Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: mark davidson on September 11, 2009, 09:27:51 AM

Title: Shot falls out; help please?
Post by: mark davidson on September 11, 2009, 09:27:51 AM

My over shot cards must be too small. The shot pours out the end if I tilt the barrel of my fowler down. Ya'll know I am pretty new to this so please be patient and help a feller out a bit. Do I measure my barrel inside diameter and order a different size card? I read another thread where one of you said to bite the card somehow I assume to spread it out a bit?  Can I lay the cards on a table and hammer them a little to spread them like flattening a lead round ball for flint wrap? I have a killer load combo that patterns well; I just can't keep the shot down the bore if the barrel is ever tilted. Thanks in advance cause I know this is probably a dumb question. :-)

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Post by: Fletcher on September 11, 2009, 10:11:21 AM

I your barrell is straight bore, your cards should fit just a bit tight at the muzzle.  If the barrel has a choke (my s x s is both modifed), then you need a card that is very tight at the muzzle so it will seat over the shot charge down in the tube.

However, I use standard 12 ga powder, felt and shot cards for my s x s and for my .62 smoothie I use standard 20 ga parts and all seem to stay put as desired.

What is your bore size???

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Post by: Bigsmoke on September 11, 2009, 11:06:13 AM

the thing about biting the card is to nip a little piece out of it to release air when you push it down the bore.  Else you are just compressing air and it pops up when you pull the rod out.

What Fletcher said about fit sounds right.  yeah, you could measure your muzzle and tell a wad supplier what size you have and he will know what size you need.

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Post by: mark davidson on September 11, 2009, 12:28:51 PM

My fowler is a 12 guage (12bore?). I have not put the calipers in the end to see what it measures at the muzzle but I will maybe this evening. I ordered 12 guage cards from TOW but they are a little loose and let the shot pour out. I may try mashing them with a hammer to increase diameter and make a tighter fit.

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Post by: Riley/MN on September 11, 2009, 12:53:48 PM

I s'pose you got a bunch of 'em too, huh? I know several guys that use 11 ga cards in their 12 ga just because they like the tighter fit. I haven't had any problem with 12 ga cards in my 12 ga. It would be interesting to see what your bbl mikes...and the cards, too (could be a batch came out "scant")

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Post by: mark davidson on September 11, 2009, 01:23:12 PM

Riley,  Yeah, I got a whole batch of um! :-) They were fairly cheap though and work fine over powder just not so fine over shot. I don't mind ordering some more bigger ones if that is what I need to do. Guess I better mic the barrel now like I should have done to begin with. I ordered my stuff before the gun was finished so I would be ready to shoot when it was completed. Guess I got the cart before the horse a little. :-)

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Post by: Gambia on September 11, 2009, 03:14:42 PM

Use a 11 bore  1/16 card wad if after a few shots and a coked barrel  you may find it difficult to ram home the wad ,to overcome this use some spittle on the wad this will end the problem.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

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Post by: Spot on September 12, 2009, 10:22:07 PM

Hey there Mark Davidson,

Nothing wrong with getting a little excited, I wouldn't say that means you got the cart before the horse.  

You have plenty of options, and some good ones have already been presented here.  One that hasn't, but is certainly traditional, would be nesting and green leaves.

You've probably heard about hornet's nesting, but regular old wasp's nests that you see hanging off the side of your house works just as well.

Or you can pull a handfull of green leaves off a nearby bush; as long as you make a tight wad, it'll keep the shot from rolling out. You might just add a little of this on top of what you're already using as a stop-gap measure.

Now, I do recommend miking your bore and finding out what you really need. Bore sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and very often vary within the manufacturer too, so you really do have to find out what you have. But you definitely don't have to stop shooting until you get it all figured out and receive the correct stuff.

Congratulations on your new gun. I hope you have lots of fun with it like I do mine.

Spot

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Post by: mark davidson on September 14, 2009, 09:25:49 AM

Spot,  Thanks for the tip. I had heard about wasps nest before and grass and leaves too. I was pretty hesitant to put anything else in front of the shot for fear it would somehow blow the pattern. The little card falls away and does not interfere with the pattern much if at all. I will have to do some pattern tests and see how the extra material affects the density of the pattern if at all. It is fun and addictive: I can already see that. :-)

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Post by: WhiteBlanket on September 14, 2009, 10:30:45 AM

I use 1"x2" bits of brown shopping bag, folded once.  Works great for me in my 20 gauge Fusil de Chasse.  Seem to work fine...

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Post by: chuckbob on November 11, 2009, 10:01:44 PM

I just use Wasp nest. Never had a problem with shot falling out.

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Post by: rwiliff on November 12, 2009, 07:34:18 PM

Have you got a shotgun tip on the ramrod or a ball tip, I learned that one the hard way.

Warmest Regards,
Robert Iliff
New Mexico

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Post by: mark davidson on November 13, 2009, 09:10:35 AM

Robert,  I use a standard 20 guage cleaning jag on the end of my ramrod on all my guns. I like to spit patch between shots so I just keep the jag on the end of the ramrod and the ramrod is cut off to allow the jag to seat close to flush under the muzzle. The jag is very close to bore diameter so I do not think the overshot card is seating crooked or at an angle allowing the shot to escape. I just think the card is too loose or too small in diameter.

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Post by: hawkeye on November 13, 2009, 12:09:48 PM

I use 11g overshot cards for my Bess and 24g cards in my 28 Bore canoe gun. Actual bore sized cards never held tight for me either.

You could make paper tubes to hold pre-measured shot and after pouring the shot down the bore, use the paper to hold it in place. Kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

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Post by: rwiliff on November 13, 2009, 06:21:35 PM

OK Mark,  sounds like you need a tighter wad.

I bulged a barrel using a rod diameter tip to seat a wad over a ball on my first smoothy.  That won't happen again!  

Warmest Regards.
Robert

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Post by: Loyalist Dave on November 13, 2009, 06:26:44 PM

I have shot cartridges made up of newsprint, filled with 7/8 oz of shot, and then greased that fit into the tube.  I ram them down whole on top of the powder, and they stay put, but rupture upon firing.  No worries and nice and fast on a reload.

LD

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Post by: jbullard1 on November 13, 2009, 06:32:07 PM

The easiest I've found is wasp nest
Just ram a chunk down the barrel.
I shoot a very heavy powder charge and shot load in my 12 ga flinter BraveHeart and only use wasp nest for over powder and over shot wadding.
I don't make many shots on a rabbit or turkey hunt so I take the time to wet swab the bore a few times after every 2 shots.

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Post by: Riley/MN on November 13, 2009, 06:45:22 PM

Just that easy, huh? Tear off a chunk and ram it down? I'm gonna get me a wasp nest and try that.

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Post by: jbullard1 on November 13, 2009, 07:16:37 PM

Quote from: "Riley/MN"

Just that easy, huh? Tear off a chunk and ram it down? I'm gonna get me a wasp nest and try that.

YEP Just that easy just be sure the wasp's are gone
And when wet swabbing I wet the cleaning patch in a mudhole
 

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Post by: jim m on December 08, 2009, 10:35:41 PM

dang, I tried that wasp nest thing and it really pissed the little buggers off.  :shock:  ok I was just being a smart arse but couldn't resist. had to to to 19ga over shot cards in my 20ga

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Post by: hankaye on January 14, 2010, 01:34:14 AM

Think the easiest way would be ta not let yer muzzle dip below horizontal...


Sorry, couldn't help myself

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Post by: SimonG on January 14, 2010, 11:07:00 AM

Quote from: "jim m"

dang, I tried that wasp nest thing and it really "Censored Word Deleted" the little buggers off.  :shock:  ok I was just being a smart arse but couldn't resist. had to to to 19ga over shot cards in my 20ga

you've got to learn to load faster

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Post by: Shawnee Mike on February 06, 2010, 11:53:43 AM

Osayo all,
Like some of you, I do not use all that cards and cushion stuff.  2 reasons... 1 I doubt the old timers did, and 2  I'm cheap.
  I use a wadded up cleaning patch for both over powder and over shot.
  They work great, dont fall out, pull easy, I can use them to clean and swab and most of all...have not blown the pattern as yet.
  Try simple, You might like it.

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Post by: Rick Villerot on February 09, 2010, 01:12:48 AM

When that feller said he "bulged" the barrel what exactly did he mean ?

I almost got my smoothbore 20 ga done, should be taking her out this weekend. '

What would be good for rabbits ? # 6 & how much ? Should I just make a powder type measure for the shot ?

I'am new to the whole smootbore thang, I think I'll try Shawnee mikes idea with the patches.

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Post by: Roaddog on February 09, 2010, 06:37:51 AM

I would start with the same shot measure as powder. If that don't work, go up in small amounts till you have a good patron- no hole in the center.

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Post by: followed by on February 09, 2010, 11:05:33 AM

RickV. I use 65gr-3f and 80gr of #6 shot for most all of my rabbit killin' in my 20 ga. English fowler.

Title: shot
Post by: Shawnee Mike on February 09, 2010, 08:19:24 PM

Quote from: "Rick Villerot"

When that feller said he "bulged" the barrel what exactly did he mean ?

I almost got my smoothbore 20 ga done, should be taking her out this weekend. '

What would be good for rabbits ? # 6 & how much ? Should I just make a powder type measure for the shot ?

I'am new to the whole smootbore thang, I think I'll try Shawnee mikes idea with the patches.

   When one talks of a bulged barrel, they are talking of a situation where the load has separated from the powder charge and when fired caused a expansion of the barrel to make a bulge.  The bulge is a damaged section that "ALMOST" burst.  The barrel is toast at that point.

  Like was said 6-7 should be great for small critters.  Just use a good charge so you get the penetration.
 
  Try the balled patches.  May work really well for you.  I love it.

  My load in my 20 bore is 80 grns Fffg and same weight shot.  I use the same charger to measure both shot and powder.