has pure lead (NOT WHEEL WEIGHTS) for less than $48 shipped for 50+ pounds! That's less than a $1 a pound. That ain't bad!
That's it. It's fast, easy and cheap once you get setup. You don't even have to break the bank getting setup. Remember this one word: EBAY! If you are patient and keep looking on Ebay you will be able to find what you need cheap. There are rip offs on Ebay but just be patient. A good deal will come up. Track of the Wolf is a reasonable online seller for new stuff.
For my friends on the forum that haven't used Ebay much: Please get yourself a PayPal account and become an Ebay member! I can't even begin to tell you some of the awesome deals I have found not to mention the sells I have made.
I repeat: Don't be intimidated about casting ball. It's A LOT cheaper than buying pre-cast balls and it's easy.
Post by: bluelake on September 04, 2009, 01:27:21 AM
I have an old electric melting pot and it works just fine. It takes about fifteen minutes before it's hot enought to melt, but it really gets going after that. Next summer, I may try something different, but we'll see.
Post by: melsdad on September 04, 2009, 06:37:41 AM
So what is the to do, or not, to do on wheel weight lead?
Thanks
Brian
Post by: bluelake on September 04, 2009, 07:39:59 AM
Quote from: "melsdad"
I have been told by different people that wheel weight lead is to hard, but I also still hear of alot of people using it to cast round balls.
So what is the to do, or not, to do on wheel weight lead?
Thanks
Brian
I dunno. I cast and shot a lot of balls out of WW lead this past summer--they shot well and nothing seemed the worse for wear. Still, here's a web page on possible problems (mainly with weight differences between different wheel weight alloys): http://home.earthlink.net/~potomac008/Lead%20Alloys.htm
Post by: Sean McKown on September 04, 2009, 09:17:15 AM
That being said I use soft lead for hunting.
Post by: R.M. on September 04, 2009, 09:49:58 AM
Post by: biliff on September 04, 2009, 10:42:43 AM
Quote
So what is the to do, or not, to do on wheel weight lead?
As others said for PRB its probably not a big deal. If you're shooting a C&B revolver, though, you might bend your loading lever trying to swage 'em into the chamber.
Post by: bluelake on September 04, 2009, 06:06:42 PM
Quote from: "biliff"
QuoteSo what is the to do, or not, to do on wheel weight lead?
As others said for PRB its probably not a big deal. If you're shooting a C&B revolver, though, you might bend your loading lever trying to swage 'em into the chamber.
This is just from my own personal experience, but I cast and shot not only RB for my C&B out of WW, but also conicals. Again, just like with the PRB I made for my matchlock musket and flintlock pistols, I had no problems; they pushed right into the chambers with no extra effort compared with RBs I bought. YMMV (Your mileage may vary).
Post by: wwpete52 on September 07, 2009, 12:00:53 AM
Post by: rickevans on September 07, 2009, 09:21:04 AM
Post by: vermontfreedom on September 12, 2009, 09:26:42 PM
about 2-3 years ago I asked myself the same question (cast own or buy). Back then I was shooting about 600 rounds a year out of my then only ML, a .54 flintlock.
I actually did a bunch of calculations to compare economy of buying balls (then about $11 per 100 for 0.530 or 0.535) versus casting. Assuming I could find free lead, I figured with buying a standard (dip-style) Lee electric pot, Lyman single mold and used handles, and dipper, it woule take me 2-3 years to pay off the investment in the equipment.
However, I've since dropped to shooting perhaps only 100-200 rounds per year (many other new obligations have prevented as much range time as I used to enjoy).
But I came in to about 60 pounds of free lead and, very importantly, I started recapturing my balls and am able to collect about 80-90% of lead I shoot merely by shooting into magazines stuffed into cardboard boxes.
Lastly, there are the intangibles mentioned by others: the sheer enjoyment of making your own, particularly gratifying to use your own balls to harvest game!!!
BOTTOM LINE: if you shoot a couple of times per year, have only 1 or 2 round ball MLs, and hunt (and fire) just a few times per year, it's probably NOT worth the investment on a purely monetary basis.
If you shoot >100 and definitely >200 or 300 rounds per year, it will pay for itself ESPECIALLY as lead become more expensive to buy and harder to scrounge.
Like MOST hobbies, economics really aren't part of the equation. Do it because you love it, enjoy it, and don't worry about the nickles and dimes - probably small peanuts compared to mortgage/rent, car payments, grocery bills, etc.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on September 16, 2009, 01:27:31 PM
r/
MM