Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Lastmohecken on September 07, 2009, 10:04:27 AM

Title: Does it hurt to use gun oil on the bore of a Muzzleloader?
Post by: Lastmohecken on September 07, 2009, 10:04:27 AM: It seems there are different schools of thought on this, and I would like to get to the bottom of it.

I have read that one should never use a gun oil on the bore of a ML, but instead use something like bore butter, or something made out of bear fat, you name it, etc.

What is the real truth? Does a barrel need to be seasoned with (insert here what ever you want) etc.? Or will a light coat of regular gun oil, after cleaning be just as good?
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Post by: R.M. on September 07, 2009, 10:11:15 AM: Forget the seasoning thing. Your barrel is made from steel, not iron like a frypan. By all means use petroleum to protect your bore. Just clean it out before shooting it.
Of course, every shooter has his own thoughts on this, and we all think ours is the only right one, so with experience, you will form your own, just like we have.
Your gun is just like a woman, no two are alike.
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Post by: AxelP on September 07, 2009, 03:05:46 PM: I do not use petrol oils on my black powder bores... there are plenty of non-petrol rust preventatives that work as well or better. Ballistoll is my #1 favorite with Lehigh Valley Lube a second.

I also use a bear oil olive oil and beeswax mixture that works ok in the field.

Axe
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Post by: melsdad on September 08, 2009, 01:58:38 PM: Ballistoll is what I use also. I have used hoppes #9 in the past with no negative effects to accuracy or bore condition. When I first got into shooting black powder I used bore butter. Never again will that gunk touch my barrel. My gun would not group with that stuff on a patch. And as R.M said this is Steel, not cast iron. No seasoning of a barrel is even possible. There is a member on here who may chime in. A man at Thompson Center told him directly, "never use bore butter in the bore of your muzzleloader"
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Post by: cb on September 08, 2009, 02:53:20 PM: Quote from: "AxelP"
I do not use petrol oils on my black powder bores... there are plenty of non-petrol rust preventatives that work as well or better. Ballistoll is my #1 favorite with Lehigh Valley Lube a second.

I also use a bear oil olive oil and beeswax mixture that works ok in the field.

Axe
Just to keep the facts straight - Ballistol is a petroleum based product - it is basically a HIGHLY refined mineral oil with alcohol added - see the MSDS for full disclosure........
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Post by: AxelP on September 08, 2009, 03:17:16 PM: I think the key is that ballistol is water soluble and that is is a very good rust preventative... those two aspects make it ideal for BP cleaning and bore protection. I have never had Ballistol react to burnt blackpowder like petrol based solvents can...

Axe
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Post by: Lastmohecken on September 08, 2009, 09:27:29 PM: Where does one buy Ballistol?
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Post by: Riley/MN on September 08, 2009, 09:35:29 PM: Quote from: "Lastmohecken"
Where does one buy Ballistol?

Depends on where you are... I looked all over southern Minnesota looking for it. The local gun shops all told me nobody wants it, here, buy this...

Then I walked into our local hardware store and they had a case on the shelf. They also had a gallon can of it, but the cost was prohibitive to me. I picked up a few of the spray cans.
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Post by: Two Steps on September 08, 2009, 09:43:36 PM: I order it from Kitty Hawk, NC. (Washington Trading Company).
http://www.ballistol.com/ (http://www.ballistol.com/)
Al
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Post by: Captchee on September 08, 2009, 10:41:23 PM: Iron barrels IMO do season .
Steel barrels IMO not really .
So It depends on what you have .
Anymore seasoning really means wearing in and smoothing out .

As to what you use . The only thing I recommend staying way clear of is bore butter . Its not to bad for the outside . But not for the inside . IMO anyway .

Now in my iron barrel the only thing that touches that bore is none petroleum based oils .
Now my smoothbore , which has a modern steel barrel I clean and treat the very same way I do my center fire shotguns
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Post by: mossie on September 12, 2009, 06:45:12 AM: A good gun oil is the best rust prevention product to use in a steel barrel. Just swab it out with denatured alcohol before you load. I protect the bores of my muzzleloaders just like any centerfire or modern gun---with oil. It has been proven in many tests to prevent rust better than anything. I prefer an oil called Gun Foil; but often use Rem Oil as well. It's not as good as Gun Foil in my opinion.
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Post by: snake eyes on September 12, 2009, 09:00:29 AM: mossie,
When it comes to rust prevention I will stay with Rem Oil.Has
not failed for me yet.I use Moose snot to lube.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on September 12, 2009, 10:57:17 AM: FWIW; I would like to share my thoughts on this subject since the use of oil and lube has been cussed and discussed since I got my first Muzzleloader over 55 years ago.

My interest in Muzzleloaders has waxed and waned over the last five decades, but when I got "real interested" in shooting muzzleloaders, sometime in the late 1960's...early 1970's, there was simply not enough information available.
Most folks, myself included, relied on some local expert to tell us what, and what not, to do.

Of course, at the time, there was no Internet and darn few books dedicated solely to the use of Black Powder firearms, so the owners of such books as The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle by Ned Roberts, and The Kentucky Rifle by John G.W. Dillin, became the subject matter experts overnight....great books, both of 'em, but the experts created from simply reading these books has left something to be desired.

However, once again according to Ned Roberts, other than these two books, nothing had been published in the United States since 1848....

Long before many of us older folks even got started in the game, technology had already provided the world with a modern steel and the "traditional" metal used in barrel making was a thing of the past.

As Captchee so aptly pointed out, modern day Steel and the Iron used in the past, require different treatments and herein lies the heart of this age-old discussion.

The two great books mentioned above dealt mostly with guns and barrels that were available from the days when iron barrels were still used, seasoning was a very viable term, and "oil" meant rendered Bear Fat or Sperm Oil....almost exclusively.

Going back 50 years, I think we can easily see how the modern or new and the old became intermingled.
What with most written references of the day being directed one way, ie toward older barrels, while we were in fact dealing with the new, more modern barrels.
Also, going back fifty years, it was that thought at the time that if you read it in black & white...it was a fact!

Soooo, in view of all the above ramblings, I believe, very strongly, that today's modern made guns do require oil for a preservative and rust inhibitor.
I do not believe we should avoid "petroleum based" products, as long as it is removed before shooting the firearm.

Patch lube is a hoss of a different color as the properties of Black Powder itself has not changed that much.

Just my thoughts.

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Lastmohecken on September 12, 2009, 05:04:08 PM: OK, so bore butter is bad. And I tend to believe it myself, as I have been using it, thinking it was the right thing to do, but my accuracy has not been very good for sometime in my current crop of ML's that I have been using for several years, and maybe accuracy started slipping away, now that I look at it, about the time I started using bore butter.

So, I am curious, why is bore butter bad?
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Post by: vermontfreedom on September 12, 2009, 09:43:22 PM: used to use only wonder lube/bore butter to 'protect' after thorough cleaning and drying a Lyman .50 and started 'protecting' my Rice .54 bore with same. Seemed to do fine, but never liked the brown color after wiping - suspect it was not rust but rather the vegetable fats/oils in it going rancid.

have since switched to Birchwood Casey's "Barricade" after thorough cleaning and drying. Will run a patch of it through the bore and external metal parts every month or so if not shot. No problems of any kind. Usually only dry patch bore once or twice and wipe down pan and frizzen before shooting to remove residue.

To protect lock 'innard', after thorough cleaning and drying, treat with very light drops here and there of Barricade followed by extremely light modern gun oil (I prefer Benelli).

Dislike using Rem Oil or anything with teflon in it for MLs.
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Post by: Bruce Bogart on September 12, 2009, 11:52:28 PM: Petro or nonPetro, just make sure you store muzzle down so you don't stain your stock or buttplate. You all know what I mean.
Bruce
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Post by: rickevans on September 15, 2009, 09:45:08 AM: I too would like to know why Bore Butter (after just buying a tube of it...) is not well liked among this community?
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Post by: Captchee on September 15, 2009, 04:35:45 PM: basicly becouse it dries out .
it also leaves a nasty layer in the bore that takes for ever to clean out while at the same time doing a poor job of protecting the bore
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Post by: mark davidson on September 17, 2009, 09:15:23 AM: OK, I'm still wet behind the ears: I have been using bore butter inside my custom guns cause that is what is on the shelf at Wall Mart and most local gun shops for MLers. What is wrong with bore butter as a protectant after cleaning? I will gladly switch to something else but I would like to know what the ill effects of bore butter are. I use pre lubed patches from TOW and my accuracy is incredible so I am not messing with that patch lube issue since I got something that works really well. However the bore butter issue is really making me wonder. Help a newbie out and explain the bore butter thing. :-)
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Post by: sse on September 17, 2009, 09:24:48 AM: I've been using it for a long time, but I have to say recently, I've been seeing a bit of orange when I go to clean up the residue before going to the range.

For those that use a petroleum based product, or anything else for that matter, in which you need to clean the stuff out before shooting, what product and what method do you use to clean out the bore? Thanks.
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Post by: Bruce Bogart on September 17, 2009, 12:19:17 PM: I use simple green and water. Dry with a couple patches, then use some alcohol to dry, followed by either Ballistol or Marvels Mystery Oil (my preference). The MMO doen't smell like stinky feet
Bruce
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Post by: Riley/MN on September 17, 2009, 12:47:34 PM: I am starting to wander from bore butter... I don't think it is rust, but I hate pulling brown patches out of my bore... Get it "really clean", then take a ballistol soaked patch and it pulls more brown out...

If I have been shooting a lot, I normally do the hot water in a bucket thing, sometimes with just a touch of soap...

If I've just fired a shot or two, I like Bruce's method of diluted simple green followed by denatured alcohol, then ballistol.

Always hit it with the alcohol before loading...